“If the equipment manufacturers cannot agree on setting up dies, do you really expect us peons to be able to agree?”
cfullgraff, depends on the ego, I have helped with different concepts, methods and techniques, two days after helping, the person I helped has forgotten where he got the information, and that is in the real world.
I believe a few reloaders are capable of determining if a case has been sized before the ram is lowered, I believe a few reloaders are capable of determining the length of the chamber before firing, others insist on firing to form, I believe a few reloaders are capable of understand transfers and standards.
“manufacturers cannot agree” ? There are many reloaders out there that can not measure cam over, not knowing how is OK, not wanting to know identifies those that can not ask “HOW?” Then there are those that have thrown the term “cam over” around as though they understood the concept, then, someone comes along and says “I have 4 Rock Chuckers, not one of them will cam over, they lock up, jams up, cram up, but not one of them will cam over”, and I have said I am not a fan of abusing a press, there is no shortage of press here (as in where I am), and I have choices, moving to a ‘tuffer’ press is not an option (opinion), a presses inability to size a case is not a problem of the press, it is caused by bad habits “do you really expect us (form members) to be able to agree?” To answer that question I suggest you read through 4 pages of responses then make an attempt to determine agendas.
I have deflection gages, I have a strain gage, impossible concept for most reloadrs to understand, nothing sizes like a new, unfired case, then comes the once fired case, after that comes all the bad habits repeated over and over like fire your cases 5 times, first fire form, then neck size 4 times, then full length size???? back to minimum length and start over?????? “do you really expect us form members to be able to agree?” Again, go back and read through responses posted by members that have repeated the 6 time sizing and firing information and then explain how they will/would respond to someone that disagrees. Then drop down a couple of responses where Walkalong goes into ‘spring back’ as though that is an excuse for the failure of a presses ability to size a case when he knows working the case hardens the brass, firing is working, sizing is working, in the perfect world the press sizes new unfired brass, then it sizes once fired brass, somewhere after more work and firing the press is no longer able to restore the case to minimum length/full length sized. Again, I size cases for the chamber, I do not fire form, I form first then fire, after firing I eject fired cases, I then adjust the press, die and shell holder to size cases that fit my chamber. Jump back, snap back or pop back of the case does not lock me up, again, I have a rifle with .016 thousands head space? or explained in another way, the length of the chamber is longer by .016 thousands than a 30/06 I chamber from the face of the bolt to the shoulder of the chamber, fire form???? that is what most reloaders do, I find cases that are longer than the chamber in my M1917, not necessary to look far, the 280 Remington case is .041 thousands longer than the 30/06 from the case head to the case shoulder. Again, none of this stuff locks me up, I form cases for my M1917 by adjusting the die off the shell holder with the companion tool to the press, the feeler gage, I adjust the gap to .014 thousands, If the cases were not new or once fired, instead of being hard headed I would decrease the gap, back to the perfect case, I would not form 5 time fired cases by necking them up from 284 to .308 and I would not erase the shoulder and form it .027 thousands further back.
Again, I size cases with the die adjusted off the shell holder when necessary, again, I have no agenda, if the case needs to float and center it has already floated and centered before the case has a chance to take on the appearance of a bent/crooked case with run out.
Again, I have said not all shell holders are alike, I have said a few, very few, reloaders know the difference, and never has anyone ask “How are they different and or for what purpose”.
F. Guffey