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What would be the better Rifle?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by txman321, May 28, 2009.

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  1. txman321

    txman321 Member

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    I currently have a mossberg atr 100 and I was looking at a remington 700 Sps and I really like the way the remington fits me and the way the action is.

    is the remington 700 the better gun? Would it be worth it to upgrade

    this is for hunting intended purposes, trying to get my deer rig set up for this year.
     
  2. Fumbler

    Fumbler Member

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    If you like the way it fits you then that by itself is worth upgrading.

    "Better" depends on how you define it.
    The Rem 700 has better fit and finish and has huge aftermarket support.
    Both are probably equivalent in accuracy, at least if deer are your target.
    Don't buy the hype about every 700 shooting MOA. I've never seen a sporter weight 700 shoot 1MOA with factory loads.

    So, if you like it then get it. If it fits you better and you feel more comfortable with it then you will shoot it better.
     
  3. txman321

    txman321 Member

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    Hmm I may have to upgrade to it its pretty tempting, I havent had any problems with the atr but I always heard good things about the remington and it seems to fit better. Im looking at getting one in either .270 or .30-06.
     
  4. Fumbler

    Fumbler Member

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    Since you haven't bought the 700 yet, why don't you take a look at the Tikka T3?

    I have one and it fits me better than every other bolt gun I've handled. I'm 5'-8" and 170 lbs.
    The T3 has even better machining quality than the 700 and, more accurate, and with a scope it weighs the same as a 700 without scope (if weight matters to you).

    It's just MHO, but 700s are overrated.

    In the grand scheme of things all those rifles will kill a deer. Dead is dead right? Just get what makes you feel good :)
     
  5. txman321

    txman321 Member

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    what is the price range on a t3? Im looking to spend around 500-650ish if possible
     
  6. Uncle Mike

    Uncle Mike Member

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    Fumbler summed it up pretty well.

    Remingtons aint all that, especially the newer ones. 1000 screaming customers can't be all wrong. (I feel the sights on my back now) :neener:

    You can step into a Tikka for the cash your wanting to spend, if you run across a T-3 that costs more than $600 run the other way. :what:

    If it is that your just wanting a new rifle, well you have the disease... no problem! :D

    All the rifles mentioned will shoot accurately enough to swack deer ect..

    Have you checked out a Savage or Browning?
     
  7. txman321

    txman321 Member

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    i probably just want a new gun lol, i bet my atr will do fine for deer but Im itchin for a new rifle:) I want something of a lil bit higher quality
     
  8. eye5600

    eye5600 Member

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    IMHO, the thing that makes your decision hard is that although the ATR is among the least expensive rifles, it's nonetheless pretty damn good. The general level of quality for bolt rifles these days is very high in terms of function although some folks who should know claim that standards for fit and finish have declined.
     
  9. Uncle Mike

    Uncle Mike Member

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    Do you want accuracy or good looks.... I bet you want them both, huh.. :D

    Built for speed and altitude.... as high and fast as your budget will let you go...

    Savage 114/14... Pretty, Accurate(the most so of the bunch)

    Tikka T-3... Pretty(if you don't mind the euro trash look), Accurate

    Browning A-Bolt... Pretty, Accurate(cost more than you want to spend?)oh yea, it's a jap built firearm also... IF your into buying American.

    Weatherby Vanguard... Some say they are pretty, if you get the sub-MOA then they will be accurate.(probably more than you want to spend) and the jap thing again.

    Disclaimer: All the above remarks are purely opinion and don't hold any merit.
    Most opinions are like sphincters... everone has one... most of em' stink.:neener:

    All accuracy statements are MOD(minute of deer) nothing more! :D
     
  10. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    A proper fit means good "shootability" and you'll do better at hitting your intended target. To me, the fit is more important than the looks or, in some cases, the price.
     
  11. flipajig

    flipajig Member

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    Im shooting a TC pro hunter and love it. Right now it has a 30-06 barrel on it. This way when im looking for another rifle I just have to buy the barrel at half the cost of a new rifle.
     
  12. MTMilitiaman

    MTMilitiaman Member

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    Hmm, I've never seen a sporter M700 not shoot MOA with at least one factory load.
     
  13. Fumbler

    Fumbler Member

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    I'd like to see a sporter weight 700 do MOA. Like I said, I've never seen it. I know tons of good ole boys around here who say their 700s will do it but they never back it up at the range or show me targets to prove it.
    Of course these guys simply bought their rifles because of the 700's reputation, not because they know anything about rifles. They're deer hunters who think if they buy the first box of premium hunting ammo they see then they'll be good to go. They're not exactly the shooting fanatics that most of us on the high road are.
    None of them have actually tested multiple factory loads to see which was more accurate, so I could very well be wrong. But still, I've probably seen 20 or more sporter weight 700s at the range over the years and you'd think if they were all that then I'd see at least a couple of decent groups.

    Come to think of it, not one of my friends who I would consider to be knowledgeable in guns owns a 700...

    I'm not saying they're bad rifles. I'm not saying they don't shoot well. I'm just saying I've never personally witnessed one that could hang with a Tikka, Browning, or even a Savage in the accuracy department.

    People should buy whatever rifle they fancy for the simple fact that it evokes some good feeling in them.
    I just don't like it when they justify the purchase of a 700 with a blanket statement that they are accurate when there are many other models that are at least as accurate. It's akin to saying "I bought this Honda Accord because it's fast." Well yes, it is fast, but 80% of the other cars on the road are at least as fast as an Accord.

    That's all my opinion based on my personal experience of course ;)
     
  14. MTMilitiaman

    MTMilitiaman Member

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    My family has been shooting the M700 since the early 70s. My dad and my uncle both have M700ADLs in .30-06 they bought around that time. My first hunting rifle was an ADL Synthetic in .270 Win. I replaced it with a BDL in 7mm Rem Mag. My brother hunts with an ADL Synthetic in .300 Win. Usually at least one weight of Remington Core-Lokts will group 3 rounds from the bench right around 1 MOA. And without fail, all will easily do it with handloads. The average for all of these rifles with all loads tested, if I had to guess, couldn't be much over 1.5 MOA. My dad still has that old ADL. The rifling is showing signs of wear, but the rifle will still do around an inch with his 180 gr Speer handloads. He hasn't shot factory loads in it since he started handloading.

    Remingtons have their problems. For example, my BDL fails to eject when the bolt is worked fast. But accuracy isn't one of them.

    And while I'll admit I've never shot one, the couple T3s I' handled have come across as cheap and flimsy, and more comparable in quality to Remington's throw away M710 than the M700. That would be just a casual observation, however.

    I've always been intrigued by the Brownings. Another uncle of mine had an Abolt in 7mm Rem Mag that he traded for a BAR in .338. The BAR has a BOSS and I've seen him shrink his groups from around 2 MOA to about half that tuning it in. That was with plan ol 225 gr Win Super-Xs.

    I am looking to replace my Remington, but when I do so it will most likely be with a custom Montana M1999, rather than any factory rifle.
     
  15. Big_E

    Big_E Member

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    I picked the Rem. 700 SPS .30-06 asmy 18th b-day present. I will admit I didn't know a whole lot about guns at the time. I tried the tikka t3, and I really liked the bolt. However, I went with Remington cause its American and I knew they were popular. I also went with the tupperware because I thought the black was cool.

    I would not buy this gun again. I love shooting it, but the features are not there for the price. I did not know about cheap synthetic stocks then, and I did not realize bull barrels were an upgrade accuracy wise. I will still probably keep the gun for hunting purposes. But I am disappointed that I did not know as much as I do now, back then.

    With my knowledge, I would go pick up a Savage. Accutrigger, and accustock (I got my rifle about 2 months before these were released.) Still American made and growing aftermarket. Except I would pick wood for the hunting rifle instead of synthetic.

    **Actually, I did have my eye on the T3 Super Varmint for awhile. Tikka's were high on my consideration list and the bolts are the best I have tried. I don't know how bad carrying around a bull barrel in the field would be though.
     
  16. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

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    if for strictly hunting, I would stick with the atr. if doing some paperpunching as well, you can do a lot with a remmy.
     
  17. Omaha-BeenGlockin

    Omaha-BeenGlockin Member

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    My experiences are VERY similar to Fumbler's---Remington's ain't all that--and I've been saying that on this board for years.
     
  18. snakeman

    snakeman Member

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    every model 700 i have shot ( which is quite a few) has shot 1 moa with one factory loading or another. I would make the upgrade. Just get a new 2009 one so you can reap the rewards of remington's action and trigger upgrades
     
  19. benzy2

    benzy2 Member

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    Honestly from a hunting point of view I don't think you are gaining anything switching to the 700. If you were starting from scratch it wouldn't be a terrible choice but already having the ATR you aren't gaining much of anything. I certainly understand the bug for another rifle. I don't think I would buy a caliber close to the ATR. Instead I would go with something like a .223 or .243 and consider some smaller game or range time. It allows for more shooting options than two .30-06's does(or whatever your ATR is chambered in).
     
  20. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

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    I have seen several sporting profile 700s shoot about 1 MOA, but 1 MOA isn't what it used to be. Just about any half-way decent bolt gun will shoot MOA, with a good marksman behind the trigger, and decent cartridges in the chamber. I still maintain that the 700 is not a great buy. I would just as soon have the Mossberg (not really but i'd sell the 700). Find what fits you best and has the features that you want, if that is the 700 so be it.
     
  21. 3pairs12

    3pairs12 Member

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    That pretty much sums it up. I have had both sold the ATR in .308 recently. It shot fine great little deer rifle. The 700 appeals to me more and I can shoot it a little better. Every now and then I like to punch paper and it seemed the 700 held tighter groups for me. The other side is none of my 700s were all weather and I would have trusted the ATR in any condition nature had in store. All Terrian Rifle (ATR).
     
  22. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    Yep, +2.

    Yes, it IS an upgrade (see Mossberg bolt-launch-into-orbital-bone catastrophic failure reports, among other reasons), but not enough of an upgrade to make it worth your while. Unless you are changing to a better caliber or a nice wood stock.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2009
  23. Uncle Mike

    Uncle Mike Member

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    hmmmm, there is a LOT of talk concerning FIT.
    You mean to tell me that as long as the 'stock' fits me like a glove, the rest of the rifle can be a skunk of the first order and I should buy it? :neener:

    oh, I see... the action, barrel, accuracy ect. has too be top o' quality also.

    I quess that since most, if not all of todays bolt guns will shoot into that magical, mystical realm of MOA then focusing on stock fit may be the best thing to do.

    I think that most people would be hard pressed to be able to 'outshoot' any of todays bolt rifles. :D

    I am sick n' tired of all of this Remington bashing..... just because Remington quality has plummeted and their price has ridiculously increased is by no means a reason to pommel. hehehe

    Don't hate me because I'm beautiful!:neener:

    Many of us have multiple deer rifles, this in itself is not a bad thing, so your quest to buy another is just.

    Go to your local shooters emporium and fondel, stroke, massage.... man, it's getting warm in here... all the different models. :rolleyes:

    The right one will follow you home!:D
     
  24. txman321

    txman321 Member

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    i have heard about the bolt issue on the mossberg atr and I havent seen any recent reports about that so im really not to concerned about that as much . My main issue with the atr is im worried my bolt will fail to feed when i really need it in a hunting situation sometimes at the range my bullet doesnt feed properly and i have to redo the whole process, Perhaps im not setting it into the mag well properly?

    Other then that I really like the ATR Its accurate enough for hunting I believe. I can consistently every time hit a small metal gong at 200 yards and I got my groupings under an inch and a half to 2 inches at 100 yards just by screwing around. Is that consistent enough for deer/hog?

    here is my Current setup

    Mossberg Atr 100 .270 Winchester
    Leupold Riflemen 3x9x40 scope
    Rock mount bipod
    butler creek scope caps

    sound decent or is an upgrade needed?
     
  25. Reid73

    Reid73 Member

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    As Rick Nelson said, "You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself". Since you "really like the way the remington fits ... and the way the action is", then you might as well go ahead and buy one.

    However, since you've asked for opinions I will provide mine, which is worth what you paid for it. ;)

    Yes, I agree.

    Sounds like the Mossberg already does what you need it to do (including fitting you reasonably well), and that you simply want a higher quality rifle. Fair enough. However, the 700 SPS is itself built and sold as an "affordable" rifle, and offers no particular advantages over what you already have.

    If you want to upgrade your equipment, I'd suggest saving up until you can afford something genuinely better (e.g. Browning, Sako, Weatherby Mk V ... there are plenty of options). Alternatively, if you're willing to buy secondhand (and why not?), you can already afford something better than a new 700 SPS.

    What you have is fine. And yes, 2 MOA accuracy is quite adequate for deer and hog hunting.

    If you are keen on spending some money to improve what you have, rather than a new rifle I would replace the Butler Creek caps with Leupold Aluminas. And if you like a bipod, a genuine Harris is better than a Stoney Creek imitation. Again, these upgrades are certainly not necessary, just some things that you can think about if you're determined to make improvements to your gear.
     
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