What was life like during the AWB era?

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Come visit NY if you really want to see. You can step backwards in time without any of that scientific stuff.
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Ditto... our CA "progressives" can zip you back to 1994 faster than you can say Slick Willie.
 
eazyrider said:
What was life like during the AWB era?

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I was around but I wasn't into guns. If you had a high capacity magazine did you have to turn it in? Or if you just put it into a closet could you bring it to the range or what? What were ammo prices, higher or lower? This period intrigues me and I just want to learn some insight from those that were active in the firearm community during that time. Were gun prices higher? Were there fewer gun shops, more? Stuff like that. What were gun shows like then?
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I remember the AWB very well, and it was during a time period when I was spending a lot of time visiting gun shows. During that time period you could still possess "high" capacity magazines (I say "high" in quotes, since they were standard capacity), so long as they were made before the ban. For that reason it was pretty common to see used magazines being sold at gun shows for prices that kept getting higher and higher over time.

Magazines for AK variants were still easy to find in standard capacity, as were older mil-surplus AR-15 magazines. Some of the high capacity Glock magazines were selling for $125-150/ea, if you could even find them, and milspec M-14 magazines (for the M1A) were getting pretty pricey if I recall correctly. I purchased a plastic high-cap magazine for my 10-22 a couple of years after the ban, and it cost me $25, which seemed a little bit high in those days. By 2000-01 or so I saw those same magazines selling for $50+ at some gun shows.

The other aspect of the assault weapons ban obvious dealt with the firearms themselves. As you probably already know, this ridiculous piece of legislation mostly neutered firearms based upon cosmetic features (flash hiders, collapsible stocks, bayonet lugs, etc). During the ban years many of the manufacturers produced ban-compliant firearms, and from a mechanical perspective these firearms operated just like their banned siblings.

During the ban years I purchased a Bushmaster AR-15 for around $700. A used pre-ban configuration of this type of gun was running between $1,500-2,500, if I recall correctly (depending upon manufacturer and model).

Just as supply and demand has impacted the availability of select-fire guns these days, the AWB cut sharply into the availability of firearms that were equipped with "pre-ban" features. The lower receivers of these pre-ban firearms were the most valued, since they were the item that was considered the gun. However, I believe the law stated that the receiver must have been assembled into a pre-ban configuration PRIOR to the ban for such a receiver to be assembled in that manner during the ban.

Regardless, I remember hearing rumors about unethical dealers who were popping up at some of the gun shows. Some of these guys were reportedly taking big risks by assembling pre-ban parts (which could still be found in the form of AR-15 upper receivers) onto a post-ban lower receiver, then trying to pass these firearms off to unsuspecting consumers as "pre-ban" firearms, selling them at the inflated prices that these guns usually carried. Obviously the guns that these shady dealers had assembled were illegal, but from time-to-time you'd hear about such things popping up on tables at gun shows.

Beyond the economics associated with the AWB, I'd say that mid to late 1990's were also a period when a lot of somewhat valid concerns were circulating within the shooting community. Bill Clinton was president, and had supported the now expired AWB. He was also justifiably regarded as an anti-gun president, and many people were worried about the possibility of additional bans/restrictions coming down the legislative pipeline. There was much talk about the "end" of the 2nd Ammendment, and the possibility of an outright ban on gun ownership. Though this type of legislation was never brought before congress, the AWB gave gun owners pause to consider the possibility of such laws.

Just as we've seen in the past two years, there were many examples of people hoarding guns/magazines/ammo during the ban years. The prized items were different than the items we are seeing today, but the concept was the same: some folks acquired as many pre-ban magazines as they could, figuring that they could later resell them for a substantial profit down the road. Others attempted to invest similarly in pre-ban firearms. And, a third group of folks stockpiled any and all of these items at home, fearing that the government would soon send the black helicopters to pick up their loved ones. Many of the rest of the folks who were involved in shooting sports fell somewhere between these categories, just as they do today.

From a mechanical standpoint, I believe that the AWB may have led to a decade-long shift in opinions (among many folks) regarding which firearms were ideal for defensive use. By way of a loosely defined example: prior to the ban you could choose between a Glock 17 chambered in 9mm with a magazine capacity of 17 rounds, or perhaps a 1911 chambered in .45 ACP, with an 8-round magazine capacity. During the ban years the Glock 17 was restricted to 10-round magazines, and the comparison between the advantages of the 9mm versus .45 lost one dimension. Suddenly the .45ACP and 9mm had very similar magazine capacities, which reduced the viability of the 9mm in some people's mind.

Similarly, newly designed pistols/rifles during these years were made with the assumption that they'd always be limited to a 10-rd magazine capacity. As such, some new firearms were made to take only single-stack magazines, since the capacity cap was set at 10 rounds.


Anyway, that's my view of the AWB, and I hope that most people find it to be a fair and balanced perspective :)
 
If you want a good laugh, check out this PDF of a flyer on the VPC's website from the time period: http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/SporterizationComparison.pdf

Take a good look at the "pre-ban AK-47" picture in the lower left corner and see if you notice anything, off, about it.

I wonder how long it was before they realized that their intern who did an images.google.com search for AK-47 had messed up, if they noticed that is?
 
You gotta remember that the AWB was modeled on the NJ AWB law that came before it by a few years, a law which is still on the books in that dark place, and still vigorously enforced. Yes, people are in *jail*, actual "don't lean over, leave that soap right where it is" *jail* over this sort of thing.

NJ' law had a grandfather mechanism. If you owned a gun then newly described as an "AW", you had to register it. After a certain date, the registry was *closed*, an viola, anyone possessing an AW not registered to them became an insta-felon.

As a consequence, grandfathered "AW"s cannot be transferred, new ones cannot be purchased, and if you move in from out of state with one, you're SOL. and quite likely, vulnerable to felony charges.

Sorry.
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Does New Jersey have a list of banned rifles?
California has their list, and you cannot own anything on it. A Colt AR15 is illegal. You can buy a lower that is not banned, Spike's Stag, Aero Precision, etc, and everything from your Colt is moved onto the legal "Off List Lower." It's now legal, because you changed the name.
 
Prices shot up overnight. AKs and ARs started going for $2,000 as a panic buy set in like what we saw in 2008-2009 but worse. I bought a Glock in about 1997 and at the gunshows pre-ban glock factory standard capacity mags were going for $70-$120. Crime rates weren't affected (whod've thunk it, lawbreakers now following a law?). Standard capacity mags made during the ban were labeled "Mil/LE Use Only". Gunmakers quickly adapted and started making guns with thumbhole stocks, no bayonet lugs or flash hiders. These were usually referred to as "neutered" rifles, but they brought the prices back down to sane levels.

It cost the Democrats dearly at the polls and ended a lot of political careers, which is probably why nobody wants to touch the subject currently.
 
Actually, the AWB was a farce. All it accomplished was a demand for stuff that few people even paid much attention to before (Who cared about flash suppressors or bayonet lugs in the 80s?) You could still buy anything you wanted. I bought AKs, FALs, AR-15s, CZ-75s and tons of "pre-ban" hi-cap mags. The economy was better, so ammo was cheaper. Some mags were cheaper or about the same. Pre-ban guns were a little higher, but that was about it. I was waiting for a big price drop when the AWB ended, but that never really happened overall ( some guns were cheaper to buy, but then higher ammo prices made the reoccurring cost of shooting them higher), mostly due to other factors I guess.
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+1 about that. It was a non-event. No one other than the pols and us shooters knew or cared. You could get anything that you wanted or needed. I bought all of my semi-auto military firearms and all of my hi-cap mags for them during the AWB. No problem and I didn't overpay.
Ammo was cheaper. Everything was cheaper. Housing, food, fuel, cigarettes, ammo, guns, permits, movies, tuition......etc., everything.
Pete
 
Reminds me, someone needs to tell HK that they can make rifles with mags that hold more than 10 rounds and pistol grips again.
 
I'll never forget the horror. There were the sleepless nights, families huddled in the secret fruit cellars below the house. Not knowing if it was just the wind blowing, or the Clintonistas about to kick in the doors, searching for contraband magazines. My brother, intoxicated with his obsession over large capacity magazines, squandered his money at gunshows, paying premiums for the few remaining hi-caps on the black market, leaving him and his son without money for food. We tried to get him help, but there was no reasoning with him. Magazine hoarders were the worst. They knew exactly how to tempt us; pulling out only one or two at a time, and demanding five times what they were worth. But we HAD to have them. AR-15's and fat gripped 9mm's sat in corners and under beds; no one even THOUGHT about shooting them, because it just wasn't fun anymore. There was secret talk in hidden rooms, and there was the hatred. Hatred of the government, hatred of the magazine hoarders. Self-loathing because we didn't see it coming. They blindsided us! And the clowns. Oh, it's easy to hate clowns. And I hated clowns, mostly because we were hating everything at that time. The times were so dark and sad. Oh, it was a dark period, for ten years. People started shooting their 1911's again, because, what was the point? We'd never see high capacity guns again. Oh, sure, they'd DESIGN them, but only cops and the government guys could buy them...they only came with 10 shot mags for us second class citizens. I couldn't shoot the few high capacity guns that I owned, for fear of being caught, or damaging a priceless magazine that could never be repaced. I never want to go back to that again! I can still remember the pain, and the loneliness. And those damn clowns. I still hate them.
 
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Yep, the old days - internet discussions on - can I add a new stock to my rifle or do I have to start shooting. Or- I just won the lotto or robbed a bank - so should I spend it all on a couple of Glock mags or just buy more ammo and a small third world country.

Later of course there were the massive firefights - negotiating cease fires to bury the dead, tend to the wounded, and reload all those ten round magazines. Pretty dicey for awhile since we couldn't fix bayonets for a final charge.

Yet in the end we won - I'll never forget the night that the president announced the surrender on national tv - or the words he spoke - "I did not have sex with that woman, and oh yeah, we surrender too."
 
The AWB affected pistols and shotguns, as well as rifles. Aside from the ideas that made no sense all (bayonet lugs?), the notion was to curb weapons with large capacity magazines that could be easily hidden under clothing. The law was so stupidly written that the effect fell entirely on the law-abiding gun owner without reducing the risk to the public from bad guys at all.
 
It was a great time were murders and violent crime were reduced by 100% across the country, prisons were emptied, everyone sang the Redemption Song together and unicorns danced across rainbows everyday. Then came the sunset provision and ruined it all.
 
The AWB is being treated with humor in this thread, and I find that very worrisome. Maybe the time is ripe for a new AWB, since so many people here think it was not a problem.
 
the notion was to curb weapons with large capacity magazines that could be easily hidden under clothing
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Have seen in print, repeatedly, that DiFi had a staffer who was given a copy of Guns Digest and a marks-a-lot, and told to "circle anything that looks like a machine gun" which is how the original list of "banned" weapons was generated. From a purely cosmetic basis. Logic may be applied to politics, but politics rarely applies logic.

AWB was a strange time to not be a conspiracy wacko. Nothing made any sense. Folding bayonets were removed from SKS'a--there were so many, they were about $2 each at gunshows (remember one where they were selling 'PRC tent pegs', you got 10 spike bayonets for $12).

It was a time where you never knew what new sort of idiocy you'd hear when buying "ammunition feeding devices." Saw a fellow had used M60 links. He had vacuum-sealed them, 10 to the package, "to be legal"--but no limit on how many packages he'd sell you.

MG links were also dicey, as ATF took almost 4 years to decide that the box of links they were selling to DoD was where the "Military or Law Enforcement Use Only" and the manufacture date and serial number needed to be printed. A close read of the letter of the law seemed to indicate that MG links needed that printed on each link. Mostly, only Reserve and NG units suffered for that. But, I saw some pristine Vickers' belts stenciled with a manufacture date, and the "M/LE Use only" designator.

If my (wobbly) memory provides, in the decade of the Federal AWB, there were either 6 or 7 arrests, total. And not one conviction. The State AWB, CA, MA, and NJ, on the other hand, have been rather more aggressive in enforcement.

Probably hundreds of millions spent, wasted, on the AWB, and to no effect at all. Other than to cement an idea that cosmetic appearance was more important than the mens rea of criminality.
 
Does New Jersey have a list of banned rifles?
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Yes. The mechanism for identifying an AW was the thing most directly copied to the federal AWB. NJ has a list of "banned by name", and a fallback mechanism of "banning by evil feature count".

CA and subsequent state level AWBs "improved" on the matter, in that they observed the response of the market to the restrictions, and then attempted to close the "loopholes" that were commonly exploited.

Remember: "loophole" is just another name for a remnant of freedom: a lawful activity that someone else doesn't want you to have.
 
The topic is being treated with humor because of the way the first post was worded. Yes, the AWB sucked, but it wasn't the end of the world or a life changing piece of legislation.
 
I feel that the ban on hi cap (or normal cap) mags led to an increase in concealed carry and larger calibers. Don't get me wrong. The ban on hi capacity mags was stupid, useless and nothing more than politics. It did however get a lot of people to consider buying smaller more concealable handguns. Why buy a full size 9mm with a 10 rnd mag when you could buy a smaller version that carries well and has the same capacity? If you have a full sized service pistol and can only have 10 rnds in a mag then why not make it .40S&W or .45acp?
 
As usual ColoradoKevin articulated very well impact.

I will also add that the AWB did more to HARM the anti-gun movement than help. It was a temporary 'victory' that cost them dearly. It cost Democrats valuable seats in Congress; it cost them their reputations; it cost taxpayers millions of wasted dollars on pointless legislation and enforcement; and the ONE thing it really did is WAKE up the 2nd Amendment folks, who realized that this was the wave of the future.

I've heard that the AWB caused gun sales to SKYROCKET and we experienced something similar with the anti-gun reputation of the current admin when they were elected.

Guns like the AR15 and AK47 platform which may have been uncommon and therefore 'scary' and easy targets in 1993 are WIDELY owned and accepted part of culture now (well maybe not according to the SCOTUS)...

Anyway, it made folks realize they better start buying up stuff that the government doesn't think they should own...

I shutter to think that it nearly was a permanent fixture...
 
I kinda got screwed by the AWB. The feds had seized my income tax fund. Something about income tax on wifes pay from army 5 years earlier not having been paid. Wife was intransit from Walter Reed to Wm Beaumont AMC at Ft Bliss when initial letter arrived. I called IRS told them every year since we were married in 1973 we had filed a joint return and paid our taxes. They asked about 1985, being a dummy I asked if that was a year since 1973 and again stated we had filed jointly every year since 73. Seems as though the army had given IRS payroll tape. IRS compared to SSANs on Tax Returns. IRS program only checked primary SSAN, left hand column. Did not check send SSANs listed on returns. Anyway IRS said it was my wifes taxes they could not talk to me about her taxes. I told them no they were our taxes as we always filed joint returns. They would not discuss matter or research their own records.

Short story long in 94 they seized a considerable refund I was going to use to by a Springfield Armory Ultra Match, they were going for about 1950 at the time. By the time I worked all thru the system and got my refund in August the AWB was signed by Slick Willy and the basic model M1 A went from 1400 to 1950. I could not afford the 25 - 2700 for the ultra match. 20 round GI mags that had been in the 15 17 range went up to 60 l to 70 bucks. After a year or so bought a wooden stock had a buddy bed it. A couple of years later had the rifle rebarreled with a douglas heavy target barrel and the same buddy rebedded the rifle. Shot right at a minute at 100 yards, with my 47 y/o eyes and iron sights.

Even though the rifle shot well I still am mad at the IRS for screwing me out of the ultra match with the lugged receiver over taxes they wanted that had already been paid and even though they were "My Wifes" taxes, the IRS had no problem seizing "My Taxes" to pay for the taxes not owed. My goodness how do those that actually owe taxes get by having settlements for lesser amounts?
 
it wasn't the end of the world or a life changing piece of legislation.
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Tell that to folks who went to prison for technical violations....

The AWB and similar laws in local jurisdictions have certainly ended some folks freedoms simply because they possessed some trivial banned item.
 
I think the biggest thing it accomplish was made the gun community stronger, Pistols smaller and the AR-15 the most common used rifle today.

Can you say unintended consequences.
 
Great stuff guys and some of the comments were damn funny. I was looking for education not a laugh but I got both. Bayonet charge.....HA! That was great.
 
The 1994 AWB spurred me to a more public activism in favor of gun rights. I recall conversations with my Dad about "assault rifles" then, and my general attitude that I wanted everything legal. They were just semi-auto rifles.

At that time, I couldn't have cared less about most of the AK's and AR's. I just was not there yet. But I did buy an Uzi Mini-Carbine which I shot and acquired extra magazines for. I felt that it was not sufficiently accurate for a rifle. It would have been nice if it was a full auto, but it wasn't. I sold it and made a small profit (about 30%). They later skyrocketed in price in the US because of the ban on importation of the Uzi rifles.

Revolvers were cheap then. Gunshows were fairly good. I went to a lot of shows between 1990 and 1998.
 
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