What scope is best?
- Thread starter Spike89
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jcwit
member
This is a joke? Right.
I'd say go with a leupold, they make a nice mill dot Mark AR 3-9x40 scope that my customers have been more then happy with. At $350 they are hard beat with the bullet drop comp build in from the start. Nikon also makes a few very nice scopes in the 3-400 range,we have never had one come back yet.
pat86323
Member
i say before you get too carried away buying any of those have a look at the Vortex scopes. They blow all but the nikon and leupold straight out of the running. I hate nikon after trying to get warranty work done once. I would take a serious look at leupold and Vortex. Cameralandny.com has some good deals on vortex. I have the crossfire 3-9 and love it to death.
Bill_Rights
Member
I couldn't agree with jcwit more:
Thank God there are decent scopes that are cheaper, however.
OK, so I voted for Bushnell, as in the "Banner" series. I just received my 3.5-10 x 36mm .17 Super AO Riflescope Matte Multi-X 713510 for $98 from Optics Planet (free shipping) to go on a $200 .17 HMR rifle (but it can go on any rifle). I haven't zeroed it and shot it yet, but it looks and feels pretty solid and has a bunch of features. See here http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=363725 for some of my shopping and features. And this http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6445374&postcount=17 has a photo and description of the bullet drop compensation (BDC) reticle system (not yet installed). It comes with BDC reticle scales for 5 calibers and rounds and there are dozens more available from Bushnell.
For $100 bucks, I don't think you can go wrong. And it's made in Korea, which is way mo' better than Made in China, in my book.
To which the OP replied:
Spike, Maybe you should have asked in your poll "What's the best scope under $200?" if you don't have $300 to drop on a scope. This is a pretty high-end forum (or at least, high road forum), and some guys don't get serious about scopes until they cost 2x or 3x the price of the rifle (as in scope costs > $2,000). To start talking "best scope" in the world at under $300 IS a total joke.
Thank God there are decent scopes that are cheaper, however.
OK, so I voted for Bushnell, as in the "Banner" series. I just received my 3.5-10 x 36mm .17 Super AO Riflescope Matte Multi-X 713510 for $98 from Optics Planet (free shipping) to go on a $200 .17 HMR rifle (but it can go on any rifle). I haven't zeroed it and shot it yet, but it looks and feels pretty solid and has a bunch of features. See here http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=363725 for some of my shopping and features. And this http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6445374&postcount=17 has a photo and description of the bullet drop compensation (BDC) reticle system (not yet installed). It comes with BDC reticle scales for 5 calibers and rounds and there are dozens more available from Bushnell.
For $100 bucks, I don't think you can go wrong. And it's made in Korea, which is way mo' better than Made in China, in my book.
The thing about scopes is that you get what you pay for( most of the time) a $150-200 6-40 50mm is dirt cheap and probelly the same quality when used on a centerfire rifle. 100-200 scopes are fine for rimfire if you stick with a reputable company that made it with that use in mind, stick the same scope on a 270 or some other big bore type rifle and it probelly will come apart in the rings.
Do your research and avoid "Cheap Brands" an extra $50 goes a long ways in low end scopes. The Same $50 wouldnt cover the tax on my Mark 4 Leupolds so.....
Do your research and avoid "Cheap Brands" an extra $50 goes a long ways in low end scopes. The Same $50 wouldnt cover the tax on my Mark 4 Leupolds so.....
ranger335v
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"Which Scope is best?" Swarovski. Night Force. Zeiss' upper end.
We may not always get what we pay for but we will never get more than we pay for.
We may not always get what we pay for but we will never get more than we pay for.
pat86323
Member
you can get more then you pay for.....i dont know why everyone is so anti vortex. They are every bit as nice as nikons or mid range leupolds they just cost alot less. Alot of people in northern az are starting to recognize them as being quite good. I am getting ready to put a 130 dollar scope on a weatherby rifle and dont feel bad about it at all. Give them a looksee.
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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It's really unanswerable since there are MANY lines within each brand, with vastly differing quality.
BUT, having said that, it's safe to say that both Nikon and Leupold on your less are all *generally* good - they don't offer any crap lines. Generally speaking of those two, I believe the Nikons to be of the better average value for the money, in all lines. I'm a Nikon man, with a smattering of Bushnell Elites, Leupolds, Sightrons, Trijicons, and Burris Signatures.
BUT, having said that, it's safe to say that both Nikon and Leupold on your less are all *generally* good - they don't offer any crap lines. Generally speaking of those two, I believe the Nikons to be of the better average value for the money, in all lines. I'm a Nikon man, with a smattering of Bushnell Elites, Leupolds, Sightrons, Trijicons, and Burris Signatures.
375shooter
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The last 6 scopes I bought were Leupold's and the next one will probably be as well. I like them because they are lightweight, compact, good looking, have generous eye relief and a great warranty. I find the high end Bushnell's are quite good as well although heavier. Don't like Tasco. Have no experience with Simmons or Nikon, but have seen good reviews for Nikon.
jmorris
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I just read your other post on your scope loosing zero. If I buy a cheap scope for a .22 I first zero it on a 45-75 I have to "beat it up". If it holds zero on that rifle it's good to go, if not it is returned. On the dirt cheap scopes you might rattle 3-4 to get one that will hold up.
Sheepdog1968
Member
This is one of those never ending discussions. I went through the same process of trying to decide. I went with Leupold for several rifles. I am very happy with them. They have a lifetime guarantee. If they break, send it in and the will fix it. I was talking to one person who sent in his 20+ year old scope and they took great care of him. It's made the in USA and that has some appeal to me. I don't know if it's the absolulte best, but their scopes are either four out of five stars or five out of five stars. You can't go wrong and won't be dissapointed with it.
KodiakBeer
member
I've had bad results with Tasco and Bushnell. As far as I'm concerned, they're junk. If somebody gave me one, I'd throw it away. Stay away from Tasco and Bushnell - I once ran a gun shop and it got pretty tiresome dealing with customers whose hunt was spoiled because their scope leaked and fogged up out in the middle of nowhere.
I've had mixed results with Simmons. One Simmons I personally owned held up for years and years, hunting in some very rough conditions, others... not so much.
I've never had bad results with a Leupold, even their low-end scopes are fairly good. I haven't owned a Nikon, but they feel tough and the optics are good.
I think the optics on all scopes today are good enough for the task. I'm really more concerned with durability.
My favorite scope is Burris, simply because they (in my opinion) are the most rugged scope out there.
I've had mixed results with Simmons. One Simmons I personally owned held up for years and years, hunting in some very rough conditions, others... not so much.
I've never had bad results with a Leupold, even their low-end scopes are fairly good. I haven't owned a Nikon, but they feel tough and the optics are good.
I think the optics on all scopes today are good enough for the task. I'm really more concerned with durability.
My favorite scope is Burris, simply because they (in my opinion) are the most rugged scope out there.
Bill_Rights
Member
Pat86323,
By the way, I am pround of you guys in AZ, enforcing Federal immigration law. As with almost all laws, it is essentially 100% up to the states and localities to do the upfront enforcement legwork.
I am not anti-Vortex. True, I had never heard of them before you mentioned them. I will look at them, but please give some useful web links. Where are they manufactured?
By the way, I am pround of you guys in AZ, enforcing Federal immigration law. As with almost all laws, it is essentially 100% up to the states and localities to do the upfront enforcement legwork.
rustysragsinc
Member
Leupold's are the best in my opinion. A close second would be Schmidt & Bender (high dollar). You can't go wrong with a Burris scope, but the Leupold would be my 1st choice. Good Luck!
modifiedbrowning
Member
Vortex scopes are made in the Phillipines.
greyling22
Member
take a look at the new redfield revolutions. made by leupold, should be basically a vx1 for less.
other contenders: vortex, burris, swift
other contenders: vortex, burris, swift
jayjaypunisher
Member
I'd go with tasco as a field FUFU after the internals fell out on their own, I agree with aforementioned posts, we need more of a guidline to go off of like "best scope for under 300 bucks" in which I'd say the Leupold Mark AR line or the bushnell 3200 series, or the SWFA SS at $299 all great scopes!
Arkansas Paul
Member
There were actually votes for Tasco and Simmons. That's good stuff.
Don't get me wrong, I've had Tascos and still have a BSA. Not making fun of anyone who has them.
I also have a Nikon and a Leupold that are in a totally different ballpark. And they're the cheap models. A Prostaff and a Rifleman.
Don't get me wrong, I've had Tascos and still have a BSA. Not making fun of anyone who has them.
I also have a Nikon and a Leupold that are in a totally different ballpark. And they're the cheap models. A Prostaff and a Rifleman.
I disagree with the last comment. The Prostaff may be better I can't comment because I haven't used one. However, I've used two Simmons scopes as well as had 2 Leupold VX-I's which are a step above the Rifleman line. The Simmons have held up better and longer. Both Leupolds I had to send in for repair for failing to hold zero after some use.
During daylight I couldn't tell a difference between the clarity of the Simmons, a cheap Tasco I've tried, or the Leupold. They all looked fine but I didn't see one being better than the other. I don't need good low light performance as it's not legal to hunt here at night. However, just for the heck of it I did decide to compare them at night to see how they looked. Now I can't do a professional test or anything so it's just what looked clearer to me. I used a Leupold 3x9x40, a Leupold 2x7x33, a Simmons 3x9x40, and a Simmons 3x9x32. I looked down the hallway of the house at night at a red led on the phone base. With both I could see more with my eye than I could see through the scopes. With the Leupolds I could see the red led but that was it. I couldn't really see anything around it. The 3x9x40mm was slightly better but it still wasn't much better. With both of the Simmons I could not only see the LED but I could see the wall and phone charger where it was slightly lit by the LED. I could see this with my naked eye too, it's just that I couldn't see it through the Leupold scope.
To top that off while mentioning I've had both Leupolds repaired I've never had either of the Simmons fail on me.
Now while I do say that and will say I don't see the advantage to the Leupolds at all at least not these low end Leupolds, there are other scopes in the same price range that will blow the Simmons and Leupolds out of the water in clarity both in daylight and low light.
If you can spend $200 or so the Burris Fullfield II is a great option, the Vortex Diamondback also seems to be a great option, as does the Nikon Team Primo's. Then for slightly more you can get a Bushnell Elite 4200. All of those scopes make the Simmons, Tasco's, and low end Leupolds look like pure crap and will make you appreciate a good scope. I would probably go with one of those if I was going to spend $2-300. However, if I only had $50-80 I think the Simmons are a decent choice for the price and certainly better than open sights in most cases. I would also buy a Simmons before I would buy another Leupold VX-I or even a Leupold Rifleman. Unless I got an amazing deal like I did on the second VX-I I bought.
Another issue I did see with one of the Simmons I've used is the adjustment was marked as one click equaling 1/4" at 100 yards of movement. I moved it two clicks and it moved at least an inch if not 1.5" at 100 yards. So the clicks didn't seem to be as they were labeled. The other Simmons doesn't seem to have this issue or if it does it's no where near as noticeable. I've also used a Tasco that seemed to adjust as marked. It was just that one Simmons that didn't and it may have just been a fluke or something. I turned it two clicks. Saw where it shot and turned it back one click and started hitting dead center so never adjusted it again. It was already sighted in very closely before I shot it. This does seem to be one of the things you give up in a cheap scope from some of what I've read. However, once getting it adjusted they seem to stay zero. So as long as you are like most hunters and set your scope and leave it you should be fine. If you plan to be adjusting it often you probably should spend more.
That being said I've never gotten the friction adjustments to adjust like I want them to on the Leupold VX-I line either. In fact I think they are the crappiest adjustments I've ever used so I can't say it's any better at all imo.
Now this is all my opinion and I've not performed any professional tests. However, I suspect that most that have used both will agree with me. I know a friend that's the best shot I know has a Simmons on one of his rifles he loves and sold me my second Leupold VX-I because he didn't like it.
Another friend that is a pretty good shot and used to do a lot of shooting but now mostly just hunts also doesn't use Leupolds. He had an issue with one and since then has had the opinion you are just paying for the name which I think is mostly true. He has several Simmons as well as many others.
I read so much bad about Simmons online but 98% of the people I know locally use them and I only know of one that has had one fail. I know of 3 people who have had Leupolds fail and I only know of 4 that own them. I've also got several friends that have had great luck with the Bushnell Banners. I know a couple guys that like Tasco's but I know several others that don't like them at all and have had issues. Overall, I read online how crappy cheap scopes are but in the real world I don't seem them failing as often as I read about online.
BSA is the one brand that almost everyone I know that's tried one has had issues. It seems to be a cheap scope to avoid. I figure when the guys I know that like Tasco's and Simmons all have had bad experiences with BSA's and think they suck it's probably a good idea to stay away from them since they clearly aren't that picky.
I think we can all agree though it's no Burris, Bushnell Elite, Nikon, or similar but for the price they seem to function okay in most cases at least the ones I've seen have.
During daylight I couldn't tell a difference between the clarity of the Simmons, a cheap Tasco I've tried, or the Leupold. They all looked fine but I didn't see one being better than the other. I don't need good low light performance as it's not legal to hunt here at night. However, just for the heck of it I did decide to compare them at night to see how they looked. Now I can't do a professional test or anything so it's just what looked clearer to me. I used a Leupold 3x9x40, a Leupold 2x7x33, a Simmons 3x9x40, and a Simmons 3x9x32. I looked down the hallway of the house at night at a red led on the phone base. With both I could see more with my eye than I could see through the scopes. With the Leupolds I could see the red led but that was it. I couldn't really see anything around it. The 3x9x40mm was slightly better but it still wasn't much better. With both of the Simmons I could not only see the LED but I could see the wall and phone charger where it was slightly lit by the LED. I could see this with my naked eye too, it's just that I couldn't see it through the Leupold scope.
To top that off while mentioning I've had both Leupolds repaired I've never had either of the Simmons fail on me.
Now while I do say that and will say I don't see the advantage to the Leupolds at all at least not these low end Leupolds, there are other scopes in the same price range that will blow the Simmons and Leupolds out of the water in clarity both in daylight and low light.
If you can spend $200 or so the Burris Fullfield II is a great option, the Vortex Diamondback also seems to be a great option, as does the Nikon Team Primo's. Then for slightly more you can get a Bushnell Elite 4200. All of those scopes make the Simmons, Tasco's, and low end Leupolds look like pure crap and will make you appreciate a good scope. I would probably go with one of those if I was going to spend $2-300. However, if I only had $50-80 I think the Simmons are a decent choice for the price and certainly better than open sights in most cases. I would also buy a Simmons before I would buy another Leupold VX-I or even a Leupold Rifleman. Unless I got an amazing deal like I did on the second VX-I I bought.
Another issue I did see with one of the Simmons I've used is the adjustment was marked as one click equaling 1/4" at 100 yards of movement. I moved it two clicks and it moved at least an inch if not 1.5" at 100 yards. So the clicks didn't seem to be as they were labeled. The other Simmons doesn't seem to have this issue or if it does it's no where near as noticeable. I've also used a Tasco that seemed to adjust as marked. It was just that one Simmons that didn't and it may have just been a fluke or something. I turned it two clicks. Saw where it shot and turned it back one click and started hitting dead center so never adjusted it again. It was already sighted in very closely before I shot it. This does seem to be one of the things you give up in a cheap scope from some of what I've read. However, once getting it adjusted they seem to stay zero. So as long as you are like most hunters and set your scope and leave it you should be fine. If you plan to be adjusting it often you probably should spend more.
That being said I've never gotten the friction adjustments to adjust like I want them to on the Leupold VX-I line either. In fact I think they are the crappiest adjustments I've ever used so I can't say it's any better at all imo.
Now this is all my opinion and I've not performed any professional tests. However, I suspect that most that have used both will agree with me. I know a friend that's the best shot I know has a Simmons on one of his rifles he loves and sold me my second Leupold VX-I because he didn't like it.
Another friend that is a pretty good shot and used to do a lot of shooting but now mostly just hunts also doesn't use Leupolds. He had an issue with one and since then has had the opinion you are just paying for the name which I think is mostly true. He has several Simmons as well as many others.
I read so much bad about Simmons online but 98% of the people I know locally use them and I only know of one that has had one fail. I know of 3 people who have had Leupolds fail and I only know of 4 that own them. I've also got several friends that have had great luck with the Bushnell Banners. I know a couple guys that like Tasco's but I know several others that don't like them at all and have had issues. Overall, I read online how crappy cheap scopes are but in the real world I don't seem them failing as often as I read about online.
BSA is the one brand that almost everyone I know that's tried one has had issues. It seems to be a cheap scope to avoid. I figure when the guys I know that like Tasco's and Simmons all have had bad experiences with BSA's and think they suck it's probably a good idea to stay away from them since they clearly aren't that picky.
I think we can all agree though it's no Burris, Bushnell Elite, Nikon, or similar but for the price they seem to function okay in most cases at least the ones I've seen have.
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