What will four years under Kerry spell for gun owners?

[Monkeyleg]

All of the above points are indeed valid. We're an eternity from the election. But the hatred for Bush from liberals and even some moderately liberal types is palpable. I think they hate Bush more than I hated Clinton.

If we don't see significant improvement in Iraq and some good jobless numbers before November, I'm going to be very worried.

What's funny about the "economy" issue is that everyone I know seems to be doing fairly well. They just think that people they don't know are having a bad time.

 

[RealGun]

But the hatred for Bush from liberals and even some moderately liberal types is palpable. I think they hate Bush more than I hated Clinton. - Monkeyleg

That strikes me as overheated. I see Dems as simply wanting to be in power. There is an election campaign going on. Nobody hates anybody. Even Bubba is hard to dislike. Now Kerry is hard to "like". It is really what people stand for that is at issue. It's the old "attack the idea, not the person" thing.

Liberals were not going to vote for Bush in any case. No need to hate anybody. They're Democrats, period. The worst they will do is get mad if they're losing.

 

[Reno]

RealGun, your view on the situation is extremely optimistic.

There is a LOT of rabid, irrational libs that absolutely hate Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al.

 

[benEzra]

RealGun, if you want to see genuine Bush hatred, head over to Democratic Underground. I have also seen some on Kerry's web forum, although things are actually pretty civil over there.

 

[UnknownSailor]

I'm not worried. I predict Bush by a landslide.

I saw an interesting tidbit a couple of days ago. Kerry was only up over Bush in California by 4 points. The conclusion by the blog reporting this: California is in play.

If the Dems have to campaign in California, it's over, IMO. No California, no President Kerry. Period.

Also, with Big Media shooting themselves in the foot on a nightly basis lately, I expect the heavy negetive media blitz we all know is coming to not have much effect. How many of us actually watch TV or read the papers for news anymore?

Hell, I have 24 hour Fox news access out here in the Gulf, but I never watch it.

I actually look forward to seeing the Moore's in the world start foaming at the mouth when their party looses big.

Now, if the impossible happens, and Kerry actually does get elected? I predict that his administration will be so hamstrung by election fallout (and an un-cooperative House) that he will be an ineffectual one-termer, much like Carter was. I just hope that these Wahabbists we are currently fighting don't get their hands on a nuke, because they will use it, and the fallout from that I'd just as rather not see in my lifetime, TYVM.

 

[RealGun]

Well, if your talking about THOSE people, why take them seriously? Some aren't even old enough to vote. Others are old enough to know better.

 

[fallingblock]

Kerry in the White House?



Monkeyleg, I think you've got it right:

************************************************************
"I think they hate Bush more than I hated Clinton"
************************************************************

I cannot remember such gratuitous and vindictive animosity before any other presidential election held since I've been voting.

The media here in Australia picks up on a lot of the worst anti-Bush sentiment and passes it on as "the mood in the U.S.".

I have folks who have never been to the U.S. and have only ABC to rely on for news come up to me and ask me how anyone in the U.S. could have voted for such a disaster as "Dubya".

My reply?

"If you think 'Dubya' is bad, wait 'til you see a Kerry Presidency".

 

[Geech]

What's funny about the "economy" issue is that everyone I know seems to be doing fairly well. They just think that people they don't know are having a bad time.

Definitely true. Historically, Americans tend to ignore their own personal finances and base their views on the economy on a more general perception. Job numbers have been doing well lately and I believe they'll continue to do well. By November, people may well be feeling more confident about the economy. I believe some of the latest polls have already put Bush's economy numbers above Kerry's.

 

[standingbear]

Maybe we could keep our pellet guns and .22's as long as we were members of a gun club and could store them there and show that we were involved in competition.

guess again.in some states..bb guns are considered firearms and one must register them as a firearm-this way of thinking will just be a start.bows an arrows folks....bows and arrows.

 

[ShaiVong]

I'm a good shot with a recurve, and I doubt that soft body armor would stop a bodkin point.

One shot and I've got myself some PO issue weapons.

 

[0luke1]

Play the odds:

1. The mess in Iraq is more likely to get worse than better.

2. The terrorists won in Spain and very well could pull a similar action here.

I don't think Kerry can WIN the election, but I think it's more likely that the odds are that events will cause this president to LOSE the election because he's not prepared. He hasn't done himself any favors:

Nobody has been fired for 9/11. Nobody has been fired for not finding the WMD (which probably doesn't exist). Nobody has been fired for the POW abuse. Nobody has been fired so funds can be put to fighting terrorism after merging all those agencies into the Dept. of Homeland Defense. (170,000 employees and no redundancies? Please.) Airport security is still a joke and anyone who rides Amtrak knows how much danger we're all in. Port security can't be much better. The competant Colin Powell is on the outside!

Given all of this, even with another catastrophy, I don't think the public which already votes republican is moving or will move against republican positions. IMHO, that means there's a good chance that we'll have a Democrat in the white house and a republican house and/or senate.

Gridlock is the best government - especially for gun owners.

As for me, this president's refusal to take responsibility for his mistakes plus his inability to get much right combined with his naked grab for our civil rights ("patriot" act, FCC, etc.), makes him a non-starter.

I miss Ronald Reagan.

 

[Reno]

Nobody has been fired for not finding the WMD (which probably doesn't exist).

I think you need to pay more attention to current events. We have found WMD. Multiple types even. Think most people not knowing that *might* have something to do with the media being against Bush? We get "No WMD exist blah blah blah" for months, we find them, and there's little more than a quick blurb, and it's completely out of the news.

Gridlock is the best government - especially for gun owners.

Not if we're going to get rid of the 1986 MG ban and the 1934 NFA. However, that's beyond unlikely at this time. The only way we can truly have gridlock is with good men in the House. Tom Delay, for example. Our "friends" in the senate have already proven themselves to be beyond useless.

 

[RealGun]

This thread is being hijacked. It is "what if John Kerry", not an invitation for Bush bashing. 'Just my opinion.

 

[Art Eatman]

You're right, RealGun, but notice that long threads tend to go wandering about a bit--and more than just a bit.

So, Kerry and guns and the meaning of the juxtaposition of the twain.

Art

 

[RevDisk]

Personally, I don't think of myself as a liberal or a conservative. I try to look at things from a common sense perspective. Unfortunately, common sense isn't very common these days. Both the left and right scream louder and louder, drowning out rational voices.

If Kerry was elected president, a different group of rich people will profit from pork contracts. Basically, that's the only difference I see.

Guns are but a part of civil liberties. Bush is no friend to protecting civil liberties, and is not a very gun friendly politician. He doesn't want to lose the gun vote, so he's very quiet on that front. But he's still anti gun.

With a Republican president and Congress, plus a rather conservative supreme court, why is the Clinton Gun Ban still in effect? Why is the BATFE still allowed to use the tactics they use? Why are the import laws still screwy? Bush's record on civil liberties, guns included, are rather scary.

Remember that $87 billion dollar package for US forces in Iraq. Look closely how much of that was simply pork. A good amount of it paid for cops to beat the hell out of protesters at the FTAA in Miami. Look up footage of the FTAA, that is the future.


Personally, I think either way the election goes, civil liberties have lost. The deficits will rise, so will taxes, regardless of the election. Civil liberties will continue to go bye bye. Kerry doesn't want to pull out of Iraq or Afghanistan, so we'll be paying for those two countries for a long time.

I think the AWB will die in Sept. Republicans AND Democrats will go gun grabber only after the election. I simply hope to have enough time between the AWB sunsetting and the elections to buy some nice toys.

In my opinion, the only difference between the Republicans and Democrats is which groups of rich people get tax breaks and pork contracts. As much as they may not like each other, they will fight tooth and nail to clamp down on third parties.

As many others have said, does it matter if the boot is left or right?

FYI, no guns are technically 'banned'. It's just a matter of price. If you have money and connections, you can buy/carry whatever you want. All the "gun grabbers" (Repub or Dem) will do is raise the price so ordinary Americans can't afford the evil looking weapons.

I'm predicting a major tax on ammo. Then on reloading. One inch at a time, one inch at a time. When I heard serious talk of editting the Constitution to deny rights to a certain group of people, I knew things were getting bleak. (Not gonna get into the politics of whether Same Sex marriage is good or bad, but think about it. If Bush starts editting the Constitution to deny rights to select groups...)

Aside from something like the Free State Project, I don't see much progress ever being made to deregulate weapons. Either way the election goes, it's just a matter of time.

 

[RealGun]

The thread is not an invitation for LP campaign speeches either.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Our "friends" in the senate have already proven themselves to be beyond useless.

Talk about painting with a broad brush, 47% of the people in the Senate stood up for us and voted our way and we are calling them useless? The trouble is 47% isn't a majority, it is just close.

So if you don't like the way that vote went down, this November gives us an excellent chance to change it. Five of the Senators who voted against us (i.e. enough to swing the vote) are retiring this year and they are all from pro-gun Southern states.

Furthermore, one of the people who backstabbed us (Tom Daschle of ND) is running a close-election and is afraid of gun-owners at the polls.

All in all, we stand an excellent chance of coming up with a Senate that will be able to break filibusters against pro-gun judicial nominees and vote for pro-gun legislation instead of just gridlocking to prevent more. The difference is going to be whether gunowners can muster the votes needed to put those people in power.

Get active now! If you aren't registered and there are no pro-gun candidates who survive the primary stage, then you can't do much to help in November!

 

[carp killer]

Furthermore, one of the people who backstabbed us (Tom Daschle of ND) is running a close-election and is afraid of gun-owners at the polls.

Tom Daschle is from South Dakota. Please don't insult North Dakotans.

 

[Waitone]

Nonetheless, the Worm from South Dakota is indeed in deep yogurt with his re-election. I think he has already determined he will lose.

Last year he bought a major house in Georgetown. That is always a sign a politician is going to spend more time with his family.

 

[ShaiVong]

Last year he bought a major house in Georgetown. That is always a sign a politician is going to spend more time with his family.

Lucky them

 

[Reno]

No, lucky us

How did Daschle "stab us in the back?" Has he ever been pro-gun?

And it wasn't just the AWB extension, the senate voted for mandatory gun locks and the use thereof 70-27, and McCain's gun show ban 53-46.

Both my senators have their heads on straight though. Voting against all that rubbish, both even cosponsored the bill to repeal the DC gun ban.

 

[jfh]

once again, Bartholomew Roberts

nails the election issues cold. The rest of us wander around in a (political) morass of mental masturbation.

Art's in there, too--common sense astute.

I wish you two would post more.

Jim H.

 

[The Rabbi]

Sorry to piss all over the nattering nabobs of negativism here. Lets review the contentions,
1) Kerry is not going to win. It is very seldom that Americans turn out an incumbent president, especially in times of crisis. The last one I remember was Carter and he was totally inept and facing a master politician. Bush has done very well being underestimated by the opposition. He has a huge grass roots org out there and lots of money. Polls at this stage are meaningless. Kerry has floated the idea(?) of delaying his nomination. This is not the act of a confident man. Let's see what happens after the conventions.
2) Even if Kerry does win (Gd forbid), he will have a hard time getting any legislation through. Gun bans and the like are losing issues for politicians. They get little extra support and incur a lot of harsh criticism from folks like us. All the polls show this. All the pols believe this. Gore lost in TN mainly on this issue. It is not a winner and no one will stake his political reputation on it.
Yes, maybe BATF rules will become stricter or something and that would be terrible. But I just dont see the Armaggedon English style that is being predicted here.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

I agree with The Rabbi.

 

[Monkeyleg]

The Rabbi, I think your reference to "nattering nabobs of negativism" may be lost on at least a few THR members. Unfortunately, it's not on those my age.

Bush 41 had just one term, although he ran on VP credentials. A minor point maybe, or maybe not. Likewise Gerald Ford. Same situation with Johnson. So, we have to go back to the 1950's to find a presidential candidate who ran on his own and served two terms. From then, we have Nixon, Reagan and Clinton. On the flip side we have Johnson, Ford, Carter, and Bush 41. Looks to me like the conventional wisdom on incumbents is equally split.

Kerry is floating the idea of delaying the nomination so as to be unencumbered by campaign finance rules that he voted for, and Bush signed. It's an unusual move, but this is the first time that candidates have had to abide by unconstitutional constraints on fund-raising. If Kerry took the nomination in July, he'd lose 25-50 million in contributions. Too bad our legiscritters on both sides didn't see this coming.

And I believe you underestimate the power of the President to rally the public--and thus pressure opposition party members--to vote for anti-gun bills. Clinton did so masterfully. The only reason we haven't see any anti-gun legislation out of GW is that he: a) is really pro-2A; or b) he doesn't see the need to enrage his base. I think it's a combination of the two.

Kerry, on the other hand, is still indebted to his own base, which includes the usual suspects. Especially Ted Kennedy, who has been stumping harder for Kerry than any other Dem. All it's going to take is for there to be one school shooting, or one McDonald's shooting, and Kerry will have a massive press conference, with a Clintonesque phalanx of the usual PD brass behind him. And the public will buy it.

Since Bush took office, there have been some large-scale shootings. His response has been to blame the lack of character of the shooter, the lack of moral leadership, the need for this or that or the other. You may not like it, but you'll notice he hasn't blamed the gun.

Kerry will be just as hard on guns as Clinton--maybe worse. He, like Clinton, will go out and shoot a duck to claim his firearms heritage. Sarah Brady, Chuck Schumer and the rest may have to hold their noses, but they will get what they want from him. If this election is as close as it appears to be right now, Kerry will be beholden to every left-wing group that kept silent during the campaign. And, once elected, Kerry will be required to deliver.

The same can be said about GW, except that he isn't beholden to the anti's. The only anti-gun message that GW has delivered is that he would sign the AW ban renewal if it reached his desk. Back in 2001, GW took Tom DeLay aside and told him "Tom, you don't have to worry about a thing."

Draw your own conclusions.