What would be so bad about an AR w/an 11.5" barrel and a 5.5" FH?

[MMcfpd]

Through the ravages of unchecked BRD, I've wound up with almost another one, and I'm not sure just how I want to bring it onto the world.

What lurks in the primordial soup of the parts box(es) includes a slickside flattop upper receiver, a lower with an Ace Ultra Light stock and a Geissele trigger, an unused Matech BUIS and a Burris FastFire in a LaRue IronDot mount. All that I lack to make it a rifle is a bolt, bolt carrier, handguards and a barrel assembly.

Past thinking on my part has always held the 11.5" barrel with the 5.5" flash hider to be sort of a duck out of water; the shorter barrel loses some velocity and with that FH you don't gain much of the handling advantages of a shorter rifle.

But I've got 14.5", 16" and 20" ARs, and I don't really want to bother with an SBR right now. The 11.5"'s allure is simply that I've never tried that before, and the parts I'm starting with definitely point in the direction of a lightweight, shorter range build.

Obviously, with no set barrel or bolt yet, I could build an alternate caliber. But I have no real interest in a 6.8 (expensive ammo) or a .22LR, and I've already got ARs in .45 ACP, 7.62x39 and .50BEO. Another possibilty I've considered would be a 14.5" 7.62x39 with a permanent FH, but Sabre is the only one offering one, and they're very proud of those barrels (~$600).

So is there some overwhelming downside to the 11.5"/5.5" combo, outside of the .44/.308 fellas pointin' and snickering when I take it out to the range? Is there another possible direction I might consider?

 

[RyanM]

My understanding is that the 5.5" flash hiders are actually very poor at reducing flash. Other than that, take all the problems one could encounter with the 14.5" gas system (especially when used on 16" barrels) compared to longer ones, and magnify them. Shorter the barrel, the more you potentially compromise reliability.

I'd suggest getting an 11.5" .300 Whisper, and just SBR it. You can match 7.62x39mm ballistics, but you can also handload using .223 brass. Then when you feel up to another tax stamp, you can suppress it.

 

[Navy joe]

You said it, crappy ballistics and no sight radius for iron sights. That and an ATF goon with a wrench and 8 foot cheater bar breaking the silver solder holding the FH on and then calling it readily removable.

 

[Bartkowski]

Considering that the gun will be just as long as one with a 16" gun, with poor ballistics and lower reliability, why?

Its something different, yes, but that doesn't make it better or even good.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

Just kind of pointless. You lose the velocity and reliability and GAIN NOTHING in return other than looks...

If you are going to lose that kind of velocity you might as well have the advantage of the super short barrel and increased flash hider effectiveness.

I recommend an SBR if you want a barrel that short.

 

[Coronach]

I really fail to see the point. As was said, you get worse ballistics and possible reliability problems with no attendant gains in handling and compactness. What's not to hate?

I mean, will it work? Yeah, probably. But why not just get a 16" carbine or middy and be done with it?

Mike

 

[Rubber_Duck]

I think the 11.5"/5.5"FH combo is only good for those whose really want the retro XM look. And if it's less reliable, I guess you'll have retro performance too.

 

[wideym]

I was given a Colt large hole 11.5" barreled upper that had no forward assist or brass deflector several years ago by a freind who knew I had an old Colt large hole rifle.

It sat in a parts box until last year when I bought a 5.5" flash hider and soldered it on. Other than a larger flash at night it works great and has yet to malfuntion.

As far as the ATF goes, if they want you in jail, most likely you are going to jail no matter what you own.

 

[MMcfpd]

Heh. Thanks for the input. Obviously I had some reservations (besides the .44/.308 fellas pointin' and snickering) or I wouldn't have asked.

What advantages, besides lessened recoil (not a concern), accrue with a middy configuration in a 16"?

Another path yet untraveled would be putting together a piston AR, but I really don't see a lot of upside to that besides just gaining some experience with the technology. I suspect that would make for an at least slightly heavier gun, and I've read that accuracy may suffer some - I guess from having more stuff moving before the round exits the barrel, but I really don't know. I'm already quite acclimated to cleaning ARs to my satisfaction. Am I missing some of the piston AR wonderfulness?

 

[agtman]

If you want a sub-16" barrel, go the SBR route ...

I agree with RockyMtnTactical.

I have several 16" AR carbines, and they all shoot fine, but a while back I decided to "build" an SBR after seeing how a few specimens shot and handled during some tac rifle courses.

Doing some research on these micro-blasters helped me with the learning curve as to the advantages and disadvantages of going "short" with the AR system.

SBRs have their limitations, ... but the fun can be unlimited.

 

[TexasRifleman]

There is no reason for an 11.5" AR to be less reliable if properly built. Going shorter than that maybe; I've seen troubles with 10 and 7.5 but 11.5 works fine.

That said, unless you are going to SBR it and get a can or something, or building an XM177 replica, there's not much point.

 

[Taurus44]

I have a flawless, reliable 11.5" SBR myself, but why not go with a 6.5 Grendel build? You can get the 18" barrel and bolt from Alexander Arms for $320, and Wolf (brass) ammo for $11/box.

 

[MMcfpd]

What's the upside and downside to a Grendel compared to a 6.8?

 

[Monkeybear]

Well the thing is that 11.5" barrels with gigantic flashhiders are just plain bad ideas as far as practicality goes. If you are not going for "practical" and/or already have a large collection of uppers then why not? If you just have to have a 11.5" barrel go for it.

If you want a good/useful rifle go with a 16" mid length.

 

[Gunnerpalace]

with a wrench and 8 foot cheater bar breaking the silver solder holding the FH on and then calling it readily removable

Has that even happened?

 

[Chipperman]

Given the antics ATF has pulled in the past (and present), it's not far-fetched.

 

[MMcfpd]

If you are not going for "practical" and/or already have a large collection of uppers then why not?

That's how this got started.

But I don't have any mid-lengths; what's the upside to them?

 

[jad0110]

Past thinking on my part has always held the 11.5" barrel with the 5.5" flash hider to be sort of a duck out of water; the shorter barrel loses some velocity and with that FH you don't gain much of the handling advantages of a shorter rifle.

But I've got 14.5", 16" and 20" ARs, and I don't really want to bother with an SBR right now. The 11.5"'s allure is simply that I've never tried that before, and the parts I'm starting with definitely point in the direction of a lightweight, shorter range build.

Sounds like the 11.5"/5.5" is really where your BRD is leading you, why resist it ? Just like 1911 or wheelgun fever, there is no cure, you can only treat the symptoms by buying yet more EBRs, 1911s and wheelguns .

As others said, the 11.5 inchers can be quite reliable if put together right. As I said, it sounds like you really want one, so I'd just do it if I were you . As a friend of mine recently said, "to heck with the lousy gas mileage, I want a HEMI!"

But I don't have any mid-lengths; what's the upside to them?

Your 16" isn't a mid-length? Here's a good thread discussing some of the benefits of the mid-lengths:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=174879&highlight=mid+length

I am no AR expert, but my first will be a mid length flat-top because it seems to be the most well rounded and versatile of all the AR configurations.

 

[Monkeybear]

But I don't have any mid-lengths; what's the upside to them?

Midlength just refers to the placement of the gas port in the barrel. Its just a good place to put your gas port if you are using a 16" barrel, as opposed to a carbine (14.5") or rifle (20"). Makes it a little easier on your rifle/shoulder and gives you a longer sight radius if you are into iron sights.

If you just want something different, why not a pistol build or an AR-57 upper? Also don't forget you don't have any 18" barrels either You can get a stainless fluted SD barrel from Pkfirearms for $317.

 

[kcmarine]

My understanding is that they're quite a bit louder than a normal AR. I can't say much else.

 

[Taurus44]

What's the upside and downside to a Grendel compared to a 6.8?

There is a ton of good info in the 6.5 Grendel FAQ. There are even comparisons to 5.56, 7.62 and 6.8 in there. A quick scroll down to the trajectory, energy and wind drift graphs is the fastest way to have your eyes opened to the wonderful world of Grendel.

 

[B.D. Turner]

I have owned three of these and it has never failed to work properly even after 1000+ rounds. Groups off hand ran around 3" at 50 yds.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

agtman, that is one of the coolest looking EBRs I've seen. Damn I wish I didn't live in Michigan.

 

[agtman]

taurusowner:

Thank you. It's definitely been an interesting little blaster.

Didn't mean to steal MMcfpd's thread either. I'd thought about something similar, but unless you're located in a "nonpermissive" state and/or can't get the CLEO's sign-off, the question really becomes: if you're going to drop your AR's barrel length below 16", why not just go Class 3 and call it good? - i.e, a real SBR, not a wannabe.

At the following link is a write-up I penned about my experiences with this one, the build details on it, training with it and my learning curve on short-barreled ARs generally:

http://www.bren-ten.com/agtman/id9.html

Hope my experience with this SBR helps someone looking in the same direction ...

 

[Art Eatman]

Seems to me the whole deal with the .223 is like any centerfire .22: Effectiveness depends on a small bullet travelling at high velocity. Cut back to an 11.5" barrel, you might as well use a .22 Hornet.

For any civilian, 20" to 22" makes the .223 a worthwhile critter. Anything shorter, the Kool factor is outweighing the usefulness. That's fine, of course; it's a free country. Folks oughta do what they want. Then again, I'm often underwhelmed by Koolth.