What to pick @ same price?: S&W M&P AR15R 5.45 or Bushmaster SuperLight AR15 .223

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Bushmaster AR15 with Bushnell TRS-25 3 MOA Red Dot for $699.99 Carbon upper and lower. Includes two 30-round magazines, soft case and sling.
Bushmaster SuperLight Carbine with Red Dot

MAZ-C1516SLORC-lg.jpg


Features & Specifications
[Metric in brackets]
Caliber: 5.56mm or .223 Rem.
Magazine Capacity: 30 rounds (accepts all M16/AR-15 type)
Overall Length: 34.5” [87.63 cm]
Barrel Length: 16” [40.6 cm]
Rifling: 1 in 9" R.H. twist/ 6 grooves & lands
Weight w/o magazine: 5.1lbs
Weight of empty magazine: .25 lbs [.11 kg]
Weight of loaded magazine: 1.0 lbs. [.45 kg]
Mode of Operation: Gas Operated /
Semi-Automatic

Or

Smith & Wesson M&P 15R 30 + 1 Round 5.45X39 w/16" Black Barrel
Flat top

55424.jpg




* Model: M&P15
* Caliber: 5.45 x 39mm
* Capacity: 30 Rounds
* Barrel Length: 16"
* Action: Semi-Auto
* Barrel Twist: 1 in 8"
* Front Sight: M4 Post
* Overall Length: 35" Extended, 32" Collapsed
* Stock: 6-Position Collapsible
* Weight: 6.5 lbs.
* Barrel Material: 4140 Steel
* Receiver Material: 7075 T6 Aluminum
* Finish: Hard Coat Black Anodized
* Chromed Components: Barrel Bore, Gas Key, Bolt Carrier and Chamber
 
I think you will find the majority of folks will suggest the Smith on quality of components alone. On the flip side I have 2 spikes superlights, and I have to say, I love the pencil bbl.

Why have you narrowed it down to these two?
 
Aw man, I don't know. Do you plan on going to butt loads of that cheap ammo with the Smith? I'd say go with the Bushmaster just to have a more mainstream caliber. Besides, .223 is getting pretty cheap. I've seen Tula for $4 a box, and Silver Bear is under $5 a box AND you have ready access to some "real" ammunition.
 
Might I suggest a Smith in 5.56? I would avoid Bushmaster in general and find smith to be good overall. However I have never played with 5.45. I do know ammo is cheaper for it though.
 
I narrowed it down to these two b/c I'd like a M4gery for short distance use, the price is right, and these are a welcome break from the heavier rifles I've held - although, I can't seem to get a consistent weight on the Bushmaster Superlight (some say just over 6lbs while other specs say 5.1).

I also am unsure as to whether the Bushmaster has a fully chrome lined barrel as the S&W does.

As far as caliber - yes, that is the real dilemna. I honestly don't know how much range time I will have with these, so if I get the chance to spend a lot of time at the range, the S&W in 5.45 will allow me twice the bang for the buck (or more) on ammo cost. If not, it's much less a factor.

The Bushnell scope on the Bushmaster is pretty entry level, though it's something, and I'd probably put some iron sights on the S&W.

P.S. - I've heard many horror stories of corrosive 5.45 milsurp ammo, but if you guys check out m4carbine.net, there are guys there with as many as 13k rounds (one of them is a mod) down their S&W M&P AR15Rs, and with a hot water flush and proper lubrication/cleaning after extended range sessions, they keep chugging along with accuracy, and this is using .11 cent per round berdan primer corrosive Russian cartridges. I don't know what the proclaimed life is of S&W barrels, but that is pretty amazing if true.
 
That Bushnell scope looks exactly like one I had that broke the first time I shot it on my Sig 556. IMHO be prepared to get a better higher end scope. Buy cheap<=>buy twice.
Bushmasters are actually OK guns and it isn't hard to uprate them, but you will be better off with the S&W. Bushmasters do have chrome lined barrels (except for a couple of specific variants IIRC). The thing you will have to worry about is proper staking of the gas key, and whether the buffer is the correct type.
Bushies aren't the only AR that doesn't properly stake the gaskey.
 
I really don't know what the knock is on the Bushmasters. Every Bushmaster carrier I've seen, save one, had the key screws staked. Even if they aren't staked, it wouldn't cause me to not buy a rifle that I liked. If you get one that isn't staked, staking is something that can be done with a cold chisel and a hammer.

Of the two, I'd just pick that one I liked best for whatever reason, be it looks or whatever. I've seen Smiths have their own issues, so I'm really not up for saying that either is better than the other.
 
For me, it all comes down to the ammo. Do you want dirt cheap ammo that you will probably have to order online or do you want fairly cheap ammo that can be found anywhere? Thats it, which would you like?
 
TonyAngel said:
I really don't know what the knock is on the Bushmasters. Every Bushmaster carrier I've seen, save one, had the key screws staked.
Click to expand...

There's "staked" and then there is STAKED. So far as I know Bushie does stake the key but not deeply enough. It's easy enough to have fixed though.
 
I really don't know what the knock is on the Bushmasters. Every Bushmaster carrier I've seen, save one, had the key screws staked. Even if they aren't staked, it wouldn't cause me to not buy a rifle that I liked. If you get one that isn't staked, staking is something that can be done with a cold chisel and a hammer
Click to expand...
Because it is just the most visible corner that has been cut.
 
Has anyone ever seen a gas key on a Bushmaster carrier come loose?

I just don't want this guy to discount the Bushmaster completely. I have a mostly Bushmaster carbine that I've had for a long time. Parts have come and gone, but the bolt carrier group is all original and has been untouched and it's run like a champ for well over 10,000 rounds without a hiccup. I just change the rings and extractor/spring when it needs it. I still do see any noticeable wear in the cam pin slot either. I've thought that it is a nice bolt carrier.
 
ive never seen one come loose, or heard of it. i have two and know 3 ppl that have them. (total of 5 that i have seen lots of ammo go through)

there may be something odd about my 2 rifles though. they were manufactered during the awb, but they have 6 position stocks, bayonet lugs, and each came with 2 30rd magazines. they also have fully shrouded bolt carriers, black inserts, 5 coil ejector springs, and nicely staked carrier keys.

a while back i did a poll on "hows my staking?" with "good" winning in a landslide.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=446662

15k+ though my 2 combined with no probs yet, but still around here its definitely easier to just say they suck.
 
Around here, I am buying 5.45x39 for $156 per 1080. That alone justified buying an AK74. :)

If you want a blaster, I would pick the S&W.
 
I've never seen a Bushmaster gas key come loose.
I've never seen a Glock blow up, either.:rolleyes: ---but it has apparantly happened a few times.

One one site I read a thread in which a shooter complained his gas key had come loose and jammed up his M4. Thing is, though, the author was a soldier in Iraq and his gun was a Colt real-deal M-4 carbine, which had a properly staked gaskey.
The point?
Any gun -- even one made to proper specs, can fail. And atleast that one time, fail in a way the Mil-Spec Messiahs think is reserved for the sub-par cheapo M4orgeries.

Look, I am not disputing the fact that guns like Noveskes and Spikes may be the "creme of the creme" and offer a true higherclass of quality, but OTOH that doesn't prove others are junk and will blow up.
I've said elsewhere that the things that Bushmaster doesn't get "right" can, for the most part, be easily rectified. Bushies are good, albeit not stellar, firearms.
 
Caliber: 5.45 x 39mm
Click to expand...

I think you'll find ammo selections for this caliber very limited...

and next to nothing available in the world of reloading components.

On the other hand, with 223Rem/5.56x45mm, the sky is pretty much the limit.
 
Guys, thanks to you, I do think I may just go with a Spikes in 5.56.

For an extra hundie, Spikes seems like they deliver a very well made rifle. A keeper.
 
That is a good price on the 5.45, but is that for the corrosive stuff? 1K round cases of cheap .223 for around $200 is getting to be pretty common and that stuff isn't corrosive. The price of .223 is coming down.
 
Well if the Bushmaster has carbon receivers I would pass. The picture above isn't a Carbon-15 but the description sounds like it.

As far as the S&W I'd pass on 5.45x39 and go for 5.56. Of the two I'd expect the S&W to be better built but I'd keep looking...
 
Looks like this has been covered. Decent call on Spikes.

I'd pass on both, because I don't totally trust the "carbon" line. Some people have had great success. Others have had failures. I'll stick with aluminum.

The other, I'll stick to .223 if I only have one AR.
 
Just for the Record 40% Stonger & Lighter

The following Quote comes Cheaper than Dirt's web sight:

"The Bushmaster Carbon 15 M4 carbines are a unique hybridization of traditional AR-15 features with space-age carbon 15 composite molded receivers for light weight and rugged durability. Lightweight carbon 15 composite receivers - 40% stronger and 40% lighter than comparable aircraft aluminum receivers - unaffected by moisture - will not corrode - matte black throughout (no surface finish to wear off). Upper receiver includes anodized aluminum picatinny rail for unlimited sight, scope or optics mounting. 16" M4 barrel chambered for 5.56mm NATO/.223 Rem. caliber - chrome-lined in both bore and chamber for long wear and ease of maintenance - standard threaded muzzle (1/2" x 28 t.p.I.) fitted with "Izzy" flash suppressor. Barrel finish is mil-spec. manganese phosphate for protection against corrosion and rust. Front sight is a A2 front sight base. Rear Sight is a B.M.A.S. dual aperture flip-up. 6-position telescoping buttstock offers light weight carrying ease and quick handling. Carbine length handguards have internal aluminum shields to protect against heat build-up in rapid fire sequences"

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/18336-55.html
 
Tommygunn said:
There's "staked" and then there is STAKED. So far as I know Bushie does stake the key but not deeply enough. It's easy enough to have fixed though.
Click to expand...
I have seen some "STAKED!!!" jobs. Some are rediculous. A guy will take a perfectly good, maybe even new bolt carrier group and smash the gas key so far it opens fractures in the metal. That is not an "upgrade", it is steel molestation.
 
Ok, I am just hearing about this carbon thing. Someone explain it to me please, and Azziza why would you never touch one? Good/Bad about the carbon recievers?
 
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