What's the deal with that Blue Book Values!!

Status
Not open for further replies.
M

mitch256

Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
12
Everytime I go to trade at a gun shop, the dealer will pull out that STUPID Blue Book of Gun Values. Have you looked at that the Blue Book lately? :what: I wish I could buy guns for the values listed in that book.

In most cases, dealers will only offer me 60-65 percent of what the gun is actually worth because "the book value is only (insert dollar amount)" Dang, I understand they have to make a profit but COME ON !!!:cuss: My (insert gun) is worth at least $600 and you only want to give me $375 in trade value?

Don't get me wrong, I support my local dealers and spend alot of money at their shops but show me where you can buy a well known brand (Springfield, Colt, Kimber, S&W) used high end 1911 in 90-95% condition for $375........

I was in a gun store this weekend and they had a traded in Colt NRM Series 80 in 95% condition for $899 in the used case. I said "That's kind of high for a used Colt isn't it?" The manager said "Well we had to put alot in it to trade" I happened to have my Lightweight Springfield Loaded 1911 (90% condition) with me and asked if he would take it on trade for a Springfield Operater. He offered me $375 on trade. What? You got to be kidding me!!! :cuss: Guess what he said..................."the book value is only $375"

Am I the only one this happens to?

Dealers: Is there normally a 40% markup on guns?
 
Last edited:
This past Saturday, I was at a gunshop nosing around when this guy comes in and wants a Beretta. He asks them if they'll take a trade-in. When they agree, he pulls out a flawless Ruger GP100.

Counter guy #1 asks counter guy #2 to look at the Ruger. "Two hundred," #2 mutters.

I was chomping at the bit to tell the guy that I'd give him $250 as soon as I could get to an ATM, but I didn't want to be steal the deal from the store. Anyway, the guy goes for it, and he gets a used Beretta for the GP100 and who-knows-how-much boot.

I want to go back soon and see how much they're selling the Ruger for.

That's the way small, low-volume businesses must work--buy low and sell high to cover all the overhead plus turn a profit.

I'm looking at several handguns that I'd like to buy, but they're all priced well above the Blue Book values, and I'd have to pay shipping and FFL charges on top of that.
 
Actually, when I was buying and selling a lot of guns, I found the Blue Book to be an excellent guide for prices. Of course there are some regional variations and some older or more rare guns are going to fetch higher prices, but it's a very accurate starting point.

What always surprises me is guys that think gun stores should give them 90% of retail for their used gun in 90% condition. I think those guys should go take a business class.

For example: How many guns do you suppose the average gun store sells a day? I'd be shocked if the number was '10', but let's say it is, for the sake of argument. If the owner buys your $600 retail gun for $500 and gets $100 profit from the resale, that works out to $1000/day.

Do you really think they keep the lights on, pay the rent, pay for advertising, pay the employees and pay the bank note for overhead (inventory) on $1000 a day? Never mind insurance, licensing expenses, etc., etc.

What happens on the days they only sell 3 guns?
 
Try this at Gander Mt.
They were selling a used Socom 16 (not the Socom II)for $1700 and change.
Mine in significantly better condition with an EOTech "The most we can do is $450"

I understand the profit. But there is a point where some places should offer complimentary vasiline with transactions.

The plus side is it encouraged me to keep my Socom. Glad I did.
 
The thing to remember is you don't have to take their offer. Don't let it bother you, its just business.
 
Look up a price or two in the BBGV for what the dealer already has in stock and compare the dealer's prices and you'll get an idea of the range of negotiation you're dealing with.
 
I have seen more than a few guys get the shaft AND the balls when trading in a gun or especially on a pawn loan. Granted, as a dealer you shouldn't get yourself into something you can't make a buck on especially if you have to sit on it for 30 days by law before you can sell it but WOW! In my opinion, in regards to ANYTHING, its only worth what I will give you for it right now! If you think the numbers in some book are going to make me produce another few bills from my wallet then you should put up the crack pipe!
 
I was in a gun store this weekend and they had a traded in Colt NRM Series 80 in 95% condition for $899 in the used case. I said "That's kind of high for a used Colt isn't it?" The manager said "Well we had to put alot in it to trade" I happened to have my Lightweight Springfield Loaded 1911 (90% condition) with me and asked if he would take it on trade for a Springfield Operater. He offered me $375 on trade. What? You got to be kidding me!!! Guess what he said..................."the book value is only $375"

Am I the only one this happens to?
Click to expand...
First, you're comparing a Colt to a Springfield. Yes, they function the same, but to a Colt guy that little pony on the side is worth extra money. Further according to NRA definitions for modern firearms 95%-99% is considered excellent, while 88%-94% is considered very good. Different brands, in different conditions.

Next you must look at local and national trends. Colt doesn't make many 1911s anymore, and Springfield still makes quite a few - national trend. You also have to look at local supply & demand for Springfields. Are there many people wanting to trade in Springfields, but not as many wanting to buy them? Where I am there's a fair supply of used Springefields and Kimbers, but used Kimbers sell more quickly. Consequently, if you were trading in a Kimber and a Springfield of equal blue book value my boss would probably give you a little less for the Springfield than the Kimber - not a ton less, but a little less. You also have to look at dealer cost and availability. The dealer is always going to pay you less for your used gun than what he can buy a new one for - he'd be stupid not to.

Next look at availability & demand. When the XD-45 came out demand was outstripping supply. This was one of those perfect storm cases for the used seller where many dealers were paying near their new cost for a used good in excellent condition because 1) they knew it would sell quickly, and 2) shipments of new guns were sporadic. Counter that with Glock pistols. There's still high demand for new ones, but Glock fills their backorders in a timely fashion. Add to it that the used market is pretty well saturated with them and dealers can't afford to pay out huge amounts for used Glocks.

You have to look at these factors and several others.
 
Gentleman:

Also, often times a dealer might have a NIB firearm exactly like the one you
are wanting to trade in~! :eek: Guess what? The ole' line of, "I will give you
X amount of dollars, cuz I already got one in stock". Now suppose that his
NIB model has been siting on the shelf for over 30 days; that also cuts into
what he is going to allow you for your firearm.

Another perfect example. Last Satuday (11-10-07) we had a gentleman come
in to sell a LNIB SIGARMS .40 caliber P226 complete with extra mag, lock, box,
and docs. He had originally paid in excess of $800 for this weapon NIB. My boss
says to him; "Since SIG is flood'in the market with police trade-in CPO
models, I can only give you $400 for this gun." The young mans face looked
as if it had been hit by a flying ______ (fill in the blank); but for all practical
purposes on this forum we will call it a ASH TRAY~! ;) My boss continues
the conversation that goes like this, "I will probably put this gun in the used
showcase for $599." In all honesty, any dude that comes in and waves $569
cash dollars in front of his face, most likely will become the proud owner of
this weapon. :uhoh: ;)
 
I can only defend the gun dealers to a limit - they know (or should) that they should be making their money on all the non-gun things in the store - not constantly r*ping good customers on their gun deals. If they aren't any smarter than that they don't deserve customers.
But gun dealers - like shooters - come in all types. Some of them realize the profit potential in having a majority of "used/good condition" guns in their inventory and a reputation for fair trades - and others just stand there whining all their canned excuses for scr*wing you. The former are smart business persons and good salesmen, and the latter are just slugs.

Local opinions may vary. :)
 
An antique or older gun that is in demand will bring more because the dealer can't get them. But with current guns, why do you think a dealer should give you more for a used gun than he will pay for it new from the distributor or factory? No matter how good you claim it is, it is a used gun.

Try the following the next time you buy a new car. Drive it out of the showroom and around to the dealer's used car lot and ask them what they will give you for it. Wanna bet it will be just a little less than you just paid for it?

Jim
 
As a business, I try to make money on everything thing I do. I provide a service. I do not price things for charity unless I tell you specifically I'm doing it for charity. By the time you pay all your costs, there isn't much net profit. Guns are no different. It is true that people do not check pricing as much on fiream accessories, but still, as a business you want to make something on everything you sell.

How often have you gotten what you think is a good price on a gun from a dealer and not buy any ammunition or accessories there because you know you can go to another store that has them cheaper (Walmart, etc.)?

I know going in what I can expect from a gun dealer. If they give me a price that is vastly different from what I expect (around 50-60% of market value), I don't do business. I don't have high expectations. But if Joe Blow wants to purchase a gun from me, I will probably sell it at about 85-90% of market value. Still a good price, just not a steal.
 
I like my local shop. They give 50% of blue book then mark it up from there when they sell it. I shoot the hell out of my guns, and if they're willing to to give me half back on something that in my mind I have 'used up,' it's not really a bad deal.

Plus the current retail rates tend to go up, so selling a gun a few years later tends to not hurt so bad.
 
they know (or should) that they should be making their money on all the non-gun things in the store
Click to expand...

Like the cleaning supplies and ammo what we buy at WalMart because they sell it for less than the dealer can buy it for?

Or maybe the eleventy hundred holsters they stock so that when you want a left handed cross draw paddle holster with thumbreak for a Webley MK III in cordovan brown and they only have it in black?

Or the knives, tactical flashlights, magazines, slings, springs and laser sights that we end up buying off of ebay or from an internet shop?

They shouldn't try and make a profit on the one item that (right or wrong) the federal government has said you must buy, or at least take possesion of, from them?

Joe
 
In most cases, dealers will only offer me 60-65 percent of what the gun is actually worth because "the book value is only (insert dollar amount)" Dang, I understand they have to make a profit but COME ON !!! My (insert gun) is worth at least $600 and you only want to give me $375 in trade value?
Click to expand...

This issue works both ways. I find that a lot of guys have a large misconception of what their guns are worth. Some guys come in and think their gun is worth $600, because that is what they paid 2 months ago and they haven't shot it much. They seem to conveniently forget that 8% of that $600 they paid was sales tax, which doesn't make the gun worth any more. So the gun was really about $555 at retail.

I can buy a brand new gun of the same model from the manufacturer for $480, so to me, your used gun must be worth less than that.

Unfortunately, many people trading in their guns don't seem to have any concept of this, and when I offer them $400 they think I am some how ripping them off of $200, since they just paid $600.

Your best bet is to sell your gun privately, because that guy you are selling to can't get a gun direct from the manufacturer. He has a different starting point than I do. I start at what I can get a brand new gun for and work down since your gun is used. He starts at retail and works his way down. He'll end up at a higher number.
 
"An antique or older gun that is in demand will bring more because the dealer can't get them."

The following has nothing to do with anything, well, except that cash flow and turnover can be a real problem. I was hanging out at a local shop one afternoon and a man walked in with a Sharps to sell. A nice one, although I didn't get to handle it.

The employees, some of whom have been there at least 30 years and know their stuff, called the office for the owner. He came out, looked at it and told the man that he couldn't tie that much money up right then and told him not to take a penny less than $10,000 for it.

John
 
Gun dealers buy wholesale - sell retail.
Car dealers buy wholesale - sell retail.
Boat dealers buy wholesale - sell retail.
Home Depot buys wholesale - sells retail.

They all buy and sell on preset margins that fluctuate based on the buying public. Buy low - sell as high as the market will bear...the basics of any business.

It's really not that complicated.

rd
 
Last edited:
As a dealer let me give you an example:

You buy a gun for a dealer for $1000.

The dealer paid $800. Thereby making $200.

You shoot the gun. It is now used. You bring it back to sell to the dealer. You think it is at 90% condition.

He offers you $600. You get offended. You think it is worth at least $800.

But the dealer can buy a NEW gun for $800. Why would he want yours?

He offers you $600, because maybe he can sell it for $800. He still needs to pay the bills.

Keep in mind that dealers don't pay what you pay for guns.

Now the amount offered varies from dealer to dealer, depending on what kind of margin they're trying to get out of a used gun.

When people bring guns into FBMG and want to trade them in, I always honestly tell them that I have to lowball them. That's how it works. I am a middle man. If he cuts me out and sells direct to the end user, he will make more. If people get upset, I'll usually pull out my wholesale catalog, and say "see, I could buy a brand new one for what you're expecting."

I would rather take them in on consignment, and take 10% of what they sell for. I make less, but I didn't pay for the inventory, and you make more, but you didn't get the money up front.

A lot of dealers just use the Blue Book because the values are usually set at about what they can take a used gun in for, mark it up, and resell.
 
try selling a used vehicle to a dealer.....same thing. If you have something it isn't worth anything. If they have it, it's worth a million dollars.....
 
For the life of me, I cannot figure out why anybody would trade in a gun or sell to a dealer. Sell it yourself. You'll come out way ahead.
 
mitch256... welcome to THR. Hard to believe that the dealer has the gall to try and earn a profit, eh? Why can't he just buy your old used gun for $900 and then put it on the rack for $1,200 next to the brand new ones he's selling for $1,000? Darn capitalism, eh?

Correia brings home the trohpy for sensicle input.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

A
  • Locked
Gun Values
Replies
13
Views
1K
Moonclip
M
R
  • Locked
Need some help with gun prices
Replies
2
Views
434
HGM22
H
J
  • Locked
Blue Book of Gun Values
Replies
20
Views
1K
wooderson
W
X
  • Locked
Good Deals & Blue Book
2
Replies
25
Views
1K
danprkr
D
1
  • Locked
Need help with colt value
Replies
6
Views
830
Trebor
T
Back
Top