DMK
Member
Sorry about that Hartzpad. A day later now, I have no idea why I thought that was you.
What's the deal with BUIS? Practical or Trendy?
- Thread starter hartzpad
- Start date
- Status
I have a couple short ARs I use for informal plate shooting. Both have EOTechs and both have BUIS'. The shoots I go go are all day events and I regularly use rechargeables. Most times, the batteries will last all day with the EOTechs on and on some occassions, they run out before the day is over. Could bring an extra set of batteries but, IMO, also good to have a back-up that is not reliant on power sources.
Sniper X
Member
BUIS is nothing new
Almost every rifle I have ever had had iron sights except my PSS and a model 110CL I had. I do have a set for my M4 flattop for both tactical reasons and just plain ol usefullness if either the scope gets whacked or the red dot goes belly up.
Almost every rifle I have ever had had iron sights except my PSS and a model 110CL I had. I do have a set for my M4 flattop for both tactical reasons and just plain ol usefullness if either the scope gets whacked or the red dot goes belly up.
usp_fan
Member
It's interesting the trend away from iron sights on hunting rifles. This weekend I visited 2 large stores and asked, "who makes a stainless .260 rem with iron sights?" According to these to large stores, no one. I was questioned why I'd want such a thing. I guess I'm just a throw back. That said, I do have a BUIS on my AR and I do like to use it--but not as mcuh as my Aimpoint.
--usp_fan
--usp_fan
I think it all comes down to what you plan on using the gun for. If your gun is purely a range toy or a varmint gun, lack of irons probably does not matter a bit. If your gun is a hunting gun, they're a bit more important, especially if you want to be able to dispatch wounded animals or continue your hunt after a misadventure. They're probably pretty important on a dangerous game hunt. If your gun has a 'serious' role, their presence and your skill in their use are practically required. The real issue is an honest assessment of the role of the gun, as every one of us has some guns that we fancy as being SHTF rifles that are, in reality, range toys. Yes, I include myself in this. 
I think they seem "trendy" now because every orthodontist in suburbia now seems to have an EBR and has more money to spend kitting it out than he does time to learn how to use it.
Mike
I think they seem "trendy" now because every orthodontist in suburbia now seems to have an EBR and has more money to spend kitting it out than he does time to learn how to use it.
Mike
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
It may be partly a cost-cutting measure. Sights require machining to make, require additional machining of the barrel, and (probably most important) need to be fitted to the rifle with some care. When Wal-Mart is breathing down Remington's neck to cut costs (and corners) everywhere they can, I can see why they might make iron sights an extra-cost option.
Grunt
Member
Wonder of wonders, sometimes things happen top drive home the point. The other day we were working with the cop squadron doing a TRQC shoot. Out of the 15 shooters we had, several of them had dead batteries in their M-68 and guess what, '68 batteries isn't a benchstock item for us at the range. Sorry bud but you are either going to have to use your iron sights or go back to the squadron and explain why you didn't qualify that night to the commander. Some of their performance wasn't that great especially during the night fire portion of the course but by using their iron sights, every one of them managed to qualify.
The last TRQC class we had featured one cop whose BUIS sight was taken off (damaged and waiting on a repair) that tried to fire with just his front sight post during the iron sight portion of the course of fire. Of course the first two stages he didn't have a single hole on the target and finally took our advice to get a different rifle from the armory.
So, what are the lessons learned here? Have a BUIS in the event your optics (be it a '68 or ACOG) goes down. If you don't have a BUIS and your optics can't be used, you ain't gonna hit crap!
The last TRQC class we had featured one cop whose BUIS sight was taken off (damaged and waiting on a repair) that tried to fire with just his front sight post during the iron sight portion of the course of fire. Of course the first two stages he didn't have a single hole on the target and finally took our advice to get a different rifle from the armory.
So, what are the lessons learned here? Have a BUIS in the event your optics (be it a '68 or ACOG) goes down. If you don't have a BUIS and your optics can't be used, you ain't gonna hit crap!
What drawbacks do BUIS have against a regular iron sight system? I'm considering a rifle which would mostly be used with irons, but I would like to have them fold away when I use a scope. That way I wouldn't have to take them off the rifle every time I want to use it scoped.
So, what should I take into account when deciding between conventional irons or BUIS?
So, what should I take into account when deciding between conventional irons or BUIS?
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
I assume you are speaking of an AR-platform rifle? It will vary depending on the individual rifle/scope combo.
The main criterion I'd look at is whether the scope is usable with the fixed iron sights in place, or not. On an AR, a high-mounted optic (say, an Eotech or a scope sitting on an RRA carry handle with the built-in rail) will be usable with the fixed irons. But if you have a low-mounted scope and the iron sights obscure your vision through the scope, you'll need fold-down sights.
As far as drawbacks--the only ones I can see are (1) cost, since fold-down BUIS are more expensive, and (2) speed, because you do have to flip them up to use them in a pinch. For most people, drawback #1 is the only one of significance.
SamTuckerMTNMAN
Member
IMHO
Is it for practical reasons or just so that they can show that they have the latest trend on their rifle.
IMO, iron sights, when possible, should be a SOP (standard operating procedure). I love the Eotech, its great. But iron sights build solid shooting fundamentals which can be applied to any sighted weapon. In the mountains carrying around fancy optics of any sort invites trouble - and when you consider that perhaps the most fragile or easily damaged part of a weapon is the sighting system (or if knocked hard) then your entire weapon is rendered less usable, perhaps dangerous, until another sighting in, it only makes sense.
By ignoring the possibility of needing irons (BUIS) I would assign myself to the ranks of those weekend shooters who hail from suburbia, drive their tactical everythings out to the range, and become elite killers for a few hours. No hard feelings, if SHTF, I'd rather have those guys around than sports experts, but I would rather count myself in with the numbers of those who are a bit more hardy and ready to rumble in the jungle - regardless of fantasy potential and dillusion!
To me it is more trendy to ignore the need for BUIS, NOT having them in the first place.
Batteries, EMP, and the old adage that a mountain man should never depend too much on high technology - BUIS for me.
(a scoped weapon for long range is a different beast, under 300 yards, go irons for main or backup)
My op
ST
Is it for practical reasons or just so that they can show that they have the latest trend on their rifle.
IMO, iron sights, when possible, should be a SOP (standard operating procedure). I love the Eotech, its great. But iron sights build solid shooting fundamentals which can be applied to any sighted weapon. In the mountains carrying around fancy optics of any sort invites trouble - and when you consider that perhaps the most fragile or easily damaged part of a weapon is the sighting system (or if knocked hard) then your entire weapon is rendered less usable, perhaps dangerous, until another sighting in, it only makes sense.
By ignoring the possibility of needing irons (BUIS) I would assign myself to the ranks of those weekend shooters who hail from suburbia, drive their tactical everythings out to the range, and become elite killers for a few hours. No hard feelings, if SHTF, I'd rather have those guys around than sports experts, but I would rather count myself in with the numbers of those who are a bit more hardy and ready to rumble in the jungle - regardless of fantasy potential and dillusion!
To me it is more trendy to ignore the need for BUIS, NOT having them in the first place.
Batteries, EMP, and the old adage that a mountain man should never depend too much on high technology - BUIS for me.
(a scoped weapon for long range is a different beast, under 300 yards, go irons for main or backup)
My op
ST
SamTuckerMTNMAN
Member
So, what should I take into account when deciding between conventional irons or BUIS?
BUIS may be nominally less sturdy than built in iron sights. I was worried my yankee hill machine sight, with its minor free play in set position, would decrease accuracy, but it does not. I just make sure its all the way forward before shooting each time. 200 yard shots not difficult, also has zero and battle sights. Good stuff, worth the cash. . .
ST
BUIS may be nominally less sturdy than built in iron sights. I was worried my yankee hill machine sight, with its minor free play in set position, would decrease accuracy, but it does not. I just make sure its all the way forward before shooting each time. 200 yard shots not difficult, also has zero and battle sights. Good stuff, worth the cash. . .
ST
phoglund
Member
My AR is indeed set up as a self defense/SHTF rifle. Given that intended use it would seem foolish of me not to have backup iron sights. Do I think I'll ever need this gun for it's intended purpose, not really, but luck favors the prepared...and I tend to be the lucky sort.
phoglund
phoglund
I frankly was unprepared for the superb accuracy that I got with the BUIS on my issue patrol CAR-15. It puts all shots consistantly in the same hole at 25 yards, at the same spot, despite repeated lowerings and raisings. Mine's a YHM, and looks right throught the Eotech.
At 100 yards, off-hand on a mansized target is a snap.
I like the system. The Eotech is nice, but it's not bulletproof.
Good BUIS are closer so.
What are the chances that both go bad the same day?!?
At 100 yards, off-hand on a mansized target is a snap.
I like the system. The Eotech is nice, but it's not bulletproof.
Good BUIS are closer so.
What are the chances that both go bad the same day?!?
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Heck, even for recreational shooters BUIS can be nice. Decide you want to shoot irons? Well, they are right there on the rifle, zeroed and easy to access.
I like to tell the story of the guy who drove two hours from Dallas to do some training at Tac-Pro Shooting Center. He had a Bushmaster with an NCStar optic mounted. He couldn't get the NCStar to zero (I know... what are the odds?); and when he went to look for his detachable carry handle, it wasn't in his range bag.
So here we had a guy who had set aside an entire day just to shoot (4 hours of which would be travel time). He is now in the position of either buying a new optic or BUIS from the Pro Shop (and there is nothing in there for the NCStar budget) or driving two hours home with a broken NCStar and a day wasted. An $85 ARMS #40 sight properly installed would have solved that problem and allowed good hits out to 300yds no problem.
I like to tell the story of the guy who drove two hours from Dallas to do some training at Tac-Pro Shooting Center. He had a Bushmaster with an NCStar optic mounted. He couldn't get the NCStar to zero (I know... what are the odds?); and when he went to look for his detachable carry handle, it wasn't in his range bag.
So here we had a guy who had set aside an entire day just to shoot (4 hours of which would be travel time). He is now in the position of either buying a new optic or BUIS from the Pro Shop (and there is nothing in there for the NCStar budget) or driving two hours home with a broken NCStar and a day wasted. An $85 ARMS #40 sight properly installed would have solved that problem and allowed good hits out to 300yds no problem.
I'm considering getting a Marlin 1895 Cowboy model, installing a Marbes tang sight, and having a Burris 4x Short Mag scope in QD rings handy in case the tang breaks or I feel like shooting with a scope for awhile. I'm thinking more along the lines of BUTS (back-up telescopic sights) than BUIS.
Sorry, couldn't resist. Maybe this belongs more with the CAR-30 (Cowboy Assault Rifle) thread.
Sorry, couldn't resist. Maybe this belongs more with the CAR-30 (Cowboy Assault Rifle) thread.
romma
Member
SHTF,,, you could be dead with out them... Batteries die. That being said, I need BUIS soon because I have a red dot for my sight now. The battery died once because I forgot to turn the dot off.. Good thing I had a spare battery with me at the time.
- Status
