What was it like to be able to buy full auto easily?

[leadcounsel]

For those of you who lived in a time prior to the 1980s, what was it like to be able to walk into a gun store and walk out with a full auto weapon?

Was there any extra red tape?
Were they available in large numbers?
Was there even much of a demand?
Were they reasonably priced with their semi-auto competitors?

I was too young then, but I'm thinking that it would have been so darn awesome to walk in, plop down cash, and walk out with an MP5 or Uzi or M16.

 

[The Wiry Irishman]

You'd have to find someone that was buying guns before 1934 it you're interested in what it's like to buy a full auto with no extra hassle. Prior to 1986 you had to go through the same hassle you do now, it just cost a whole lot less.

 

[mainmech48]

I don't believe that you'll find anyone still alive who can remember that particular state of affairs, as it hasn't been even remotely true since about 1935.

 

[benEzra]

Anyone who bought one before the enactment of the NFA would likely be in their 90's now.

 

[Funderb]

Last man that I knew had done that died three years ago.
good man.
Wish i had more time to listen to his stories.

 

[4thPointOfContact]

Can't say how it was in the '30's, but before the last one it wasn't unusual to see a Cobray MAC-10 that cost less than the tax stamp.

Having to pay as much or more for the stamp (and not being able to foretell the future) always made it a "I'll have to get one of those..........one day" kind of thing.

 

[CoRoMo]

Go buy a rifle today.

Imagine that it is actually full auto.

Now you know what it would have been like... just cheaper.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

I knew such a Codger. He got his just before the transfer tax was imposed. That was a lot of money in 1934, far more than most full-auto guns, then. On the other hand, most full-auto guns then weren't the comparatively cheap, stamped guns of the post-'34 era. A Bergmann or an Erma was a work of the machinist art, unlike a Sten.

 

[Shung]

Ask Swiss people (nah really, like you we have a 150$ tax on it.. and can't shoot them as we want)

 

[Jim K]

I knew a collector who had a basement full of WWI machineguns he had registered at the time the NFA was enacted. I don't know what happened to them.

He had MG. 08's , MG. 08/15's with and without the sled, several Lewis guns, two or three M1917 water cooled, Vickers guns, a half dozen BARs, Italian and French machineguns, (yes two or three Chauchats), and on and on. Plus a couple of hundred military rifles and handguns.

Jim

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

The hoops to jump through would still have been the same from 1934-1986.

 

[A/C Guy]

Just come down to Az, you can pick from 20 different models in stock at our local gun shop; appropriately named US Auto Weapons. Pay for the gun, pay the $200 tax, fill out paperwork, once approved, take the new toy home.

 

[chuckusaret]

I brought a real SKS and a real Russian AK47 back from Nam in 1968. Both were lost in Katrina. I am not a fan of the Russian weapons, they remind me of the old .45 caliber grease gun, in other words a POS

 

[Eschaton]

Just come down to Az, you can pick from 20 different models in stock at our local gun shop; appropriately named Full Auto Weapons. Pay for the gun, pay the $200 tax, fill out paperwork, once approved, take the new toy home.

And where is this Full Auto Weapons? Phoenix area?

 

[Halo is for Kids]

I think he means US auto weapons in Scottsdale. It's in the strip mall north of the scottsdale gun club.

http://www.usautoweapons.com/pgs/Home.php

 

[Eschaton]

Hm.

I'll have to check it out next weekend on spring break.

 

[A/C Guy]

I think he means US auto weapons in Scottsdale. It's in the strip mall north of the scottsdale gun club.

Yeah, what he wrote.

 

[makarovnik]

It was fun, except for the depression and prohibition.

 

[chuckusaret]

I have always said gun owners are their own worst enemy. The anti gun people just love to see places like this. Adds ammo to their cause against the normal rifle and pistol shooter. The owner of this store just loves all the talk about AWB's, he just raises his prices and sells more weapons to people who have never fired one, or in most cases, never owned a weapon before.

 

[Sam1911]

The anti gun people just love to see places like this. Adds ammo to their cause against the normal rifle and pistol shooter.

First off, the anti gun people love to hate ALL guns. Get that point, ok? Hiding behind your ownership of only "safe" or "friendly" guns will only weaken the cause.

And what the he!! do you mean "normal" rifle and pistol shooters? I'm a "normal" rifle and pistol shooter and that most definitely includes items such as those. I'm not a "bunny-gun only shooter" because that's not NORMAL!

I have always said gun owners are their own worst enemy. The owner of this store just ... sells more weapons to people who have never fired one, or in most cases, never owned a weapon before.

He's an example of "our own worst enemy" beacuse he sells guns to folks who are just getting into it? Bringing new folks over to our side is BAD? What kind of "fouled"-up logic is THAT?

I brought a real SKS and a real Russian AK47 back from Nam in 1968. Both were lost in Katrina.

And that was a registered and legal-to-import AK47, correct? Wouldn't want you to admit to a federal felony on a public forum, now would we?

-Sam

 

[propex]

I sure hope that place has a great security system. Looks like a gang members dream

 

[Shung]

actually it looks more like MY dream !

 

[TexasRifleman]

Was there any extra red tape?
Were they available in large numbers?
Was there even much of a demand?
Were they reasonably priced with their semi-auto competitors?

Red tape was the same, pretty much since 1934. Most gun dealers didn't mess with NFA, even before the Hughes Amendment. You had to hunt for an NFA dealer.

Large numbers, depends on what you wanted. AR, Uzi, Mac conversions were available as many as you wanted, since you could make them. Thompsons, BAR's, other military stuff of course was still more rare, but didn't really bring a premium at the time. Browning MGs were plentiful as well, since the conversion back from deactivated was relatively simple with the sideplate.

Demand, surprisingly little. It was a niche thing pretty much as it is now, even with the lower prices.

Prices were cheaper, sure. First the conversions were dirt cheap so you would buy the semi auto then do the conversion, or have it done. That was usually a couple hundred bucks at most. Also, the WWII stuff was collectible but not nearly as big a deal then as it was after Saving Private Ryan etc came out. I bought a BAR for less than $1000, and a Walther MPL submachinegun for $350 bucks. They were considered "junk" since they were not in particularly good cosmetic shape. It was cheaper to buy a nice one than try to restore "old junk" back then.

 

[Zoogster]

And that was a registered and legal-to-import AK47, correct? Wouldn't want you to admit to a federal felony on a public forum, now would we?

Before the GCA of 1968 it was perfectly legal to import full auto firearms, and you could register them.
The military was also more friendly to it.

Here is some text from here:
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2008/06/marine_wartrophies_061508w/

Service members in World War II and Vietnam faced fewer rules than those in place today. Military regulations and international laws of war prevent the pillaging of government property, personal items and black-market goods, and control what service members are allowed to bring home. The Corps’ standing order on “Control and Registration of War Trophies and War Trophy Firearms” — MCO 5800.6A — dates back to 1969, when the rules began to tighten as Vietnam began winding down.

After the GCA of 1968 only domestic machineguns and homemade machineguns and conversions were legal.
No more imports. The Hughes Amendment voted on by voice (and not certainly passed, the speaker simply decided it was) when many members that would have opposed it left for the day 1986 would end domestic ones as well.

For those who illegaly brought back unpapered guns in Korean and Vietnam wars they had an NFA amnesty.
They allowed owners to register thier firearms with no consequences. Thousands did and thousands did not.
That means even many who did not go through the proper process initialy then had an amnesty that made everything they registered legal.

So there is a lot of Vietnam and previous legaly registered War Trophies before 1968, and before military policy change on gun war trophies in 1969.


Or for a simplified version given here from website:

So, what’s a transferable gun??

The simple answer is, "It’s a NFA Machine Gun that an individual can own that is registered in the NFRTR as a transferable." Obviously it's more complex than that and the real question is, "How did a Machine Gun become registered in the NFRTR as transferable?"

Essentially there are 2 ways that a Machine Gun became transferable.

1. It was registered (often very reluctantly) by an individual between 1934 and the end of 1968 either by admitting to possessing an unregistered Machine Gun or the November 2, 1968 to December 1, 1968 registration amnesty permitted by GCA68. (The actuality is that voluntary registrations continued trickling into 1971. In the 1971 decision in US v. Freed, The Supremes interpreted the amended NFA of GCA68 and "compelling self-incrimination" implications and prohibited further voluntary registrations except by additional amnesty periods. ATF has not allowed any additional amnesty periods.)

2. It was made by a foreign manufacturer and registered prior to the end of 1968 or made and registered by a domestic manufacturer before May 19, 1986. Further the domestic manufacturer could have been anyone filing a Form 1 (Application to Make and Register a Firearm) and producing a complete automatic weapon or the conversion parts such as auto sears or bolts required to make one.

So illegal guns were still being allowed registration until 1971. Between 1971 and 1986 only those who obtained thier NFA stamps in the proper manner were legaly added. Since that allowed the ATF to arrest or to grant legal registration at thier complete discretion that practice was declared unconstitional. Outside of an amnesty it required self incrimination to obtain a legal status.

 

[Zach S]

It was fun, except for the depression and prohibition.

Every time I think of a real gem like this one someone beats me to it.