What would the Military use instead of Ball?

[HorseSoldier]

No, it's a hollowpoint since it has a hollow point, it's just plain English. That's been defined clearly by JAG. The difference is that the OTM bullet does not depend on the open tip for wound potential.

Nope. From the actual JAG ruling:

As previously described, the MatchKing is a boat tail, ogival spitzer tip bullet with open tip. The "open tip" is a shallow aperture (approximately the diameter of the wire in a standard size straight pin or paper clip) in the nose of the bullet. While sometimes described as a "hollow point," this is a mischaracterization in law of war terms. Generally a "hollow point" bullet is thought of in terms of its ability to expand on impact with soft tissue. Physical examination of the MatchKing "open tip" bullet reveals that its opening is extremely small in comparison to the aperture in comparable hollow point hunting bullets; for example, the 165-grain GameKing is a true hollow point boat tail bullet with an aperture substantially greater than the MatchKing, and skiving (serrations cut into the jacket) to insure expansion. In the MatchKing, the open tip is closed as much as possible to provide better aerodynamics, and contains no skiving. The lead core of the MatchKing bullet is entirely covered by the bullet jacket.

Claiming a pin hole opening over a solid lead core is a hollow point at all comparable to rounds actually marketed as hollow points is silly and inaccurate.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Spitzer soft point. With only a small amount of exposed rounded lead, to aid in feeding. Vastly superior terminal performance. Or, better yet, ballistic tips.

Special dedicated penetrator rounds issue to certain squad members, for hard targets.

 

[mtngunr]

The US military already issues numerous special purpose loads for various guns....no intellectual excercise about it.....and AP works fine on people, it's the current caliber that's lacking....the .30-06 AP load was the general load during later WWII, and worked just fine.....penetrated over 30" of solid oak at 300yds......

 

[Kosh75287]

OR, I guess we could do the UNTHINKABLE and re-issue the M14s which shoot a round big enough to penetrate barriers AND stop the bad guys with the same configuration?

I know.... Silly me.....

 

[GunTech]

Well, if you want to go 'green' how about Barnes TSX? All copper and more environmentally friendly. Works well on game too.

Cool video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL-l...?q=barnes tsx video&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv

 

[GunTech]

OR, I guess we could do the UNTHINKABLE and re-issue the M14s which shoot a round big enough to penetrate barriers AND stop the bad guys with the same configuration?

There are actually bullets that offer better sectional density for penetration, and better BC for superior long range performance than the 7.62x51 - and with reduced recoil. We don't need to go back to a 60 year old cartridge. We can do much better.

 

[Bobarino]

They could go to .45-70 and use the fissionable isotope of Californium.

bwahahahahaha!! thats funny as heck. i feel like such a science dork for laughing out loud at that. i just love chemistry and physics though. since both those and mechanics are involve with firearms, therein lies my secondary interest in them.

Bobby

 

[HorseSoldier]

OR, I guess we could do the UNTHINKABLE and re-issue the M14s which shoot a round big enough to penetrate barriers AND stop the bad guys with the same configuration?

So you're saying we could cut our basic load of ammunition in half and hand out a weapon that will be slower handling onto target and when it gets there will tend to be less accurate at real world combat ranges in most hands. All to deliver a round that simply is not a silver bullet or 100% man stopper. Fewer chances to hit, less probability of a hit, and slower engagement times seems like it doesn't answer many questions relevant to a service rifle correctly.

Of course that was always the M14's problem -- it didn't do much right for a combat long gun, even if it looked good on a well-manicured KD range.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Claiming a pin hole opening over a solid lead core is a hollow point at all comparable to rounds actually marketed as hollow points is silly and inaccurate.

You sort of missed the point of what I said. I said just that, it's a hollow point but JAG defined it as NOT as strongly as possible to get around any possible legal problems.

They said it clearly, it's not a hollow point in "law of war terms". That doesn't mean it isn't a bullet with a hollow point.

I'd bet the state of New Jersey would consider it a hollow point

 

[Onesiphorus]

I've always been partial to incinderies. .50's are nice. Otherwise, to save money developing a new weapon, a 556 efmj might work. You could put anything you want in it. Just think, maybe a Nosler Ballistic Tip would work. Back in the old days, when the Air Force was available to ground troops, Napalm was quite effective and we got to watch.

 

[Cosmoline]

It would be easy enough to run bonded core penetrators with a HP front. Or something like a Barnes but with a stouter back end or even a penetrator rod built inside the bonded core or back half. A three-part bullet if you will. The front part is the hollow point, the back part the shell with penetrator. That way if it hits a very hard barrier the copper shell slips off and the penetrator part flies through, but if it hits flesh the copper core stays together and the HP end opens up. The breaking points for the parts can be controlled with current materials science. And with military application there are no prohibitions against something like a DU rod inside the round. THAT would be cooking with gas! boy howdy.

There's almost no limit to what bullet design can do, but for arcane legal reasons the military feels it must stick with an FMJ design that was outdated by WWII.

 

[Onesiphorus]

Nice! What Cosmoline said!