What's going on with Walther these days?

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daytodaze

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Hey all,

When I was in high school about 10 years ago, I had a buddy who was all about Walther. His dad had a P99 and a PPK that we would take out and shoot all the time (Arizona is a gun range). I remember them working well and being pretty nice to shoot, but now I don't hear much good said about the company. Anyone have any thoughts?
 
The original Walther firm has gone through many corporate itterations Currently I believe they were purchased by UMAREX.
 
Walther is still good to go, totally underated. Smith and Wesson is the American importer now. P99 and PPS are rock solid, reliable, and accurate platforms.
 
Walther (in Ulm, Germany) still manufactures the P99, the PPS, and the new PPQ (a new P99 variant with a pre-cocked action similar to, but much better than a Glock). The P99 is still one of the best semi-autos in the world, and seems to be undergoing a bit of a renaissance, thanks to the fact that its price has been lowered to around $600, putting it closer to the price point of lesser guns like the Glock, XD, and M&P (sorry - just speakin' the truth). The P99 is still very popular with law enforcement agencies in Europe (especially in Germany).

Several of the other Walthers on the market today (the P22 and PK380, for example) are not "real" Ulm-manufactured Walthers, but are lower-quality guns manufactured by Umarex (better known as an airgun/airsoft company) that are marketed under the Walther name. New PPKs sold in the US are manufactured by Smith & Wesson under license from Walther.

Probably the main reason Walther doesn't gain as much limelight as it should is the fact that they are imported/marketed by Smith & Wesson in the US, and S&W isn't about to let pistols like the P99 and PPQ steal sales from their M&P line, which has become their bread and butter LE contract handgun.
 
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Several of the other Walthers on the market today (the P22 and PK380, for example) are not "real" Ulm-manufactured Walthers, but are lower-quality guns manufactured by Umarex (better known as an airgun/airsoft company) that are marketed under the Walther name. New PPKs sold in the US are manufactured by Smith & Wesson under license from Walther.

SIG does the same thing with a Mosquito which I believe IMO is a big mistake as it does more damage to their reputation of producing high quality pistols than the profit they make from them. Kind of like Cisco putting their name on products that used to be Linksys. Real Cisco stuff is super rock solid but not the Cisco Linksys stuff so much.
 
The best thing to happen to Walther is their pricing on the P99.
You can buy them NIB for $450. Much nicer than when they were $600.
 
Fishbed77 has it right.
Run by UMAREX, crummy product added in by UMAREX, distributed and advertised by S&W, who don't want the competition.

If it says "Ulm" on the side, it is still a real Walther.
 
Walther is still good to go, totally underated. Smith and Wesson is the American importer now. P99 and PPS are rock solid, reliable, and accurate platforms.

Yep
 
Walther continues to make exceptionally fine firearms. Walther's marketing is something less than stellar, however, especially in the USA, which is why this discussion exists. Sad but true.
 
I've owned a P99 for about five years now, and a PPQ for a few months. I would recommend either one to anyone who picked one up and felt the pistol was for them. In the short time that the PPQ has been out, nobody has reported any design related issues with it, and the P99 has built a good reputation with it's owners for the past 15 years.

Walther was the first company to come out with an ergonomic grip for a polymer pistol with the P99 (IMO of coarse), and they were the first to come out with replaceable backstraps (fact). I also can't think of another combat or police pistol with a better factory DA/SA trigger than the P99, or with a better constant-action trigger than the PPQ. I can't think of a more mechanically accurate combat or police pistol currently in production than a P99 or PPQ (though Sig's new P210 re-release might take that title now that it has come out).

Every polymer pistol Walther has designed (PPS, P99, PPQ) seems to me to have been designed with performance in mind.

The PPS was designed to be a concealable pistol with the reliability and accuracy to be suitable for use as a police pistol. If one day I wanted to get a pistol around this size, the PPS would probably be the first on my list. I remember reading of at least one police department in Germany that made a contract with Walther for a good amount of PPS pistols.

The P99, well really there is too much for me to list on this one. Walther outsourced the grip design by hiring an Italian Olympic pistol grip designer named Morini to design the pistol grip of the P99, and I would consider it the best grip on any pistol I had felt until H&K took a hint and outsourced the P30 (which came out ten years after the P99) grip design to Karl Nill (Nill Grips) and made a grip that I would consider better. The slide on the P99 angles inward as it gets closer to the top, and this was designed on purpose to help the shooter focus on the sights quicker as the pistol is brought up to eye level. The top of the slide is cut in a way to reduce glare on the sights. Walther was the first to come out with replaceable backstraps on the P99 pistol, which almost every other polymer pistol manufacturer has copied since then. The grip is bobtailed and makes it easier to carry concealed. And it goes on and on. Even if I tried to list the many features I'd heard of that Walther implemented on this pistol, I'd probably forget to add many more.

The PPQ pretty much took the best of the P99, and improved on the grip and trigger IMO. I would consider the grip on the PPQ as feeling as good as the H&K P30 grip, which I would consider one of the best feeling grips on any combat pistol. The trigger on the PPQ is pretty much just the SA trigger of the P99 with a heavier take-up, and I would consider the P99 trigger as one of the best factory triggers on any polymer pistol. The reset is as short or shorter than the 1911 triggers I have tried out, and just like the 1911, the trigger resets right at the break point. The combination of grip and trigger is probably the reason why I shoot these two pistols better than any others I have tried.

I believe there is a lot of wrong information about these pistols out there as well. I must have heard that the P99 was discontinued at least 50-100 times over the years, either in gunshops or on the internet. There are many other rumors that have been spread about these pistols over the years as well. Most people who have actually owned these pistols don't really have many bad things to say about them, if any.

As far as Glock, XD, and M&P pistols. I personally wouldn't put them at the same level as Walther, or Sig, or H&K, etc, but at the same time, I'll say that if I shot these pistols better, I personally wouldn't have a problem carrying either one. I don't think anyone who carries these pistols will have an issue should they ever need to use them as long as the pistol has proven itself to the owner before hand, which could be said of any pistol.

Walther pistols seem to be the best for me, personally, and I have no problem with that at all. They are very accurate and reliable, and more importantly they are very accurate and reliable in my hands.
 
Good info here. Walther does seem to be below the radar, and I would imagine that it is mostly due to its corporate ownership issues, marketing resources and its deal with S&W. I can't imagine how S&W, its direct competitor in the US market, can be a proper distributor for them. As for the European police market, I don't see Walthers too often in Southern Germany. Here it seems to me that most police carry HKs or leftover Sig P6's. In Austria they carry Glocks, and in France Sigpros. Still, Walther makes some good pistols and I hope that they continue.
 
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Well some German cops are carrying them or will be.


41,000 P99DAO pistols purchased in 2005 for the North Rhine-Westphalia Police.The State police of Rhineland-Palatinate procurred approx. 10,000 units of the P99Q. The P99Q has also been ordered by the police forces of Hamburg (8,000 pistols), Bremen (2,000 pistols) and Schleswig-Holstein (8,000 pistols) with deliveries between 2009 and 2017.

The P99 is also the sidearm of the finish military/defense forces as the PIST 2003
 
It might be time to invest! If P99s are as cheap as you guys say, I remember that gun always performing well for me and being quite accurate.

There are also a ton of nice, used PPKs floating around backpage.com in my area. Usually can be had between 400 and 600.
 
I don't know if Fishbed77 has it right or not, but I don't believe a P99 will do anything that my XD9 can't do.


Well, a BMW won't really do anything a Yugo can't do.

But it does do it a whole lot better! ;)
 
Unfortunately they've been taken over by the Third Recih for whom they now produce pistols exclusively. Oh, that was over 70 years ago. Never mind. It's all good now.


:evil:
 
My Mosquito is of overall good quality IMO, it's just ammo sensitive.

Glad to hear that. From remarks from others whose opinions I value it seems that the Mosquito in general is more problematic than say the P226. I have heard that most have great results with CCI Mini Mags.
 
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Walther has never seemingly been as inclined to do much in the way of advertising as other gun companies. Perhaps they feel their name and history should speak for itself. Dunno.

Their limited 1-year warranty wasn't their greatest selling point, either, although S&W was known to absorb minor repair costs in the interest of consumer relations, since it's Walter's American representative/importer, operating as Walther America (owned and operated by S&W).

It's nice to see that Walther has finally started to offer American customers a limited lifetime warranty (to the original purchaser) on their new PPQ model, though (which must be done through S&W).

Whenever I've asked the folks at either the main S&W plant or their Walther America company about whether the guns would ever receive some greater advertising exposure and appear in greater numbers, I've been told that Walther has been focusing much of its attention on its international LE/Gov sales in recent years.

S&W counts the profits from their import agreement and sales of Walther products in their bottom line, and they naturally want to see more, not less, in the way of sales. Read their annual shareholder reports and they discuss continuing sales successes with Walther products.

Then again, Walther has also been involved in a joint venture with Magnum Research, Inc on a P99 derivation. Look at the latest Magnum Research, Inc catalog for 2011 and the MR9/MR40 models on page 9 http://www.magnumresearch.com/docs/11MRIBrochure.pdf

The P99 series has been tested and even used in LE here and there in this country, but not in what you might remotely call a significant amount (I once spoke with a fed rangemaster who had been involved in some T&E of the P99 in standard (now called AS) configuration and 9mm, and knew of an occasional local cop who carried one on-duty). Guess Walther never really felt like pushing for much in the way of LE/Gov sales here. Dunno. Not privy to their corporate thinking in Germany.

The Walther PPK & PPK/S model currently being produced at the Houlton plant of S&W are licensed copies. Personally, I've never been particularly impressed by the many examples of older PP's, PPK's & PPK/S's I've seen come through the range over the years, ranging from old war production to the Interarms guns. It was always a coin toss whether one would feed and fire normally, even using hardball. Some did, and some didn't.

They were, however, sort of a 'lodge pin' among an older generation of cops. You carried a S&W or Colt snub revolver, or a Walther, as an off-duty weapon. That kind of thing.

S&W has tried to make some refinements to the design (which reportedly created some headaches for them for a while), but they also helped address the old 'slide bite' issue by incorporating an extended beaver tail. I'm told the newest of them run just fine and are selling well.

I saw a brand new one come through a range a while back. Without knowing exactly what to expect, I helped run it through some "break in". It fired normally, reliably and accurately for a couple of boxes of ammunition (I was told it was right out-of-the-box when brought to us) before I lost interest and wandered off to do other things. I guess that put it up with the better running Interarms guns I'd seen and used in times past. ;) Still wouldn't want to own or carry one, myself, though.
 
verdun59 said:
I don't know if Fishbed77 has it right or not, but I don't believe a P99 will do anything that my XD9 can't do.
Probably true, but my PPS can, that gun conceals like a mousegun and shoots like a duty size pistol.
Of course, if Walther or HS/Springfield comes out with a singlestack and inclused a grip interlock, I'm buying it. Both guns fit my hand, the PPS is nicely slim while the XD/HS2000 has the grip lever ... put those together and I'd have the perfect carry gun.
 
My PPK/s S&W had FTF and FTE issues right out of the box. It went back to S&W for 9 weeks to have the slide swapped. The new slide was a bit tight and scratched up the slide rails and barrel hood but hasn't had a failure since. I really didn't like that gun after having the issues, but quite honestly I've had it out a few times this year and I am starting to warm up to it a bit. It's nice to shoot, quite accurate, and it does look cool. Would I recommend anyone buy one? Probably not. I would love to try out the PPS though.
 
In many ways the Walther PPK/PP series of pistols is just obsolete. There are so many better choices to shoot, and carry, but the Bond thing seems to attract many to the pistol. I just don't understand that. A fictional character, from an author that knew nothing about firearms won't dictate what one should want nor carry. :rolleyes:

From all accounts, the Walther P99, PPS, and now PPQ are fine pistols worthy of serious consideration. The P-38/P-1, P-5, and P-88 are all legends, and also worthwhile owning. The PPK, not so much.
 
This might not really be "on topic" but how hard is it to come across an original design P99? With the ski hump in the trigger guard and the fine serrations.
 
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