What rifle do i need? -- UPDATE, RIFLE CHOSEN!

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32_d3gr33s

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Well, Im finished with my latest project, so its time to start a new one. Im not too familiar with rifles, i more of a pistol kind of guy. Heres what im aiming to get...

*500 yard standard shooting distance (possibly a little farther, but dont really have anywhere to shoot more than 500)
*Manageable recoil. Something a 13yo girl, and 11yo (both with very little rifle experience) could handle
*under $800 without optics (slightly flexible, but prefer to stay under)
*Bolt Action (i just really want a bolt gun)
*Just for target shooting. I dont hunt, nor do i plan to anytime soon
*Easily re-loadable ammo. (I reload for .223 right now)

What suggestions do you have?

I have an AR, and im not totally against the idea of building another upper, but would rather have a bolt action gun.
 
Sounds like a heavy-barrel, fast-twist .223 would do just fine for you.

Savage makes some nice ones at a good price point in their Varmint, Target, and LE series.
 
223 is just fine for target shooting out to 600 yards in my experience. I see that you are in Michigan, so I doubt you will be dealing with winds like they do in the desert (which would make shooting the little 223 at such distance a challenge to say the least).

I agree with eldon on this one. Since you mentioned you aren't very experienced with rifles, let me break down his logic for you.

The heavier barrel will be stiffer than a lighter one. This will help you achieve greater accuracy. The reason eldon suggests a faster-twist (like 1:8 or faster) is because this will enable you to shoot heavier bullets with a greater degree of accuracy. Basically, a heavier bullet takes more time to get spinning than a lighter one would. Having a faster twist means the heavy bullets (69gr+) will be properly stabilized for maximum accuracy.

The reason you want to use heavier bullets is because they will have a higher ballistic-coefficient. In a nut shell, this means they will be more aerodynamic and therefore will maintain velocity better. You want your bullets to be moving as fast-as-possible because once they go subsonic they can lose stability and accuracy can suffer. However, people shoot targets VERY far away with their 45-70 single-shots...go figure.

Finally, Savage is known for making very accurate rifles at a modest cost. Normally I would recommend a CZ rifle, but their slower twist-rate in their 223 models makes them slightly inadequate for pushing the 223 to its limits.

Good luck!
 
Thanks for the input. I was looking at the Remington 700 varmint, but thats a 1 in 12 twist. Brownells sells a 1 in 9 twist barrel, but, thats another 250 bucks. looks like the savage are similar in price, and come in the 1 in 9 twist. Ill have to go give them a feel this weekend. I did check out CZ's website, and they also have a 223 with 1 in 9 twist. Should i try to find one with a faster twist rate? the only rifle so far faster than 1 in 9 i found was a savage 1 in 7 at 1000 bucks.
 
6.5 grendel.. made from 7.62x39 brass and is an 800 yard rifle in a .223 length action
 
The_Next_Generation said:
...The heavier barrel will be stiffer than a lighter one. This will help you achieve greater accuracy...
Click to expand...

Barrel quality is more important than barrel profile. A thicker barrel isn't always more accurate than a thinner one but it does handle heat better.

32_d3gr33s has a 13 & 11 year old and a heavy profile barrel would be awkward for them to handle

...The reason eldon suggests a faster-twist (like 1:8 or faster) is because this will enable you to shoot heavier bullets with a greater degree of accuracy...
Click to expand...

Longer bullets usually need more RPM to stabilize. A longer, light bullet likes a tighter twist than a shorter, heavy bullet

...Basically, a heavier bullet takes more time to get spinning than a lighter one would...
Click to expand...

If you launch a heavy bullet at the same velocity from the same barrel as a light bullet, it will be spinning at the same RPM and take about the same time to travel down the bore

...The reason you want to use heavier bullets is because they will have a higher ballistic-coefficient...
Click to expand...

Weight has nothing to do with ballistic coefficient. BC is determined by bullet shape

...once they go subsonic they can lose stability and accuracy can suffer...
Click to expand...

Bullets travelling at subsonic speeds are stable and very accurate. That's why match grade 22 rimfire ammo is subsonic. Bullets travelling at supersonic speeds are stable and very accurate. Bullets traveling at transsonic speeds however, are buffeted by the turbulence created when the supersonic airflow around the bullet clashes with the subsonic airflow around the bullet
 
A Nice M28/30 tward 450$ or, M-39 Finnish Mosin Nagant. between 300-400$ can get you a nearly new rifle, built to Finn accuracy specs.
You can load you own and get somewhere with it. open sites are good out to 800 yards on an oil barrel sized target.

The exra weight of the Finn Mosins stock really helps in the recoil management, and my 13 year old girl shoots here with no problems for a couple year now.

Perfecting the trigger is very easy, the Finns did their quite well, and the original wood stock is set up for accurate shooting, as issued.

An M28/76 for match grade target shooting would be around 800$, as well, there are quite a few M28/76's that have a scope mount on them.are also Finnish variations and are consitterd some of the best, and are on target at the range and in range and on target for your budget.
 
Last edited:
ArchAngelCD said:
If it were me I would choose the 6.5mm of your choice in a Savage rifle w/AccuTrigger...
Click to expand...
i wish savage offered a 6.5 grendel option on 223 length actions, or 6.5x47mm for 308 length actions

does savage make a shorter, lighter action for 223 rifles or is it the same short action they use for 308 length?
 
Any commercial rifle and cartridge will get you to 500 yards if you have solid rifle shooting skills.

Get a Savage Axis package from you local outdoor store for $275 and put better glass on it. Its availible in 243, and comes from the factory with a decent adjustable trigger - anyone can shoot that.

Invest the rest of your money in ammo and reloading supplies.
 
I have a 6.5 Swede, one of those sporterized by Kimber. I've restocked it, added a Bold trigger and a K2.5 scope and it's a fun rifle to shoot and very handy hunting rifle.

For accuracy, you have to seat the bullets way out, though -- the barrels are throated for a 160 grain bullet, and it likes its bullets close to the origin of the rifling.
 
Savage makes some nice ones at a good price point in their Varmint, Target, and LE series.
Click to expand...

Here's my +1. I shoot a 10 Precision Carbine .223 at a local clubs 500 yd. mid-range prone matches. Another fellow shoots a model 12 varmint. I think both rifles fall within your price point (mine cost about $790 new at the LGS). Both guns are very accurate and can give the high dollar guys a run for their money.

Downside is the 1:9 twist which might not stabilize the heaviest bullets. Mine will shoot 77 MK's which do fine at 500 yds. I like the accutrigger as well.

Laphroaig
 
I spent more money than you're talking about but this reasoning is exactly why I bought my Swede.
Problem: it is a reload only proposition, mostly...

Go online and get educated re: BC or forget about it as you wish, just buy some VLD ammo for the 6.5 and have a hoot of a time!

Enjoy,
Greg
 
A 243, because it's common, because it's easy to shoot well, because recoil is almost nonexistent, because it's extremely accurate, because with today's bullet selection, it's versatility is unmatched.
 
My thinking would run with a .308 Winchester, 7mm-08 Remington or .260 Remington. There is also the .243 Winchester as has been mentioned, I just prefer the first three. That said there is no shortage of other cartridges that will reach out and touch at 500 yards plus for target shooting.

As to the rifle? Since you mention Bolt Action I happen to like the older Remington 700 BDL and older Winchester 70 guns but again, like the cartridges, just a me thing. Look around and see what trips your trigger.

Ron
 
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