What would you do re: foreign revolution?

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if they were fighting to protect their rights and not attacking indiscriminatly, but actually fighting a war for their freedom and to preserve their rights, they have my total support. Hell if one of those rights they are fighting for is to keep and bear arms and with no restrictions I just might have to move :evil:
 
So general policy emerges out of the random act of one madman? Why would the exception be permitted to set the rule? What does this say about the attitudes of British citizens? Are you ALL afraid of "going Dunblane?"
The 68 GCA resulted from a combination of two Kennedy's getting kilt and Martin Luther King added to the mix. The sheep in the USA aren't a whole lot different from sheep everywhere and the political scum that pander to them are most assuredly the same everywhere.
 
Werewolf beat me to the post regarding the impetus for the '68 GCA. Prior to that, I remember being able to purchase firearms through the mail from comic book ads as long as you said you were at least 18 yrs of age.

Many policies are knee-jerk reactions to a single, dramatic event. TPTB like to look as if they're doing something about societal problems in order to distract the sheeple from examining "The man behind the curtian" too closely. History is full of examples.

Nowadays we have many more creature comforts and entertainment available as pablum to the masses.
 
The likelyhood of a major political revolution is not very good. Outside of the spread of government by Islam.

As a world society we have lost the will to resist the taming of the human individual. The sheer number of people leads to more and more restrictive laws worldwide. Our individual," space ", is shrinking.

That said, I firmly believe the next great revolution will rise out of the ashes of a worldwide( or nearly worldwide) disaster. Something along the lines of a worldwide recession, major pandemic or the supply of oil is effectively depleted.

The issue is will enough properly educated people survive the event to start over.
 
The political scene in China today is relatively stable. There are certain lines that one cannot cross, but within those confinements the people are actually quite free to better their lives and get rich. The people may not approve of the current government 100%, but they are not so desperate as to overthrow it by force either.

I'd think the real danger comes when the population is doing better economically and starts turning their attention towards improving other things in life. The government, just like any other in the world, has to move not too far behind the demands of the people in order to stay in power.


on sunday the prime minister walked through the steel works i am buying product from. he stopped and we shook hands and exchanged conversation in a mix of english and putonghua for the cameras. there were few security agents. i was amazed at the man's freedom to travel, when compared with our own national leader.

the political situation is very stable, but that is only because the lives of people are improving significantly in these recent years.
 
Well sure, you take a shot at the President you get tackled and go to jail.

You knock off a Chinese Premier, you and your family die slow lingering deaths. I'm sure the factory was vetted as tightly as a factory visit by our Pres. would be, if not more tightly.
 
The likelyhood of a major political revolution is not very good. Outside of the spread of government by Islam.

It is not just Islam and not just in foreign countries. The incursion of religion into the US government, starting in the 1950s; not counting Ben Franklin's suggestion to open Congressional sessions with a prayer and government buildings depicting religious themes; will culminate in major political and social battles of our own, currently centering mostly on abortion and denying legitimacy to homosexuals. Ignoring separation of Church and State will result in Americans killing each other over religion and someone else's notion of morality just like in so many other countries. We never learn.
 
Past is Prologue

Who the US people would support and who the US Fedgov would support
(behind the scenes if need be), might be two different things:

The Congo Debacle in the 1960s as an example:

Despite the pandemonium that was sweeping the reminder of the Congo,
Katanga had remained relatively quiet. The province and its people had
enjoyed a close economic relationship with its Belgian community. The
Katangans had reaped the benefits of the wealth that was derived from the
Belgian owned mines. By Congolese standards, the province and many of
its people were fabulously well off. The provincial capital of Elisabeth-
ville was far removed from the passions of Congolese politics, and Moise
Tshombe recognized the stability and prosperity that close ties with
Belgium offered.

The serenity in Katanga was shattered on 9 July when ANC troops
stationed at Camp Massart in Elisabethville revolted. Acting quickly and
in defiance of the Central Government, Tshombe took what proved to be a
fateful step by asking for Belgian assistance. Two Belgian companies
under Major Guy Weber quickly restored order on 10 July when they stormed
the camp barracks and then routed and killed an estimated one hundred Con-
golese troops.

By 11 July, however, it had become obvious to the Belgian government
that the situation outside Katanga had deteriorated beyond Lumumba's con-
trol and that since Lumumba could not restore order, Belgian troops would
have to. With its nationals still streaming out of the country and those
that remained still under threat of violence, the Belgians moved to stabi-
lize the situation. In violation of existing treaties with the Congo
government, Belgian troops deployed to key military bases and into Leo-
poldville and quickly restored a resemblance of order in these areas. At
the same time, at Tshombe's request, Belgian troops occupied the mining
town of Jadotville in Katanga.

Aside from Katanga and those areas which were controlled by the Bel-
gian army, anarchy prevailed within the Congo. The only vestige of autho-
rity was provided by the Belgians who had occupied the country in violation
of existing treaties. Lumumba's authority extened no farther than the
sound of his voice and his only authoritarian force, the ANC, was completely
out of control. ****Consequently, on the evening of 10 July, the United States
Ambassador to the Congo designate, Clare H. Timberlake, quietly suggested
to Lumumba and Kasavubu that they request assistance from the United Na-
tions.3****

This proved to be a fateful step. However, if Lumumba had any reser-
vations about asking for U. N. assistance, they were perished by the events
of 11 July when three, unrelated incidents touched off a new and more severe
wave of violence. The first incident occurred in the port city of Matadi
which was shelled by a Belgian warship. The shelling caused considerable
damage and some loss of life. Meanwhile, Belgian paratroops quietly rein-
forced Belgian positions throughout the Congo. The Congolese army radio
network carried exaggerated, hysterical versions of the paratroops' ac-
tion. These broadcasts precipitated increased attacks on Europeans. On
the same day, Tshombe made his move and declared Katanga to be a free and
independent state.

Lumumba and Kasavubu promptly flew to Elisabethville in an attempt
to reconcile their differences with Tshombe; but when they arrived, Bel-
gian troops, under orders from Tshombe, had occupied the airport and re-
fused to let the plane land. When the plane returned to Leopoldville,
it was met by Belgian troops who were occupying the airport. An angry
exchange of words occurred between Lumumba and some Belgian soldiers,
and Lumumba was struck in the face. The break between Belgium and the
new Congo government was now complete.
....

****The Congolese Central Government tried to force the issue by request-
ing aid again on 13 July with the stipulation, this time, that assistance
be provided primarily by African states and not by the United States.**** The
Security Council responded the following day with an 8-0 vote to commit
U.N. technical and military assistance to the Congo. This response com-
mitted the United Nations to what columnist Walter Lippman described as
****"the most advanced and sophisticated experiment in international coopera-
tion ever attempted."7**** The United Nations was committed to the Congo, and
as troops rushed in from all directions, they brought the tensions of cold
war politics with them.
....

Ostensibly, the United Nations acquiesced to Lumumba's appeal for
assistance because the appeal consisted of a specific request for aid
from the legitimate government of a sovereign state.1 In reality, the
question of whether to acede to Lumumba's request was not nearly so
simple. The committment of United Nations troops is the prerogative of
the Security Council. Consequently, any response to Lumumba's request,
which would commit troops to the Congo, was subject to veto by one of the
permanent members of the Council. However, when the resolution to autho-
rize intervention in the Congo was introduced in the Council, neither
superpower, in a rare show of unanimity if not agreement on the Condo
question, felt compelled to veto the resolution. In 1960, the United
Nations was very conscious of emerging African nationalism and of the
problems that this was causing for the colonial European powers. Neither
the United States nor the Soviet Union was willing to interfere unilat-
erally in the Congo if the price for hegemony in Central Africa was to
be labeled a colonialist.2 ****The Cold War was at its peak, and the United
States, fearing Soviet opportunism in Central Africa, saw the deployment
of a United Nations force as a means of interspersing the U.N. between
the super powers while, simultaneously, forestalling unilateral Soviet
intervention. The Soviet Union, on the other hand, supported U.N. inter-
vention because this support gave the Soviets the appearance of cham-
pioning the cause of anti-colonialism while decreasing American influence
in the region.3****

Although the super powers had reached a rare consensus, the United
Kingdom and France were lukewarm, at best, toward the proposal. Both
countries had serious reservations about United Nations interference in
what they both felt was essentially an internal problem for the Congolese
people to solve on their own. Both opposed the creation of the UNF in
principle, but neither country felt strongly enough to veto the resolu-
tion.
....

The initial force level in the Congo was approximately 20,000 troops
which were deployed throughout a primitive country the size of Western
Europe. Most of these troops came from small countries with relatively
poorly equipped military establishments. ****The logistics problems asso-
ciated with feeding, arming and transporting such a large multinational
force were enormous and, without the assistance of the United States,
would, most likely, have been insurmountable for the U.N. .****

When the UNF arrived, there was virtually no transportation avail-
able to the inner portions of the Congo. Modern highways were non-existant
and it was a torturous, eighteen hundred mile journey by river and rail
from the port city of Matadi to Elisabethville. Most of the rail trans-
portation that was available had been rendered unusable by the time U.N.
troops arrived.

Consequently, the only means to effectively move and supply troops
in the Congo's interior was by air. However, the United Nations had no
standing air force which forced it to charter some aircraft and to borrow
others from member states.19 ****The bulk of the airlift during the entire
operation, however, was provided by the United States Air Force.****
....

****Notwithstanding the UNF's occasional clashes with the Congolese
army and with various tribal groups, most of the drama during the Congo
crisis was played out in Katanga. It revolved around Moise Tshombe's
attempts to establish the province as a free and independent state.****
By mid 1961, Tshombe had built a well equipped, well armed and well
trained gendarmerie. The backbone of this force was a cadre of Belgian
officers and NCO's who had been seconded to Tshombe by the Belgian
government. For two and one half years, Tshombe's army frustrated
efforts by the Congolese Central Government and by the United Nations
to end Katanga's secession. Caught in the middle of what historian
Mugar Vuluhu called "the Katanga Circus", was the United Nations Peace-
keeping Force.

****Both the U.N. and the Peacekeeping Force played a controversial
role in Katanga. The UNF's role expanded from simple efforts, in the
beginning of the conflict, at preventing Tshombe's forces and those who
opposed him from committing wholesale murder, to active intervention, at
the end of the crisis, in support of the Central Government. Whereas
some authorities applauded the U.N. efforts in Katanga, others viewed
them as the U.N.'s "bloody war to suppress the establishment of Katanga
as a separate state".1****

The Peacekeeping Force entered Katanga in August 1960. Katanga's
secession ended in January 1963. During this time, as its role expanded,
the UNF participated in four military operations against the Katangese.
By contemporary standards, these were not major military actions. How-
ever, all military activity was directly influenced by the political cli-
mate at United Nations Headquarters in New York and by the restrictions
imposed on the Peacekeeping Force by the Security Council's mandate.
Once the UNF commenced military operations, all military activity was
closely scrutinized by both the press and by various national governments
to ensure that the UNF had not exceeded its mandate. With this is mind,
the UNF's operations in Katanga will be examined in detail.

Katanga was vital to the survival of the Congo. Tucked away in the
Southeastern corner of the country, Moise Tshombe's fabulously wealthy
little kingdom was the key to the Congo's economic viability. Profits
generated by Katanga's Belgian owned mines accounted for over half of the
Congo's revenues. The province supplied 10% of the World's copper 60%
of the cobalt, and half of the Western Bloc's material for lining jet
engines. ****Consequently, more was at stake in Katanga for the super powers
than the survival of a new African republic.****
....

Operation "Rumpunch" was the first significant U.N. military action
in Katanga. "Rumpunch" was significant because of the motives behind the
UNF's action and because the operation was the direct cause of a subse-
quent, larger clash between the UNF and Katangan troops. With its activ-
ities in "Rumpunch", the UNF abandoned its peacekeeping role and became
an active participant in the conflict.

"Rumpunch" was an effort by the UNF to capture and to expel the
foreign military personnel who formed the nucleus of Tshombe's gendarmerie.
Despite the passage of the Security Council's 21 February resolution calling
for the repatriation of all foreign military and para-military personnel
in the Congo who were not under U.N. command, by August 1961, Tshombe's
forces were still firmly led by a core of foreign officers. It was esti-
mated that this core consisted of 230 Belgian officers and NCO's and 200
soldiers of fortune of various other nationalities. Although most of the
Belgians were due to leave the Congo during September, Hammarskjold was
anxious to end Katanga's secession.4 He felt that elimination of the
foreign personnel from the Katangan army would eradicate its leadership
and that it would, thus, expedite Katanga's reintegration.

Interesting, huh? Not taught at your local school/college/university, huh? ;)

entire document at: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1984/BDR.htm
 
The political situation in China is not "very stable." There are 750 million poor-as-dirt peasants who are brutally suppressed to keep the good times going for a small, very rich capitalist class. Look for major problems ahead when the great boom slows. China is a productive country but its internal financial situation is shakey because of bad loans and sloppy accounting practices.

For that matter, the situation here isn't very stable either. Our own financial problems are well-known, and to those we can add the coming political instability of balkanization spurred by illegal immigration.
 
I would hope that I would comport myself as well as Carl Gustaf von Rosen.

Who was he, you ask?

From Wikipedia:

Count Carl Gustaf Ericsson von Rosen (1909–1977) was a Swedish pioneer aviator, son of the explorer Eric von Rosen (1879–1948) and nephew of Karin Göring, wife of Hermann Göring.

Von Rosen was interested in mechanics at an early age and became fascinated by flying machines, partly through the influence of Hermann Göring. Göring was an ace during World War I, and briefly after the war a taxi pilot for Svenska Lufttrafik in Sweden, before his political career as a NSDAP leader and later head of the Luftwaffe.

Von Rosen's own flying career started as a mechanic and then pilot in a travelling aerial circus, in which function he became skilled at aerial acrobatics, which served him well later in life.

When the Italians under Mussolini attacked the independent empire of Ethiopia, von Rosen joined a relief mission, flying food and supplies for the Red Cross. In this he survived several attacks by the Italian Air Force as well as harsh terrain conditions.

After his return from the war in Ethiopia, he went to the Netherlands to join the KLM, the first public air line in the world, and became one of their foremost pilots. He married a Dutch wife, but their happiness ended with the outbreak of the Second World War. When the Russians invaded Finland in the Winter War, von Rosen quit his job to fly bombing missions for the Finns. A year later, as the Germans attacked the Netherlands, von Rosen went to England and applied for service with the RAF but was turned down, on account of his family relation to Hermann Göring. von Rosen's Dutch wife joined the resistance and was killed during the war, while Carl Gustav continued flying for the KLM on the dangerous route London–Lisbon.

After the war, von Rosen spent years in Ethiopia as an instructor for the Imperial Ethiopian Air Force. He left to become the pilot for the second secretary general of the UN, Dag Hammarskjöld (1905–1961). By a strange twist of fate, Hammarskjöld was killed in an air crash (his plane was quite likely shot down), while mediating in the Congo Crisis, when von Rosen was grounded by illness.

Von Rosen's involvement in Africa did not end with the Congo Crisis. He gained international fame seven years later when he flew relief missions for aid organistions into war torn Biafra, a break-away republic of Nigeria. Disgusted at the suffering the Nigerian government imposed on the Biafrans and the continuous harassment of the relief flights by the Nigerian Air Force, he hatched a plan in collaboration with the French secret service to hit back. He imported five small civilian single engine MFI-9B planes produced by SAAB, which he knew to have been originally designed for a ground attack role in warfare. He had the planes painted in camouflage colours, fitted with rockets and proceeded with a band of friends to form a squadron called 'Babies of Biafra' to attack the air fields from which the federal Nigerian Air Force launched their attacks against the civilian population in Biafra. On May 22, 1969, and over the next few days, Von Rosen and his five aircraft launched attacks against Nigarian air fields at Port Harcourt, Enungu, and other small airports. The Nigerians were taken by surprise and a number of expensive jets, including a few Mig-17 fighters and three out of their six Ilyushin Il-28 bombers, were destroyed on the ground.

The last action Count von Rosen saw was again in Africa in 1977, during the Ogaden War between Ethiopia and Somalia. Again flying relief for refugees, he was killed on the ground on 13 July 1977, during a sudden Somali guerrilla attack near Gode.

---
I'm trying to find a biography of the man. He truly was larger than life.
 
"Babes of Biafra".....couldn't help bu think of groupies and an old Ice T
album from years back where Biafra did the intro:

"WE INTERRUPT THIS PROGRAM WITH A SPECIAL BULLETIN. AMERICA IS NOW UNDER MARTIAL LAW. ALL CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS HAVE BEEN SUSPENDED. STAY IN YOUR HOMES, DO NOT ATTEMPT TO CONTACT LOVED ONES, INSURANCE AGENTS OR ATTORNEYS. SHUT UP! DO NOT ATTEMPT TO THINK OR DEPRESSION MAY OCCUR. STAY IN YOUR HOMES, CURFEW IS AT 7 PM SHARP AFTER WORK. ANYONE CAUGHT OUTSIDE THE GATES OF THEIR SUBDIVISION SECTOR AFTER DARK WILL BE SHOT! REMAIN CALM, DO NOT PANIC. YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD WATCH OFFICER WILL BE BY TO COLLECT URINE SAMPLES IN THE MORNING. ANYONE CAUGHT INTERFERING WITH THE COLLECTION OF URINE SAMPLES WILL BE SHOT! STAY IN YOUR HOME, REMAIN CALM. THE NUMBER ONE ENEMY OF PROGRESS IS QUESTIONS. NATIONAL SECURITY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN INDIVIDUAL WILL. ALL SPORTS BROADCAST WILL PROCEED AS NORMAL. NO MORE THAN TWO PEOPLE MAY GATHER ANYWHERE WITHOUT PERMISSION! USE ONLY THE DRUGS PRESCRIBED BY YOUR BOSS OR SUPERVISOR. SHUT UP, BE HAPPY! OBEY ALL ORDERS WITHOUT QUESTION. THE COMFORTS YOU DEMANDED ARE NOW MANDATORY. BE HAPPY. AT LAST EVERYTHING IS DONE FOR YOU."

:cool:
 
I would support the freedom fighters. And that's what they are--you can take the quotation marks off of it, which imply that they might not be or aren't.
 
Depending on who is revolting, they may or may not be freedom fighters. That is why I used quotation marks. For instance, a small group of neo-nazis revolting in Germany on a campaign to renew the holocaust would certainly not earn the name of "freedom fighters" while a group of liberty-minded men and women who publicly release a document similar to our own DOI and BOR would likely earn my support.
 
Might be fun.

It really depends on a lot of issues in that revolution. Many revolutionaries have just turned out to be another form of a dictatorship once they have seized the reigns of power. I might do "consulting" work there. But if US troops get involved (God knows we can't afford the money or troops for another deployment) then I would withdraw. There is no way I'd fire upon my own countrymen.

Barring the above, I would help any way I could for a valid, righteous revolution. Remember, we were considered criminals during the revolution and the only reason France helped out was because A) they hated the English and B) It was King Louis' hobby.

But I would never ever support any form of terrorism, socialism or the like. I have my morals and the ends never justify the means.
 
Just remember, while you and the other freedom minded types are fighting the bad guys the commie element is angling to wax you all at the cusp of victory and steal the revolution for "The People".
 
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