What SD rnds in your .38 spl snub-nosed revolver?
- Thread starter AStone
- Start date
- Status
M38
Member
"Black Hills 148 gr target wadcutter. No, i am not kidding.
C-"
Me too!
C-"
Me too!
Brassman
Member
I guess folks have forgotten about this poll. And I was cheering the FBI load on to victory. Maybe I picked the wrong one to back.
AStone
Member
B'man, I think most who were going to vote have done so already. This little bump may bring in a few more votes, though ... ya never know.
The pattern has been clear from the first page, though: the Speer 135s took an early lead and never relinquished it. Those 158's have been riding in a commanding second place, especially if one combines the data for all 4 158 categories.
Of course, all this data still leaves an interesting question to be discussed: what do they mean?
That is, is the 135 gr Speer chosen most because it really IS the superior round, or is it in the lead because ... well, because it is in the lead (that is, because so many people use it, others think it is a superior round and use it, too)?
Yes, I know that it was designed specifically for snubbie .38s. I understand that. But given all the water under the bridge since it was designed for that purpose, that doesn't necessarily mean
it is still the superior rnd under all conditions.
Now, having opened that particular Pandora's box,
I'm just going to sit back and read.
Nem
The pattern has been clear from the first page, though: the Speer 135s took an early lead and never relinquished it. Those 158's have been riding in a commanding second place, especially if one combines the data for all 4 158 categories.
Of course, all this data still leaves an interesting question to be discussed: what do they mean?
That is, is the 135 gr Speer chosen most because it really IS the superior round, or is it in the lead because ... well, because it is in the lead (that is, because so many people use it, others think it is a superior round and use it, too)?
Yes, I know that it was designed specifically for snubbie .38s. I understand that. But given all the water under the bridge since it was designed for that purpose, that doesn't necessarily mean
it is still the superior rnd under all conditions.
Now, having opened that particular Pandora's box,
I'm just going to sit back and read.
Nem
DawgFvr
Member
Nem...it's all about marketing. That, and availability of the product. Most people shoot what they can get hold of. Cost is also a big factor for some...many have never made it past Wally World's "sale" shelf. Ok...I'm a bit disgruntled that Corbon DPX has not done better on this poll. It is, IMHO, the superior round, albeit, difficult to find and rather spendy. Rifle hunters know about the all-copper Barnes bullets, however, it has only recently come onto the side arm market.
Brassman
Member
Hey Nem,
I was trying to relight the pharr, as some in NC would say, though it probably has gone out. I kept hoping for a surge in the 158gr category, albeit right now I'm still carrying the last of my Federal 110gr non +P's.
I was trying to relight the pharr, as some in NC would say, though it probably has gone out. I kept hoping for a surge in the 158gr category, albeit right now I'm still carrying the last of my Federal 110gr non +P's.
AStone
Member
B'man, I'm glad your struck a fresh match under the pharr.
Might be some momentum left in this bullet yet.
'Specially with you specifying those 110 gr non +P. That's a pretty big leap there, from 110 all the way to 158, bypassing that almighty 135 in the process.
What's your thinking there. If you have confidence in the 110's, is that starting to waver a bit? And what about the 158's is so ... attractive?
I'm NOT being critical of that, however. Far from it. I have the same amount of variation in my own deliberations about which rnds to burn; I can't seem to land on just one that sounds like, "Ah, this is it!".
So, I'm always curious about what other people's decision processes are.
I'm hoping that we'll continue to discuss this. I've seen a lot of data here, but am far from saturated in terms of explanations about "why I use rnd X".
Nem
Might be some momentum left in this bullet yet.
'Specially with you specifying those 110 gr non +P. That's a pretty big leap there, from 110 all the way to 158, bypassing that almighty 135 in the process.
What's your thinking there. If you have confidence in the 110's, is that starting to waver a bit? And what about the 158's is so ... attractive?
I'm NOT being critical of that, however. Far from it. I have the same amount of variation in my own deliberations about which rnds to burn; I can't seem to land on just one that sounds like, "Ah, this is it!".
So, I'm always curious about what other people's decision processes are.
I'm hoping that we'll continue to discuss this. I've seen a lot of data here, but am far from saturated in terms of explanations about "why I use rnd X".
Nem
Brassman
Member
The reason I have the 110gr Fed. still in my 642 is that my dealer reccomended them for low recoil and easier 2nd shot placement. They are very easy to shoot and the hollow point opens up pretty well according to advertisement.
The reason I like the Remington 158gr LSWCHP +P is that it's history as a stopper goes back almost 40 years with many LEO's giving their approval. The only bad thing about the 158gr is the recoil. Of course, if you ever have to use a weapon in SD, you'll probably only need 1 or 2 shots. It's just the practicing with that heavy a load that kills my right thumb.
My thumb probably has a touch of arthritis, but I've never asked a Dr. about it.
So at present I still have the 110's loaded up, but I will not throw my 2 extra boxes of Remingtons away.
The reason I like the Remington 158gr LSWCHP +P is that it's history as a stopper goes back almost 40 years with many LEO's giving their approval. The only bad thing about the 158gr is the recoil. Of course, if you ever have to use a weapon in SD, you'll probably only need 1 or 2 shots. It's just the practicing with that heavy a load that kills my right thumb.
My thumb probably has a touch of arthritis, but I've never asked a Dr. about it.So at present I still have the 110's loaded up, but I will not throw my 2 extra boxes of Remingtons away.
MassMark
Member
Brassman and Nem870 - I have reread the thread, (hey that rhymes) and there has been a lot of good information posted - even though much was opinions, those are valuable as well.
DawgFvr makes a good point as well - availability coupled with marketing. I went to 4 different gun shops in my area. The closest thing I came to a 158 was MagTec 158 FMJ. Sure, I could probably order some, but they are cost prohibitive. Still, if there were a box on the shelf, I'd likely buy em and try em. I do not reload and for the immediate future won't - maybe some day.
When deciding on which round to carry, I do rely at least a little on what's available to me, (immediately). I also mix in a lot of trial and error, (mostly trial) coupled with research. Up until my 642, I have been carrying a .45ACP in some form, for the last 8-years. For many of those years, I carried Black Talons and pretty much ignored any thoughts on ever switching. I had what I felt was a "superior round" for me. It wasn't until I bought my ParaOrdinance 6.45, that I started to really look at what I was carrying for ammunition. I had been carrying the Talons for years and years and ceremoniously shot the 40-rounds I had been hanging onto for so long. It felt good to let go and open my mind up a bit...
Knowing I'm rambling now, (sorry), I'll get to the end of it. I shot many, many boxes - at great cost I might add, of every defense round I could get my hands on - from mild to wild. I also did a fair amount of research, (technical coupled with opinion) and found the Remington Golden Sabre 185 JHP's were the ticket... Was I carrying a "superior round"? Perhaps, but that didn't really matter. I was carrying what felt best to me - with the full knowledge that even if there were better rounds out there, I still would not want to take a hit from a Golden Sabre.
I arrived at the Speer 135 +P GDHP's in much the same manner. I shot a lot of everything. I must have fired 10 different rounds in the first week of my 642CT ownership. My decision to carry the 135's came from a lot of reading, a lot of shooting and zero marketing. I also factored in cost. With many FFL's jumping on the "Hype-Train" and marking up self defense rounds into the stratosphere, (especially around here), finding 1,000 rounds of 135's for $240.00 delivered was too good to pass up. Pulling some empty boxes out of my car - representing 4 dealers here is my area was telling: Federal HydraShoks 20 rounds - $18.95, Speer GDHP 125's 20 rounds $19.95, Cor-Bon 125's 20 rounds $21.95...Winchester 125 JHP, (the best value of all four) $19.95 50 rounds. The list goes on, but illustrates that marketing may begin with the ammo companies, but ends with many, (not all) FFL's "marking up the hype"...
Truth is, I don't honestly know if my Speer 135 +P GDHP's are "superior" to the FBI loads. What I do know is they work for me, are a handfull, (big bark) and I would not want to be on the receiving end of either of them...
DawgFvr makes a good point as well - availability coupled with marketing. I went to 4 different gun shops in my area. The closest thing I came to a 158 was MagTec 158 FMJ. Sure, I could probably order some, but they are cost prohibitive. Still, if there were a box on the shelf, I'd likely buy em and try em. I do not reload and for the immediate future won't - maybe some day.
When deciding on which round to carry, I do rely at least a little on what's available to me, (immediately). I also mix in a lot of trial and error, (mostly trial) coupled with research. Up until my 642, I have been carrying a .45ACP in some form, for the last 8-years. For many of those years, I carried Black Talons and pretty much ignored any thoughts on ever switching. I had what I felt was a "superior round" for me. It wasn't until I bought my ParaOrdinance 6.45, that I started to really look at what I was carrying for ammunition. I had been carrying the Talons for years and years and ceremoniously shot the 40-rounds I had been hanging onto for so long. It felt good to let go and open my mind up a bit...
Knowing I'm rambling now, (sorry), I'll get to the end of it. I shot many, many boxes - at great cost I might add, of every defense round I could get my hands on - from mild to wild. I also did a fair amount of research, (technical coupled with opinion) and found the Remington Golden Sabre 185 JHP's were the ticket... Was I carrying a "superior round"? Perhaps, but that didn't really matter. I was carrying what felt best to me - with the full knowledge that even if there were better rounds out there, I still would not want to take a hit from a Golden Sabre.
I arrived at the Speer 135 +P GDHP's in much the same manner. I shot a lot of everything. I must have fired 10 different rounds in the first week of my 642CT ownership. My decision to carry the 135's came from a lot of reading, a lot of shooting and zero marketing. I also factored in cost. With many FFL's jumping on the "Hype-Train" and marking up self defense rounds into the stratosphere, (especially around here), finding 1,000 rounds of 135's for $240.00 delivered was too good to pass up. Pulling some empty boxes out of my car - representing 4 dealers here is my area was telling: Federal HydraShoks 20 rounds - $18.95, Speer GDHP 125's 20 rounds $19.95, Cor-Bon 125's 20 rounds $21.95...Winchester 125 JHP, (the best value of all four) $19.95 50 rounds. The list goes on, but illustrates that marketing may begin with the ammo companies, but ends with many, (not all) FFL's "marking up the hype"...
Truth is, I don't honestly know if my Speer 135 +P GDHP's are "superior" to the FBI loads. What I do know is they work for me, are a handfull, (big bark) and I would not want to be on the receiving end of either of them...
Jeff Timm
Member
Back in the 1980s there was a flirtation with very light bullets in the .38 Special to get hollow points to expand to maximum.
The Feds issued some 95 gr .38 Special Hollow points, and there was at least one factory load with a 85gr from the .380 in the .38 Special case.
I like the 110 gr. Standard Velocity in my old Model 38 S&W and I accept the lack of penetration because my personal defense needs are different from an LEOs needs. I don't intend to shoot a man sideways while he fires a rifle at someone else.
Geoff
Who hopes he never has to do any empirical testing of his theory.
The Feds issued some 95 gr .38 Special Hollow points, and there was at least one factory load with a 85gr from the .380 in the .38 Special case.
I like the 110 gr. Standard Velocity in my old Model 38 S&W and I accept the lack of penetration because my personal defense needs are different from an LEOs needs. I don't intend to shoot a man sideways while he fires a rifle at someone else.
Geoff
Who hopes he never has to do any empirical testing of his theory.
In the 80s or 90s Gun Test did a test of 38spl. +p loads. There pick at that time was Corbon 125grn.+p. I still have a few boxs and a Catalog. They claim over 1000 fps from a 2" gun. They shoot good from my 2" 38s so thats what I carry.
brentfoto
member
Model 49 2" snubnose.
I voted for the Speer 135gr +P GDHP.
In my view, the 'other two' in contention, Rem 158 LHP +P and the Cor-Bon 110 DPX +P, are, however, great rounds.
Gel test results are similar, with, perhaps the edge to the Cor-Bon, but the other two make it up in expansion?
Anyway, the Rem is a bit much recoil for me, especially with follow-up shots. Too much muzzle flip for me. It's also lead (a bit dirty) and I believe may have had some problems underexpanding and overpenetrating in the denim and/or other tests. I could be wrong.
I actually think between the Cor-Bon and the Speer the former may be more desirable on penetration, and I believe the major reason for selecting the Cor-Bon in addition to penetration would be for the Barnes copper bullet, that has no jacket or lead core, and is a very reliable expander. But I believe that it's pricey and I had a little difficulty extracting a cylinder full after testing it. That happened once, and I shot a total of 2 and 1/2 cylinders-14 rounds. It's also not readily available much of the time.
The Speer seems to group well, is law-enforcement approved, reliable and available. It's heavier than the Cor-Bon. The ballistic gelatin tests appear excellent, especially with barriers. However, I am concerned with penetration in bare ballistic gelatin-seems to lag a bit compared to Rem and Cor-Bon, and have actually seen results, I think, on brassfetcher.com where it did not pass 12" (this conflicts with the Speer data on the website-but even Speer has bare gelatin at 11"-negligible FBI standards failure).
Very tough deciding which for carry...I've switched back and forth, and have even considered mixing the DPX and the GD in one cylinder. But decided against it for multiple shot consistency. Any views on mixing and matching in one cylinder?
These are the top three loads AFAIK, but the Buffalo Bores may be worth looking at...however, if ever in a SD situation, I think it better to go with the load the 'cops' use...and the load now is apparently 'Speer GD 135gr +P'. I can also get it locally and relatively cheaper than the Cor-Bon and can get it in the 50 round boxes.
I voted for the Speer 135gr +P GDHP.
In my view, the 'other two' in contention, Rem 158 LHP +P and the Cor-Bon 110 DPX +P, are, however, great rounds.
Gel test results are similar, with, perhaps the edge to the Cor-Bon, but the other two make it up in expansion?
Anyway, the Rem is a bit much recoil for me, especially with follow-up shots. Too much muzzle flip for me. It's also lead (a bit dirty) and I believe may have had some problems underexpanding and overpenetrating in the denim and/or other tests. I could be wrong.
I actually think between the Cor-Bon and the Speer the former may be more desirable on penetration, and I believe the major reason for selecting the Cor-Bon in addition to penetration would be for the Barnes copper bullet, that has no jacket or lead core, and is a very reliable expander. But I believe that it's pricey and I had a little difficulty extracting a cylinder full after testing it. That happened once, and I shot a total of 2 and 1/2 cylinders-14 rounds. It's also not readily available much of the time.
The Speer seems to group well, is law-enforcement approved, reliable and available. It's heavier than the Cor-Bon. The ballistic gelatin tests appear excellent, especially with barriers. However, I am concerned with penetration in bare ballistic gelatin-seems to lag a bit compared to Rem and Cor-Bon, and have actually seen results, I think, on brassfetcher.com where it did not pass 12" (this conflicts with the Speer data on the website-but even Speer has bare gelatin at 11"-negligible FBI standards failure).
Very tough deciding which for carry...I've switched back and forth, and have even considered mixing the DPX and the GD in one cylinder. But decided against it for multiple shot consistency. Any views on mixing and matching in one cylinder?
These are the top three loads AFAIK, but the Buffalo Bores may be worth looking at...however, if ever in a SD situation, I think it better to go with the load the 'cops' use...and the load now is apparently 'Speer GD 135gr +P'. I can also get it locally and relatively cheaper than the Cor-Bon and can get it in the 50 round boxes.
Last edited:
BikerRN
member
After carrying a variety of different rounds, testing them and reading as much as I could on the various rounds I finally selected the Gold Dot 135 Grain +P's.
I'm happy with my choice and it's a "proven" load for a snubbie.
Biker
I'm happy with my choice and it's a "proven" load for a snubbie.
Biker
doc540
Member
I'm using 125gr Speer Gold Dots because they were available locally when 135gr Gold Dots weren't.
AStone
Member
Speer 135 gr Gold Dot +P in an x42.
SwampWolf
Member
Because I carry a Colt Cobra and much shooting with +P loads is not recommended, I rely on non-+P loads- which are getting harder and harder to find when loaded with "self-defense" bullets. I also want a bullet weight that corresponds with a 25 yard poa to poi. So, I have pretty much settled on Fiocchi SJHP 148 grain which, in my case at least, seems to be proving a good compromise between controllable (relatively mild) repeat shots, expansion and penetration. I've also been experimenting with Hornady JHP/XTP 158 grain and Buffalo Bore JHC Speer Low Vel. 125 grain loads.
However, at the end of the day, I'll be the first to concede that no empirical, definitive data exists that proves one competitive load superior to another in every situation- way too many variables involved.
However, at the end of the day, I'll be the first to concede that no empirical, definitive data exists that proves one competitive load superior to another in every situation- way too many variables involved.
Jumpin4Joy
Member
Remington 130gr. Same as my target shooting round. If the first one doesnt stopp'em, then I have 5 more where it came from.
Jeff
Jeff
silverking
Member
Federal 129 gr HYDRA-SHOK JHP
This is my personal defense carry load. Being relatively new at CCW, I made this my choice based on recommendations from friends. If these don't work when the SHTF, I won't have any friends to be mad at.
This is my personal defense carry load. Being relatively new at CCW, I made this my choice based on recommendations from friends. If these don't work when the SHTF, I won't have any friends to be mad at.
funnelcake
Member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2007
- Messages
- 321
Federal Nyclad +P 158gr. LSWCHP -til they run out.
I voted for other. I just bought my first revolver, SW 642CT, I'm picking it up today, can't wait. So I will probably buy a box of the best ammo they have on hand at my dealer. Probable will be Rem GS 125+p, he said he had those in stock, no 135 GD's. However, I really like DT's ammo, so i just bought a box of their 125gr +p gold dots to test out for my regular carry round. Specs on the website look great.
- Status
