What's a Real 1911?

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Well, I call my Springfield Champion a 1911-style. :eek::what::cuss::neener:


I'd really love to come across a for sale or trade "true 1911", though. One of my church members has one, an Ithaca. The gratitude I feel for those who have given their lives for this country when I hold that pistol is indescribable.
 
Oh, why not?

Bombination in a birdbath:

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Here's What Prompted My Original Post:

Upon my stating that I owned a Smith & Wesson 1911, High Roader Snake Eyes responded:

No, you don't.

I don't know what the S&W IS, but I know what it isn't: A 1911.

So, rephrasing your question correctly: What's better than what I've got?

Answer: An actual 1911.

(Sorry for the blatent snobbery but, dangitall, that abomination is NOT a 1911!)

That, in turn prompted THIS post. Frankly, I'll have to agree with Snake Eyes and others. What I own is NOT a 1911. It does have some of the desirable features of the original firearm. Oh, and I don't care what anyone calls it, I still value it highly. It's got a nice crisp trigger and fits my hand just fine.

Thanks to everyone for the interesting opinions, enlightening facts, and some great pictures.
 
Well I'm glad that's settled.. My 1911 has colt on it so therefore I can accurately label it a 1911..

Phew.
 
Actually, my guess is that the 1911 purists and Colt semi-auto aficionados aren't wound up nearly as tight as the Colt SAA connoisseurs.

I should mosey on over to the revolver forum and post that I own a STI Texican Single Action Army. Then we'll see some stuff - make that external extractor item look like a quiet debate over tea and crumpets by people unconcerned with the outcome.

Note that I do not enjoy getting SAA types wound up - it's just so easy to do I find myself doing it by accident. Yeah. "Accident", that's the ticket.

<<< casts furtive glance around the room >>>
<<< None of them here, right? Semiauto forum is safe, right? >>>

:D
 
Hawk:

You do know and understand. THERE IS ONLY ONE GENUINE SINGLE ACTION ARMY REVOLVER, AND YOU KNOW WHO MAKES IT!

Them other foreign Italian and other trashy pieces of total junk shouldn't be allowed on any decent God fearing forum. :cuss: :cuss:

But on the other hand I will have to admit that they generally work out-of-the-box, and you don't have to change the cylinders or springs to get 'um that way... :scrutiny: ;)

And sometimes they don't even need to be tweaked. :evil: :D
 
You do know and understand. THERE IS ONLY ONE GENUINE SINGLE ACTION ARMY REVOLVER, AND YOU KNOW WHO MAKES IT!

Absolutely. No argument here. I'm 100% in agreement. It is as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be.




I remain puzzled as to why many of its fans seem compelled to restate the obvious but I've come to assume it's like a secret handshake or pass phrase. "Only a Colt is a Colt", "Only a Colt has the Pony" and "If it's not a Colt, it's a copy".

When I was researching things-that-looked-like-single-actions- of-1873 I came across hundreds of posts arguing the most sublime minutiae as well as some fairly obvious distinctions in the several alternatives as compared to the REAL THING. In all of these posts, probably actually numbering in the thousands or tens-of-thousands, never once did I see anyone asserting that Colt wasn't Colt. The point, as they say, is uncontested.

So why, in the name of all that is holy, will a thread (on another forum) concerning things-of-the-1873-pattern have (by my actual count) fully 20% of the posts proclaiming: "Only Colt is Colt"?

It is, at once, blazingly obvious and uncontested. It conveys no information. Were it to be proven false it would repeal the most basic laws of our universe - a thing must be itself; a value must be equal to itself. Colt is Colt for the same reason a giraffe is a giraffe: it is incapable of being anything else.

If we were to awaken in a world where, by some agency, Colt wasn't Colt, we couldn't rely on anything - the value pi might suddenly mutate to be, say, cornbread. Imagine the chaos if the circumference of the wheels on your pick-up were suddenly their diameter multiplied by cornbread? Your spleen might become the same size as, and trade places with, your head. Such a universe would be very unpleasant and I submit we would not survive more than a few seconds therein - and they would be a most unpleasant several seconds.

So I innocently proposed that even the rankest amateur would not contest that Colt is Colt and nobody had asserted that Colt wasn't Colt at least since the invention of the internet... so... could we please dispense with pointing out the fact that Colt has succeeded admirably in being itself, or at least limit it to once a thread? Perhaps a different code phrase could be substituted, such as "WWNNSNM" (an acronym for wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more)?

Astonishingly, a dogpile ensued!

Some evidently enjoy stating the grossly obvious and will take offense with anyone suggesting that they had already won that part of the argument and could move on to other matters.

T'is a mystery, Fuff.

;)
 
Well now that you've made everything so clear, I will go hug my teddy bear and clutch my... ah.... what did you say the name of that gun was again...?? :evil: :D

As you say, some people need to get a life...
 
People that want to take you to task over !@$# like that are usually the same kind of people that find their masculinity in a gun and thus take it too damned far.

In short *&^% 'em...they're not worth your time.
 
Well, Helle's Belles! Let's get to nit-pickin'. :D

Technically, Colt hasn't built a 1911 since Fuff was a teenager. The WW1 reissue isn't a true 1911, though it's close.

Springfield doesn't build a Commander...nor does Kimber or Rock Island or anyone else for that matter. That's a Colt trademark.

Colt Commanders and Officer's Models aren't 1911s OR 1911A1s.
They're 1911A1 variants.

There is no such thing as a Series 70 Commander. Colt never produced such a beast. Ever. Series 70 pistols were all 5-inch guns.

The "Series 70 Reissue" is not...repeat N-O-T a Series 70 pistol.

There is no such thing as a Series 70 Springfield, or any of the others named. Series 70 is a Colt trademark.
Neither is any 5-inch pistol other than a Colt a Government Model. Nor are any of the USGI pistols Government Models. "Government Model" is a Colt trademark, and it only applies to commercial pistols...not USGI contract pistols...not even those made by Colt.
 
Technically, Colt hasn't built a 1911 since Fuff was a teenager. The WW1 reissue isn't a true 1911, though it's close.

Springfield doesn't build a Commander...nor does Kimber or Rock Island or anyone else for that matter. That's a Colt trademark.

Colt Commanders and Officer's Models aren't 1911s OR 1911A1s.
They're 1911A1 variants.

There is no such thing as a Series 70 Commander. Colt never produced such a beast. Ever. Series 70 pistols were all 5-inch guns.

The "Series 70 Reissue" is not...repeat N-O-T a Series 70 pistol.

There is no such thing as a Series 70 Springfield, or any of the others named. Series 70 is a Colt trademark.
Neither is any 5-inch pistol other than a Colt a Government Model. Nor are any of the USGI pistols Government Models. "Government Model" is a Colt trademark, and it only applies to commercial pistols...not USGI contract pistols...not even those made by Colt.

Very interesting, Thanks :)

None the less I consider just about anything that takes a 1911 mag a 1911. On the other hand I guess if people started calling Baby Eagles CZ75s I would get a little more annoyed and tell them that that the Baby Eagle was modeled after the CZ75B and that it was manufactured by IMI and is thus not a true CZ75. I would also mention that anything with a slide mounted safety is not a true CZ. I guess its just a matter of what your thing is. :p
 
To me, anything that follows the general pattern as established by JMB is a 1911... keep it Single-Action is really my only real requirement. That said, I like my Springers 'cause they are pretty close to the original with minor improvements.
 
The Armalite AR18/180 takes AR15/M16 magazines. Would you consider it an AR15 or an M16?

Nope, but then lots of things take M16 mags and as such I would never make this statement about M16 mags. I would consider any AR15 style rifle to be an AR15 regardless of who made it.

The .45 ACP Marlin Camp Carbine also takes 1911 magazines.

Thats why I was careful to use the words "just about". 1911s just aren't my thing, and as such I just don't have the inclination to worry about details that don't seem practical to me.

If its looks close enough - my brain registers 1911. Thats good enough for me. I did not mean my comment to be impolite, just wanted to offer my perspective. Especially since the majority of my reading lately has been about 1911s.
 
Perhaps if it misfeeds HPs it qualifies as "real 1911." I'd take my chances with abominable sw-1911. :neener:

I forgot to add, if you have to spend about $300 out of the box to customize it and make it shoot the way it ought to, then it probably is a 1911.
 
For the first two reasons, I do not consider a Springfield Champion to be a 1911. Nor do I consider a Springfield Loaded model to be a 1911, unless the ambi safety is replaced with a regular one. I don't consider the Simth and Wessons 1911s because of the extractor.


Darn. I now have to contact the police department and have them change my carry permit since it has most of my Kimbers and Springfields listed as 1911's. Darn that ambi safety..... Curse me for being left handed:neener:
 
Paging 1991Tuner and Old Fuff

Thus far in the thread, no one has addressed the Argentine Modelo 1927 Sitema Colt. What say you Mr. Tuner and Mr. Fuff?
 
This has turned into such an interesting thread, its these kinds of threads that keep me coming back to THR day after day:)

Thus far in the thread, no one has addressed the Argentine Modelo 1927 Sitema Colt. What say you Mr. Tuner and Mr. Fuff?
I vote that the Sistema is a genuine 1911, isn't it mechanically the pretty much the same or very close to the original 1911a1 design? I would say they are closer to a genuine 1911 than any of the modern 1911 variants.
 
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