Travis Two:
Since you are advocating high pressure loads, I trust you and others here ponder the following five-minute read. If you need to load a 340gr bullet with anything over 30.0gr W296 or H110 in a FA .454 Casull, you would be better served with a bigger gun, like a .500 S&W Mag. I would like to add a few final facts before I exit from this discussion. I am a mechanical engineer with a fine understanding of physics, metallurgy, and the mechanics of firearms. I have been shooting for 20 years, reloading for nearly 12, and gunsmithing for about 8.
MR. PALERMO:
I listened to ALL of what Mr. Palermo personally told me at the gun show. I also called him at the factory on two different occasions to further question what he told me when I finally received the bullets. I wanted to further authenticate what he told me so, like any smart reloader, I set out to collect data on this load combination from various sources. This was the reason for the posting at handloads.com and several other sites. I did not take what he told me out of context. On the contrary, Mr. Palermo sounds slightly insulted that I would questioning his load data.
MR. PALERMO SPEAKS:
http://forums.handloads.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10149&PN=9....."I tell customers to START with 26 grains of ww296 and work up. Recoil starts to get serious once you hit 30 grs., and above. Are these Max Loads above SAMMI pressure specs? yes,.....As to the Freedom Arms gun, the gun can take as much powder of WW296 that you can fit into the case and STILL SEAT THE BULLET TO THE CRIMP GROOVE and crimp. That load density will be somewhere around 36 grs. of WW296"
According to Mr. Palermo, am I to believe that we are to START loading above the max recommendations of the powder companies, Freedom Arms, and SAAMI max specs and then work up from there? Mr. Palermo's rationale for exceeding these recommendations is that SAAMI data was not available when this load was generated. Well we are in 2006 and SAAMI data is available. Pressure testing technology has come a long way in 20 years and to make such a load data claim without obtaining the corresponding load density and chamber pressure data is absurd. And to cling to that rationale is weak at best. This rationale is no different than saying it is safe to rev your engine to max rpm everyday for as long as you own your car and hope that every time you do it, the rev-limiter prevents the engine from blowing. God forbid that one time Murphy’s Law is enforced.
FREEDOM ARMS:
I further contacted FA and spoke to Mr. John Carey *and* Mr. Bob Baker who confirmed a max charge of 31.5gr of H110 with a 300gr bullet creates a pressure right at 65Kpsi. Both Mr. Carey and Mr. Baker further stated that 26.0gr of H110 is the max recommended charge for a 335gr Lead Hard cast bullet in order to stay under 65Kpsi. Mr. Carey said that the bullet manufacturer should be the final source for load data. When I told Mr. Carey that Mr. Palermo of Penn bullets concurred with caution when approaching a 36.0gr charge of W296, Mr. Carey was quite troubled. I am not even going to repeat what Mr. Baker had to say….let me just say the big dog at the factory emphatically stated DON’T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING BEYOND 30.0gr OF H110 OR W296.
HODGDON:
I also called Hodgdon who recommended a max charge of 25.5gr of H110 when using a 340gr Hardcast bullet. And yes, I understand this is data to support the loading in a Taurus and other FA wana-bees.
RULES OF THE BOARD:
Exceeding published data is not good advice, EVER! In this case, the load data YOU posted is WAY-WAY-WAY over factory and SAAMI specs. You should state this when recommending such data. You are required to do so in accordance with the rules of this board. But then you probably did not know it was this far over max when you posted this load, until you contacted Mr. Palermo yourself.
Dont get me wrong, I have great respect for Mr. Palermo, and I am sure he has forgotten more about bullets than I ever hope to know in my lifetime. And I am sure that the FA revolver can handle 100K psi without even a yawn. However the advice you and Mr. Palermo are promoting when loading such a high-intensity round (especially to people who may be new to reloading) is not consistent with safe and prudent loading practices. Who knows, this load data could approach the yield strength of the metal used in the revolver. And for what??………bragging rights??
I am not sure how anyone would consider 30.0+gr of H110 or W296 safe, prudent, and reasonable, especially in light of the above information. I certainly don’t want anyone reading this to ruin their day because they thought,
“oh, it is a FA, a few more grains of powder is no big deal….” Or for the person who doesn’t realize that some guns chambered for the FA .454 cant take such pressures.
Sir, I respectfully wish you well and continued safety in pursuit of reloading excellence.