What to check when rifle starts shooting poorly...

[Red_Dog_Leader]

Rifle is a Stevens in .223. When new it would shoot with hornady 55/60g vmaxes groups you could cover with a 50cent piece, with my handloads with hornady same bullets you could cover the groups with a quarter or sometimes a nickel at a 100yrds.
For the last dozen or so range trips the groups have been opening up. Getting wider and all over the place.

50 yrd Target below:




I know its not me....308 target below:





I have so far done the following:
• Changed from the Bushnell 3x9 that came with it to a Nikon buckmaster 4x-14 and re sighted @ 25, 50 yrds.
• Still using rings and bases that came with rifle, checked those for tightness.
• Using a front rock rest and rear bag.
• Checked stock for torque, adjusted torque at range also.
• Scrubbed the hell out of the bore/chamber. I would do 2 foam applications (let sit for 20 minutes), brushing, followed by patches with Butches bore shine. Even JB'ed and have let butches sit in barrel overnight....
• Have shot hornady factory loaded 55/60 vmaxes side by side with my handloads, both are poor groupings. Tried 69 SMK's, still poor. Have used bulk Remington for a few foulers, then use my handloads.
• When shooting, have let the barrel cool to ambient, and also have tried shooting fast, no change.
• Looked down barrel for anything unusual, cant see any glaring gouges or marks.

At this point I'm thinking towards a bull barrel swap, Choate or medalist stock, etc.

But first I thought I'd run it past you guys to see if i missed anything to checkout also.
Thanks, T

 

[Abel]

How many shots has this barrel seen total? What mounts do you use?

 

[Red_Dog_Leader]

Got it 8/2009, got to be less than 1000 rnds.

Mounts are what came with the rifle, a Stevens rifle/scope package.

I had plans to rebuild the action with a barrel/recoil lug from N.S.S, tac stock, etc...when funds allow.

So concerning mounts, I have a new bushnell Elite Tac scope (30MM tube) that might end up on it, or not. Or my next step was to get decent base/rings for it.

I was saving the bushnell for a savage in .260 down the line.

 

[Hunterdad]

At 1000rds, its not even broken in yet. I'd be looking at the scope mounts/base and replace. If that's not the issue, I'd look at the muzzle/crown and make sure its not damaged.

 

[jehu]

The big variable here is the change of the scope. Get better mounts and try again. Unlikely you have a defective scope but not imposible.

 

[wingman]

Did you remove action from stock prior to change in groups, have you checked action bolts for torque, does not take much movement between stock and action to open up groups.

Oops, went back and read again, you did check action bolts, I would still pull stock and recheck it, I usually go this route,
check stock, scope,barrel in that order.

 

[Red_Dog_Leader]

At 1000rds, its not even broken in yet. I'd be looking at the scope mounts/base and replace. If that's not the issue, I'd look at the muzzle/crown and make sure its not damaged.

Yeah, but it was shooting great for many, many rounds...I.l look closer @ crown

 

[Red_Dog_Leader]

The big variable here is the change of the scope. Get better mounts and try again. Unlikely you have a defective scope but not imposible.

This will probably be my 1st move.

 

[chrome_austex]

Check and see if the barrel is free floated in the stock...

 

[slimfitter]

You might check you brass length , you might check your bullet seating; you might check your gap between the end of your bullet to your seating,and you might weigh your bullets to see what difference there is between them and group them in by weight.

 

[LJ-MosinFreak-Buck]

Could always be fouled to the point where it loses accuracy. I don't know your cleaning habits, so I'm just taking a shot in the dark, here.

Edited to Add:

Okay, I just seen that you have cleaned it. Must have missed that when reading. I would venture to say that it's probably rings/mount, like the others have said.

 

[Walkalong]

Loose scope or action screws, bad scope, dirty barrel.

 

[Abel]

I think that the base/rings are the culprit. Or over cleaning with various solvents. If that's the case, just buy the pac-nor barrel that you wanted.

 

[gunnutter]

I'm with the others....look to the rings and mount first. Good luck and let us know when you find the culprit.

 

[rajb123]

.....barrel may be shot out.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Mounts are what came with the rifle, a Stevens rifle/scope package.

Are these steel or aluminum rings and bases? Some Savage rifles had aluminum rings that were easy to over torque and even if ONE screw starts to loosen up or strip on a mount it can be confusing as all get-out.

 

[Red_Dog_Leader]

thanks for all the replys, going with some new rings and base.

 

[HankB]

1. I would check the base/rings first. When checking for tightness, did you verify that the mount screws tighten down on the base itself, and when tight, the rings still have a small "gap" between the top and bottom? I've seen cases where mount screws are too long and bottom out in the receiver before the mount itself is snug, and rings that aren't quite right, either. (But if either were the case, I'd expect that you would have had problems from the beginning.)

2. Cleaning . . . after you let the bore solvent soak for a while, do the patches come out clean, or do they have blue/green stain on them? If the latter, you still have metal fouling.

3. Damage to barrel crown - check with a magnifier.

4. Bedding. It's not just a matter of making sure the action bolts are tight (be sure the bolts aren't bottoming out) but you should check for uneven pressure on the barrel. Can you slip a dollar bill between the barrel and the stock from the front of the stock back to the action? If not, a few strokes with a rasp may fix the problem. (I'm assuming the stock wasn't designed to have a deliberate pressure point.)

At only 1000 rounds, a .223 ought not have worn out the barrel; it should be good for many times that.

Good luck.

 

[Red_Dog_Leader]

Can you slip a dollar bill between the barrel and the stock from the front of the stock back to the action?

Yes I can. Thanks again for the replys. Waiting on the new rings and base, will see how it goes.

 

[Dthunter]

I am lucky to have a proven target scope that I use for "proofing/developing loads on rifles. Its known to hold zero and track reliably.

I recently had issues with a longrange rifle of mine. It was double grouping. Upon further inspection, the main action screw was backed off by 1-1/2 revolutions!
The action is glass bedded, and still this had a noticable effect.
If your action is "NOT" properly bedded, things can change without notice, and create havoc during load development or just shooting in general.

Hope My perspective has helped in some way.

 

[Float Pilot]

1. Many of the new breed of plastic stocked rifles are beaded at the factory with something like a hot glue gun. When you pull the action out of the stock part of that sticks to the action and part in the stock. Often one piece or another falling off on the floor. They never line up again... That could have happened here.

2. Many of the new plastic jobs have such poor bedding that they must use a couple pressure points in the barrel channel to push up on the bottom of the barrel near the end of the fore-arm. This makes them super picky about action torque. Another problem associated with this is that some of the new stocks will actually compress where the action screws go through the stock. So they get loser no mater what you do. If you do not have pressure points, an old trick is to wedge a folded business card or pieces of target paper under the barrel near the fore-end and see what that does to your group. If it suddenly gets tighter, you have a bedding problem.

3. Barrel crown (already mentioned) it only takes a little nick.

4. Scope going bad.... Oddly enough I have now had two High Cost Leupold scopes go bad. One was a Leupold Boone and Crockett 4.5x14 30mm... Something went wrong and the guts shake around enough that the groups look like yours. I replaced it at the range with a $150 Pentex just to check and the groups went from 6 inches side to side back to a half inch.

5. How much copper came out when you JBed the bore?

6. Some of my rifles change the bullets they like as the throat becomes worn over the years.

 

[wingman]

Another problem associated with this is that some of the new stocks will actually compress where the action screws go through the stock.

Agree,one cost cutter for manufacturing of low cost rifles is the stock some of the new plastic is cheap once there removed and torqued a few times easy for groups to go south and believe me it does not take much movement between stock and action to do strange things to accuracy.
I've never had a set of mounts or rings go bad but scopes and stocks can be an easy source of trouble.

 

[Skyshot]

Red dog, check the recoil lug where it mates to the reciever at the top. Some of the stevens 200's and savage 11's will have a recoil lug that is not mated good to the reciever. The way to tell is to run your fingernail on the top of the reciever towards the barrel nut, if you feel your finger stop at the recoil lug take note of mounting the front scope base. You need not remove the barrel to correct this but just bevel the end of the scope base. I have seen this on several rifles and it will definately cause you some grief. Some lugs are flush and some are below the recievers outside diameter, but the ones that are high will give you problems. Had the same thing on a Stevens 308 that shot lights out and then one day started drifting. It took three remount jobs before I noticed that the recoil lug was the culprit. The second thing to check is the bedding on the stevens. Clean any burrs and flashing around the pillars and assuming its a center feed rifle check the rear mounting brackect that holds the magazine in place making sure that it mates flush to the rear pillar. Hope this helps, Good luck

 

[murf]

a loose barrel nut would probably decrease accuracy. could explain the "all of a sudden" accuracy loss. fwiw

murf

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Copper can be stubborn sometimes...I use Hoppes Benchrest solvent...its time consuming, but it has always worked. No scrubbing...just soaking for a few hours, wipe it out, repeat as needed...when you think you have it all out...let it soak overnight, wipe it out....if the patch is clean, you're done...if not, repeat.

In 30 years it has never let me down...its more aggressive than Hoppes #9, but not aggressive enough to cause damage even if its left in the barrel for days. Some may disagree, but I've used it for years, even on custom barrels...it has never hurt my barrels in any way.

I have no experience with the newer methods or solvents...but it sure sounds like the barrel is fouled.


9 times out of 10...when my guns start shooting poorly...its the nut behind the trigger , but copper fouling sneaks up on me from time to time too. I only get the copper out when it starts messing with accuracy.