What to do when you want a pistol gripped shotgun?
- Thread starter BhmBill
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Don't take it personal, and don't take all the negative comments seriously.
This happens with every PGO thread.
Some negative posters actually know what they are talking about. These posters spent time and ammo using a PGO. After which they decided for their purpose the negatives of a PGO did not outweigh the good of a full stocked gun.
I can respect these poster's opinions, as they are based on fact.
On the other hand others base their opinions on net videos, firing one or two shells, or reports of a friend's Uncle's brother's sister's boy friend's knocking out five teeth and a broken nose when he fired one.
Some more just want to jump on the bandwagon and slam someone's personal choice in a shotgun.
If you like your shotgun great.
Take it out and enjoy running shells through it!!Ohh ya. My well used 500 is sporting a PGO again for an upcomming hiking/camping trip.
And I do shoot it.
Titan6
member
The way I see it....
A PGO shotgun is like taking your 27" wheels off you racing bike and putting 16" wheels on so that it will fit in the car easier on the way to the race. The bike might still go but you sure are going to be behind.
A PGO shotgun is like taking your 27" wheels off you racing bike and putting 16" wheels on so that it will fit in the car easier on the way to the race. The bike might still go but you sure are going to be behind.
Badger Arms
Member
ArmedBear said:
Well, I wouldn't if I had done it. This was meant tongue in cheek. I did own this shotgun but I didn't do the modification. Read the story here:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=17135
Must everything be set up for race/performance? Couldn't possibly be set up for the purpose of fun, could it?
Thank youuuu. It seems alot of people are upset because someone elses gun isn't set up how they want, think, or feel it should be. Just because someone elses property doesn't suit their needs, doesn't mean it isn't useful for whatever purpose the owner finds for it.
Thank you again, sir. I most definitely will run shells through it. I got a couple hundred shells for it, everything from #7.5 birdshot to 00 buck.
Titan6
member
Touchy, touchy.... lighten up, go to Walmart and buy a sense of humor.
mgregg85
Member
Hmm, what to do when you want a PGO shotgun.
Try holding one up to your face to aim it and then pull the trigger on a 3" mag round.
Repeat as often as necessary.
Nah, I've got a 20ga PGO that I use for fun while plinking, it might be slightly more maneuverable in tight spaces but I still prefer a shotgun to have a stock. I guess I don't see the benefit of a normal PGO shotgun for any real situation.
But I'm sure I could find a use for this little guy, if only Michigan allowed AOWs.:banghead:
Try holding one up to your face to aim it and then pull the trigger on a 3" mag round.
Repeat as often as necessary.
Nah, I've got a 20ga PGO that I use for fun while plinking, it might be slightly more maneuverable in tight spaces but I still prefer a shotgun to have a stock. I guess I don't see the benefit of a normal PGO shotgun for any real situation.
But I'm sure I could find a use for this little guy, if only Michigan allowed AOWs.:banghead:
theotherwaldo
Member
I've got two pistol-gripped pumps. Both are found guns, neither had wants against them, and both get used. My sister is rather partial to one of them, as it was at hand during an attempted B&E.
That said, I'd never take a functional, intact shotgun and chop it up that way. Bubba's beaters are too easy to come by. Why make more?
Now, I have been known to expand upon Bubba's ideas... .
That said, I'd never take a functional, intact shotgun and chop it up that way. Bubba's beaters are too easy to come by. Why make more?
Now, I have been known to expand upon Bubba's ideas... .
(Hope this is the right thread)
Well, I like pistol grips. Always have. Made a few here and there, bought more than a few. Even learned how to make birdshead Speedfeed pistol grips when they screwed the pooch on so many Mossy grips these past years. Currently have five. Three are on guns, two are on canes. Yeah, I invented the pistol grip walking stick with an ATI Thompson-style grip on an inch and a quarter diam maple stick.
Me, personally, I can't stand folks who try to hunt with pistols. More game has been tortured and maimed with pistols than any other type of firearm. But raise that topic among pistol hunters and see how quick you get cussed.
I guess to each his own, as they say.
Keep cutting your stocks, Bill. Do with your equipment what you want. It's yours. Chances are, I did the same thing a few times. I enjoy customizing, too.
Ahhhh, what the hell. I have a Mossy stock that has a few inches of water stain on it. I think I'll cut it just for fun.
richard
Well, I like pistol grips. Always have. Made a few here and there, bought more than a few. Even learned how to make birdshead Speedfeed pistol grips when they screwed the pooch on so many Mossy grips these past years. Currently have five. Three are on guns, two are on canes. Yeah, I invented the pistol grip walking stick with an ATI Thompson-style grip on an inch and a quarter diam maple stick.
Me, personally, I can't stand folks who try to hunt with pistols. More game has been tortured and maimed with pistols than any other type of firearm. But raise that topic among pistol hunters and see how quick you get cussed.
I guess to each his own, as they say.
Keep cutting your stocks, Bill. Do with your equipment what you want. It's yours. Chances are, I did the same thing a few times. I enjoy customizing, too.
Ahhhh, what the hell. I have a Mossy stock that has a few inches of water stain on it. I think I'll cut it just for fun.
richard
One of these days, I may try out the M4-style sliding stock with a pistol grip on a shotgun. While I know the M4 stock won't handle the recoil as well, I think this setup might be a decent compromise of reduced OAL but control.
I was especially thinking a setup like this might be useful for Alaskan bush pilots and such.
John
I was especially thinking a setup like this might be useful for Alaskan bush pilots and such.
John
If you havent heard of them and If you have the $125 or so, check out the Knoxx "spec ops" stocks. My brother has one on his Norinco 870 clone and it's great.
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=127855666
Like that. Sliding adjustable PG shotty. THEY hold up, fired many many many slugs out of that gun with that stock.
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=127855666
Like that. Sliding adjustable PG shotty. THEY hold up, fired many many many slugs out of that gun with that stock.
txman321
Member
sure looks mean, My buddies got a pistol grip shotgun man do they kick but they are alot of fun
We issue that style at work now. The particular maker is ATI. I have no idea why we went this route, as it really is a crappy solution (probably more related to the maker than the general design).
The setup is light and flimsy. It makes an already nose-heavy gun even more nose-heavy.
You have to constantly watch the screws and bolts. They like to work their way loose.
The drop in the stock is all messed up. You cannot get a good sight picture, unless you really jam your cheek down onto the stock. Even then, you still cannot get the proper alignment, and your shots tend to be off in elevation.
A better-made stock would probably eliminate most of these problems. ATI is not known as a real top-end maker.
I would absolutly try an example for fit, though, beforehand, particularly in reference to the stock's drop.As for PGO shotguns, I have shot them, I have seen them shot, and I have seen people run realistic courses of fire with them, both alone and alongside fully stocked shotguns.
You can have them. I have no use for them.
Mike
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
Leesee .....
John's not only a recently returned vet with tours in both A stan and Iraq, but someone who has qualified with everything up to crew served artillery.
Coronach is an LEO and has extensive street experience as well as training above and beyond departmental fiat.
And most folks think I know something about shooting shotguns.
We have little use for PGO shotguns, with or without super duper spring loaded gimmick stocks.
I note we don't see them at 3 gun matches, CAS matches, Skeet matches, Trap matches, on Sporting Clays courses, or in the hunting fields.
In fact. we rarely see them except in entertainments and on the Net.
[sarcasm}
Of course, any of the folks advocating their use is welcome to come out to PGC range inb MD and amaze and delight me with your expertise.
[/sarcasm].....
John's not only a recently returned vet with tours in both A stan and Iraq, but someone who has qualified with everything up to crew served artillery.
Coronach is an LEO and has extensive street experience as well as training above and beyond departmental fiat.
And most folks think I know something about shooting shotguns.
We have little use for PGO shotguns, with or without super duper spring loaded gimmick stocks.
I note we don't see them at 3 gun matches, CAS matches, Skeet matches, Trap matches, on Sporting Clays courses, or in the hunting fields.
In fact. we rarely see them except in entertainments and on the Net.
[sarcasm}
Of course, any of the folks advocating their use is welcome to come out to PGC range inb MD and amaze and delight me with your expertise.
[/sarcasm].....
Pretty lame straw man argument, Dave.
You don't see crossbows, broadswords, single shot pistols, spears etc at any of those matches, either. But just because one weapon isn't suited for a particular type of use doesn't mean it's not useful at all. You don't see pistols being used for skeet for example.
Using a pistol grip shotgun is no different from fast draw comp at CAS events. You're using the weapon in a way that it wasn't designed nor intended to be used....the hip shoot without the sights....but it's useful because the user has *practiced* it enough to be useful.
rich
Pretty high road of yourself, Dave.
Thanks for the input. I'll keep that in mind that unless youre military or LEO you can't draw any sort of equitable opinion on PG shotguns.
[sarcasm]
I'll join the military, become an LEO, and be sure to do some more shotgun competitions so that I can make sure people know my views on certain shotguns and their accessories is right.
[/sarcasm]
I've done xxxx and I was an xxxx, therefore my opinion is the right one. http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=445699
rbernie
Contributing Member
This makes no sense. The point Dave made is that, in the SHOTGUN competitions, you don't see PGO shotguns used - at all. If they offered any benefit, you better believe that the competitors would be using them. The logical inference is that they don't work better than traditionally-stocked shotguns under the types of conditions found in these competitions and in the hunting fields.
Sure, you can. But, as the saying goes - the only opinion that's of interest is an informed opinion. Folks that shoot A LOT will have more interesting opinions than folks that don't. Folks that shoot to train for Serious Work will likely have more interesting opinions than folk who put a handful of shells downrange every now and again.
If you fall into the former category - trot out the bona fides and have at it. But don't expect that folks that DO have some bona fides to not ask for yours, when you present data that contradicts their own experiences.
This is serious work. These are not toys. Anyone offering an opinion should be willing to man up and express the details of how that opinion was formed and under what circumstances, or expect to be chided.
That not low road. That's real life.
We don't give 'participation trophies'. We share real-life knowledge.
AKElroy
Member
I have a barely used pachmayr decelerator pistol grip for a defender 1300 for sale cheap. I bought it 20 years ago when I thought it would look cool, actual practice convinced me to replace it with a speadfeed and turn it back into a useful weapon. Cool is as cool does.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
I attended a local 3 gun match this weekend where one of the competitors was running a PGO Mossberg 20 Ga.
Now, this match is held on a fairly small range, and most of the stages involve short distances and large targets. Most of the steel targets are ones that are generally used for Cowboy Action Shooting and on the largish side. A cursory Google search tells me that 16"x16" is pretty standard for a CAS steel plate target.
At this match, I watched as this competitor, shooting a PGO shotgun at distances of ten yards, missed extremely large targets, often by more than a foot.
Let me repeat that:
With a (presumably, judging by the pattern) cylinder-bored 20 ga PGO shotgun, the competitor in question missed targets that were over a foot in diameter at extremely short range.
Not even the kids who were there to shoot their first match had that kind of problem. Despite their obvious inexperience at handling firearms in a match setting, they were still able to hit these targets with a properly stocked 870.
If the configuration of a PGO shotgun is such that it hinders making shots that are, by any standard ridiculously easy, then it is a firearm with absolutely no utility whatsoever.
It is, at best, a range toy. Trying to argue anything to the contrary is nothing more than selling yourself toupees.
Now, this match is held on a fairly small range, and most of the stages involve short distances and large targets. Most of the steel targets are ones that are generally used for Cowboy Action Shooting and on the largish side. A cursory Google search tells me that 16"x16" is pretty standard for a CAS steel plate target.
At this match, I watched as this competitor, shooting a PGO shotgun at distances of ten yards, missed extremely large targets, often by more than a foot.
Let me repeat that:
With a (presumably, judging by the pattern) cylinder-bored 20 ga PGO shotgun, the competitor in question missed targets that were over a foot in diameter at extremely short range.
Not even the kids who were there to shoot their first match had that kind of problem. Despite their obvious inexperience at handling firearms in a match setting, they were still able to hit these targets with a properly stocked 870.
If the configuration of a PGO shotgun is such that it hinders making shots that are, by any standard ridiculously easy, then it is a firearm with absolutely no utility whatsoever.
It is, at best, a range toy. Trying to argue anything to the contrary is nothing more than selling yourself toupees.
crazyjennyblack
Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2008
- Messages
- 391
I might as well chime in on this one. I never done xxxx or was an xxxx, but I have shot a PGO shotgun. In twelve gauge, at a 25 yard range, using Winchester Super-X 2.75" 9 pellet 00 buck shells.
Accuracy is, as many have rightly pointed out, not nearly as good with a PGO. My problem was that I couldn't really sight along the barrel, so it's harder to aim, and at least for me, shooting from the hip is difficult and takes work. Your mileage may vary. As for recoil, it's very stout, but not unmanagable.
I'm fairly slight of build, and 5'8". To add to that, my strength is in my legs, not my arms, but I can still handle it. Wouldn't relish shooting the 3" "pain sticks" out of it, but then I wouldn't want to use those shells at all (personal preference).
However, that being said, I'd like to own a PGO shotgun. Mostly for fun, but also as a "beside the bed" weapon. I would want it to eject downward, though, as I'd prefer it to be ambidextrous. I know there are better choices, but at close range (10 ft or so) it would be perfect. However, beyond that, I would definitely switch to a shotgun with a shoulder stock.
Since I only see fit to use a PGO in that one situation, or maybe as a car gun, I don't consider it a worthwhile buy. If I find one for dirt cheap, I'll get it, but otherwise no.
For "serious work," I view the PGO shotgun as an "auxiliary" or "special situation" kind of weapon. I certainly would not choose it for my main one, however I wouldn't criticize anyone who wants one.
Accuracy is, as many have rightly pointed out, not nearly as good with a PGO. My problem was that I couldn't really sight along the barrel, so it's harder to aim, and at least for me, shooting from the hip is difficult and takes work. Your mileage may vary. As for recoil, it's very stout, but not unmanagable.
I'm fairly slight of build, and 5'8". To add to that, my strength is in my legs, not my arms, but I can still handle it. Wouldn't relish shooting the 3" "pain sticks" out of it, but then I wouldn't want to use those shells at all (personal preference).
However, that being said, I'd like to own a PGO shotgun. Mostly for fun, but also as a "beside the bed" weapon. I would want it to eject downward, though, as I'd prefer it to be ambidextrous. I know there are better choices, but at close range (10 ft or so) it would be perfect. However, beyond that, I would definitely switch to a shotgun with a shoulder stock.
Since I only see fit to use a PGO in that one situation, or maybe as a car gun, I don't consider it a worthwhile buy. If I find one for dirt cheap, I'll get it, but otherwise no.
For "serious work," I view the PGO shotgun as an "auxiliary" or "special situation" kind of weapon. I certainly would not choose it for my main one, however I wouldn't criticize anyone who wants one.
"Makes no sense?" and yet you reiterated my point, Bernie? Might want to go back and read that again, bud.
If pistol grip shotguns "offered any benefit" in *THOSE* competitions, they would be used in *THOSE* competitions....but as I said, just because they aren't used in *THOSE* competitions, doesn't make them useless. Dave trying to suggest that *THOSE* competitions were the *ONLY* imaginable uses for a shotgun is a straw man argument. The inferred logic is only correct if you assume the initial statement is correct....which it isn't.
Crossbows aren't used in skeet shooting because they offer no benefit over a shotgun. But, just because crossbows aren't used in skeet, that doesn't make them useless in *all* possible uses. Spears aren't used in CAS shooting....they offer no benefit over a good Colt....but just because they aren't used *in that competition*, that doesn't make them useless.
You don't see many undercover cops with skeet guns hidden under their coats. You don't see many Isreali security officers armed with side by side coachguns etc etc etc. Serbu's exist for a reason. FBI agents use them, cops use them, Secret Service agents use them, gang members use them etc etc etc. Shorty shotguns with pistol grips fill the niche where massive, shortrange, CONCEALABLE firepower is needed.
richard
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Ok. Well, since I'm neither an undercover cop nor a gangbanger with the need to project an image of overwhelming force, I guess the point still stands that I have no use for such a firearm.
If I ever found myself in such a situation, my preference would be for an SBS rather than a PGO SG.
If I ever found myself in such a situation, my preference would be for an SBS rather than a PGO SG.
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