What's the deal with BUIS? Practical or Trendy?

[hartzpad]

In the last year or two there has been a huge increase in the number of recreational shooters that make a point of listing the BUIS (Back Up Iron Sights) on their rifles (mostly AR's but there are others as well). I completely understand the usefullness of having back up sights when in a combat or possibly home defense situation (although how many people have had a red dot sight fail? and what are the chances of it happening?), but for recreational shooters, is there really a need for BUIS? I'm changing around the 1 AR that I have (DPMS AP4 .308) and I've removed the iron sights in favor of just an EOTECH. I don't feel the need to add BUIS but I may sometime in the future.

People spend $50-$120 per sight to mount BUIS on their rifle. Is it for practical reasons or just so that they can show that they have the latest trend on their rifle. Do they really feel that their optical sight might fail and tat they will have time to flip up both iron sights and engage a target in the middle of a situation?

Of course, I believe that anyone can put anything they want on their rifle, I'm just curious how others feel and if they have noticed it as a recent trend.

 

[DMK]

Well, aside from the aspect of your gun falling off the bench or tailgate and a smashed scope ruining your range day, I also like to actually use the iron sights on my ARs. With the red dot, I turn it off and I sight the irons through the optic. On my scoped ARs, I remove the scope (quick disconnect mount) and flip the rear sight up. In the latter case, I could just swap between the scope and carry handle, but then that's an extra thing I need to carry with me (and probably forget to put in my range bag) instead of just the stuff on the rifle.

I don't like to depend on my optics and actually prefer using irons most of the time. But no, I've never had a scope fail.

$90-$120 for a BUIS isn't that bad. A carry handle will cost that.

 

[browningguy]

Ther is no practical reason for them on sporting arms, but peole like to look cool too you know. So if they feel better about themselves then no bother.

Personally my AR's and SU16's have scopes, ranging from 1.5-4.5 to 3-9. I really like the 1.5-4.5 on a HD rifle, you can shoot fast with both eyes open at 1.5 and crank it up for accuracy on longer shots.

 

[jerkface11]

How is a back up sight not practical for a sporting arm? I guess you never had a hunting trip or range day ruined by a red dot with dead batteries.

 

[Zak Smith]

I consider back-up iron sights to be just that-- back-up in case the optic is inoperable or off the rifle for any reason.

Also note that 1x red dot sights can be zeroed "off the BUIS" by co-witnessing the dot on the front sight post using a proper iron sight sight picture. This allows zeroing the dot without firing any rounds. I use this method all the time when moving Aimpoints and EOTechs around on the carbines. The BUIS always stay on the gun and zeroed.

 

[MrDig]

Back up Iron Sights you mean like a scope mounted with shoot through mounts? This is nothing new and as a point of fact is quite handy on my 30-30 Marlin. As for them not being "Practical" on a sporting arm well I don't consider the 30-30 a Tactical gun by any means.

 

[Plink]

To me, anything "trendy" automatically sucks by default. That said, it's wise to have backups to anything important. Sights are very important. Break them and you won't be doing much shooting, not accurately anyway. Having backup sights just makes good sense, especially since they're not that much hassle to install.

 

[blackhawk2000]

I take it you've never seen an optic fall off the gun before? Batteries also fail.

 

[DWARREN123]

I like scopes and iron sights, so for me the answer is yes.

 

[browningguy]

Nope, never had an optic fall off a rifle, but I always carry a spare rifle on a hunt in case something should happen, and several friends use QD mounts with a spare scope sighted in and ready to mount. Never had a battery fail, because my optics don't use batteries. My .458 win does have irons on it, as does my 1891 Mauser.

However, I should have been more clear, I was referring to the current fad for buis on AR's. Along with a red dot, NV adaptor, mayber a laser and flashlight and whatever else people can find room for.

Two of my AR uppers have railed gas blocks and I use them to mount a flashlight when we are night hunting for varmits, so I'm not opposed to practical use of the technology. If you rely on batteries for your optics then you have a legitimate use for buis on an AR, or make sure you are carrying spare batteries. But I have had people ask me when I'm going to finish my .223 AR and get buis mounted.



A pretty funny question for a sod poodle gun if you ask me. If you look closely you'll see the rail adaptor for an offset flashlight, I haven't used it with this rifle yet, but have with my .50 Beowulf for pig hunting.

 

[hartzpad]

I have never seen batteries fail, but I have seen them run out because the shooter forgot to turn off their optical sight. I can't say that I have seen a scope fall off a gun, again, another case of user error.

Whether it's trendy or not, I'm convinced BUIS can be useful for serious use. But sometimes they seem to be like the trend of putting a light and laser on your AR and shooting it always shooting it outdoors at the range, which I have seen many times.

It's sort of like what happened when railed handguards became popular, everyone got them because they were cool as well as useful. Many people put them to good use to mount accesories, some overutilized them and some didn't use them to mount anything. User preference.

 

[boerseun]

You can have a rifle without irons????
There should be laws against that!

I flat out suck with scopes, I'm not a long range tactical monster shooter. Give me a good set of iron sights and I'm good as gold. I took the scope off my 10-22 because I just plain sucked with it - now I've got the iron sights on it and I love shooting it again.

BUIS (in the AR15 internet commando context) is a fad, however - some folks want to stick any darn thing they can find on to their AR's. Lights, scope, red dot, rails, holo sights, BUIS, freefloat carbon fibre tude, bipod, vertical grip etc....then they call it a M4agery or something stupid like that...

 

[Shoney]

Ther is no practical reason for them on sporting arms

You have spent between $10,000 to $30,000 for a dangerous game hunt. You are thousands of miles from home and in the bush. I can think of a dozen situations where backup sights are not only necessary but required.

You are following a wounded grizzly across a talus slope and the scree shifts under your weight, sending you tumbling.

Following closely behind a wounded African Buff thru heavy cover where his freight train escape has bent a 2 ½ branch that snaps back into place as you pass.

Trailing a wounded African lion across a steep sandstone side hill and you loose your footing.

Would you nay sayers prefer to abandon your wounded game animal, prefer backup sights, or would you try to become bigger butt nuggets.

 

[Inner Monkey]

To me they are a necessity. I do not have flip up rear sight on my AR rifle. I use a fixed A2 type & leave them on all the time. If the EOTECH fails no harm no foul. I believe Murphy’s law dictates that the optic will fail at the worst possible time. Be it batteries, fog, knocked off zero…

I also think quick detach rings & mounts are necessary.

YMMV.

 

[boerseun]

hehehe Shoney, I've never hunted Buff myself, but I've been along on a hunt and I agree....scopes in those situations, mean trouble. Get a good set of irons and as big a cartridge as you can fit into something that doesn't need wheels to drag along.

 

[DMK]

But I have had people ask me when I'm going to finish my .223 AR and get buis mounted.

hartzpad, it looks to me that you prefer scopes to irons on your ARs, since both pictured have scopes but no irons at all. I wouldn't worry too much about your scope suddenly failing unless you drop it. If you like it as it is, then it's complete for you, no matter what anyone else says.

Myself, I prefer irons, especially with the AR since it has a really good sight configuration. I have a detachable scope that I use once in a while and a red dot on my HD carbine (and my 22LR AR), but I don't like giving up the ability to use my arperture sights whenever I wish, which is most of the time. I know the rifle will shoot accurately, I want to test myself and see what I can do with it.

But hey, the modular design of the AR and the ability to easily configure it as you wish is what makes this platform so great!

 

[benEzra]

Backup sight systems have been around ever since scopes were invented; the only thing new is the acronym. Here's a top view of a Whitworth rifle with a Davidson scope mounted on the left side of the receiver (ca. 1862). Note the clearly visible BUIS.

Until fairly recently, I think most hunting rifles had backup iron sights, just in case you drop it and break the scope, got it hopelessly smeared with mud, or whatever. Remove the scope and you still have a rifle.

Marlin 336 w/scope, with BUIS

IMHO, there is nothing about an AR that makes it immune to the considerations that put iron sights on big-game rifles. You can still drop it or smear it with mud, and if you do (and don't have irons), you don't have a functional rifle. Even if all you do is target shooting, I'd hate to get to the range, check in, unpack my stuff, set up targets, and then find that my whole range day was blown because the battery in my optic was dead. And I'd like to have the option of removing the optic at the range just to maintain proficiency with irons.

I don't own an AR (yet...) but I have my eye on an RRA CAR Elite A4, and one reason I like it is that it allows you to mount an optic without necessitating fold-down sights. But if you want to low-mount an optic, it seems to me that fold-down BUIS would be a must. For me, an AR would be an all-around, do-everything rifle (target shooting, HD, and the ubiquitous "SHTF"), and for me, backup irons would be useful in all 3 scenarios.

 

[Grunt]

My M-4 at work has them and my personal M-4gery also has them and for good reason. If my M-68 or Aimpoint goes down, batteries die or even when I'm shooting at longer ranges and the dot covers up too much of the target for my taste, I simply switch to the iron sights and carry on.

 

[hartzpad]

DMK, Those are not my AR's, I think you have me confused with the other guy.

I have iron sights on every weapon I own except one right now and when I scope them I leave the iron sights on them because they are FAL's, AK's, CETME's, HK's, etc. Only 1 of them is an AR and it currently does not have iron sights. I use iron sights on my AR, but I haven't used both an optical sights as well as iron sights with the AR because 1) I don't really feel its necessary on a strictly range rifle and 2) they get in the way of the scope unless they are the fold away type.

I may add them at a later date just to fit in with the crowd

 

[MechAg94]

I agree, BUIS is only new in that we call it a BUIS. I think they are added to AR's simply because many AR's are bought as flattops these days and don't have to have them. It only makes sense though.

The Tacticool trend of some is by definition taking practical accessories beyond usefulness. As long as you keep it within reason, there is no problem. I just got one of the RRA mounts for a red dot that has the BUIS built in. Works well for me. I almost prefer using the iron sights, but the red dot has its uses.

 

[Kaylee]

Personally, I find the "trendy" accusation well.. halfway between silly and offensive.

Let me explain -- unless one is actually employed in a career field that involves trading shots with other people, the odds of actually NEEDING a semi centerfire rifle are pretty darn low for any of us. The ARs, AKs, etc.. they won't do anything a 30-30 or 870 won't do in *almost* every conceivable situation a plain ol' citizen will find him or herself in. And yes, I'm including most all police officers in there to when I say that. One guy with a beat up ol' deer rifle could have handled the Hollywood bank robbers as well or better than he could with an AR.

Why then, when someone puts a backup sighting system on their weapon is it "trendy" "poseur" or whatnot... and owning the weapon itself isn't?

Seems to me we as a community can spend far too much time trying to feel cooler than each other than actually sharing knowledge and experience.

-K

 

[browningguy]

Well as I mentioned, my .458 Win. has iron sights, it's all I've got for DG hunting:

Personally, I find the "trendy" accusation well.. halfway between silly and offensive.
The ARs, AKs, etc.. they won't do anything a 30-30 or 870 won't do in *almost* every conceivable situation a plain ol' citizen will find him or herself in.

Feel free to feel offended, or silly for that matter, ther's a lot of that going around. For SD guns I "might" agree your point has some validity. But I use my AR platforms primarily for hunting, and neither of the recommended guns is very good at all for extended range coyote/prairie dog shooting (for me).

Now I realize that 99% of the shooters on the internet are better shooters than I am, but I find optics to be a huge improvement over any iron sights. I can shoot my .458 decent at 100 yards (call it minute of buffalo), and my 7.65 Agentine with peep sights better, but any of my scoped rifles are way better. And if the light is failing then I'm completely useless with irons.

I'm old and have glasses with multiple vision correction built in, so that doesn't help. But I got my first NRA smallbore qualification in 1963 and don't actually remember a time I was a better shot at extended range with irons over optics.

 

[swingset]

I only have BUIS on my AR's to irk you guys that don't like the trend.

Seriously.

Does it bother you that I'm spending $300 for a set of sights I don't need, just to look cool? Good. Mission accomplished.

Feel better now? I do.

 

[LoadedDrum]

All of the rifles I own for which I envision potential serious use have BUIS on them for obvious reasons. However, if I were to build an AR just for fun shooting I would just put a battery free optic on it and be done. The money spent on a BUIS would be better spent on ammo.

 

[Lonestar.45]

If you hang out on ARFcom, BUIS is mandantory it seems. For all others, like me, it's strictly optional and not a real good use of my $$. I'd rather buy mags and ammo.