What's the future of .40 S&W?

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mavracer said:
problem is as Fackler and others state it can't be counted on which is why you don't want to give up penatration to get there.
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Somehow, this part gets misunderstood to mean that these phenomenon do not exit, rather than that they are hard to predict.
 
The used 40's are a good deal right now. It's like a typhoon hit some foreign shore and they are washing up on the beaches like dead fish. Glocks, H&K, Sigs, you name it. I like a good deal but I know in 10 years it will be like the 41 magnum. Good cartridge but nobody will build a gun for it. Barrels will be the biggest problem. The SD cartridge will be 380, cops and military will want their 9's and the range duffers will still shoot 45 because there just isn't anything better than a 1911 and never will be.
 
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I think 9mm Parabellum is the new 32 ACP, which is to say it is the popular choice for medium sized automatic pistols - the "pocket auto" category that the Colt 1903, FN 1910, and Walther PP used to fill. To me, that makes 40 S&W the new 380 ACP in that category - less popular, but still a player. If this doesn't pan out, it will be because 40 S&W is not as close in size to 9mm Para as 380 ACP was to 32 ACP.

Small semiautos - the "vest pocket" size that used to chamber 25 ACP and 22 rimfire - have already switched to 32 ACP and 380 ACP.

Large pistols - the old military or holster size that used to chamber 9mm Parabellum and 45 ACP - ought to switch to 10mm and 9x23 Winchester under this scheme, but they show absolutely no sign of doing so, so what do I know? Still, if we're going to try and see the future, that's what's in my crystal ball.

(Under this layout, 45 ACP becomes a target/nostalgia cartridge like 45 Colt or 44 Special.)
 
There are those among us that have never/ever acquired or shot a handgun in 40S&W. I'm one of those individuals. It may or may not be, because of my age bracket but the 9mm-Luger and 45ACP are basically what I've shoot in semiautomatic pistols out side of the 22rimfire.

As far as practical experience is concerned the 45ACP during my military experience.

I am neither pro or con on the 40S&W. For those that like it use it thus why argue the point. For those that don't or have never used it life goes on.
 
To each their own, I just find that in my 60's I can't shoot a 40 as fast as a 9mm. Being someone who likes to shoot fast sometimes I prefer the 9mm, I also love 45's and have for over 40 years. The problem was that there were no carry sized 45's until Kimber almost singlehandedly brought back the resurgence of the 45 pistol in the Ultras, then everyone jumped in with 1911, guns in every size.
But if you do your research, "and I don't own a Kimber" but they made the market for small powerhouse guns that held 7 or 8 round 3" guns in colors with al the bells and whistles that attract people in the beginning of their shooting experience.
 
george burns said:
To each their own, I just find that in my 60's I can't shoot a 40 as fast as a 9mm. Being someone who likes to shoot fast sometimes I prefer the 9mm, I also love 45's and have for over 40 years. The problem was that there were no carry sized 45's until Kimber almost singlehandedly brought back the resurgence of the 45 pistol in the Ultras, then everyone jumped in with 1911, guns in every size.
But if you do your research, "and I don't own a Kimber" but they made the market for small powerhouse guns that held 7 or 8 round 3" guns in colors with al the bells and whistles that attract people in the beginning of their shooting experience.
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bersa thunder 45 UC pro is what i have now, 7 round mag, about the same length, height, and weight as a .380 like a PPK, only a tad wider
 
justin22885 said:
except you can make 38 super from cheap 223 brass, you can only make 40S&W from more expensive 10mm brass if 40S&W became less popular
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Seriously? You think .40 is going to become less popular than .30 Luger or .30 Mauser or 9mm Largo or 10mm Magnum or 32-20? Because all of those forms of brass can be bought right now, over the internet, no special order or wait times.
 
I correct my statement. More like 38 Super.
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Still bet is on 40 S&W won't drop out of the top 5 handgun cartridges in 10 years probably longer, neither the 41 or 38 super have ever been top 5.
 
sigarms228 said:
It means that during the next ammo shortage those of us the have a ,40 pistol will have plenty of ammo on the shelves still while 9MM will be next to impossible to find.
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JeffsJeep04 said:
This is exactly what pushed me to get my shield in .40 over 9mm. Last panic I could easily get .40, 9 was nowhere to be found.
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Actually during the last panic (Sandy Hook) .40 S&W ammo was the only one out of the big major centerfire pistol calibers (9mil, .40, .38/.357 and .45 ACP) that you could actually find on the shelves.

The 9mm ammo flew off the shelves in the blink of an eye, then the .45 ACP a day later, the .38 and .357 took a few more days, but the .40 S&W ammo stayed on the shelves for a week. Eventually that went too, but when they got their re-stock in the cycle repeated itself and the .40 stayed a bit longer. For the next year and a half that stayed a trend and except for here and there when Walmart, Dick's, Academy, Bass Pro and Gander Mountain were completely out for short periods sometimes .40 S&W pretty much stayed on the shelves the whole time. I don't know if that's unique to just this one area and people around here (Garland - Mesquite - Rockwall, Texas) don't shoot a whole lot of .40 Smith & Wesson or what, but apparently around here at least not a lot of people shoot it compared to the other three. Not based on panic buying combined with regular shooting consumption anyway.

Found myself wishing I had a .40 pistol to take advantage and it lasted long enough where I actually broke down and bought a KKM .40 conversion barrel to use in my Glock 20SF 10mm.

That pistol has seen far more cheap Wolf, Tula and yellow box UMC .40 S&W than it has 10mm. Was the only pistol ammo I could find for awhile. Also recently got a 40 Smith & Wesson shield as a birthday gift, so now if that same trend repeats itself again I'll have a pistol actually chambered in that caliber.

I don't think we'll see the death of the .40 S&W anymore than we've seen it in .38 or .357. .40 S&W was so popular (especially in the LE crowd) that they'll be making it for a long time to come. Lot of pistols out there to feed.

When wheel guns ruled the roost you saw a mix of .38's and .357's, so I imagine you'll see something similar there. Large police and Sheriff's depts where they employ a large cross section of people without previous firearms experience will probably go back to or stick with the 9mil and those depts with a perceived need for 'greater stopping power' or where people wear bulky clothing much of the year that might clog up the nose on some JHP's and make it act like FMJ will go with or stick with the .40 or even the .45 ACP.

Can't say it's my favorite handgun cartridge, but .40 works.
 
My understanding of the situation is that there has been such a dramatic improvement (over the last 20 years or so) on the 9mm cartridge that its ballistics are now greatly improved, so much so, that there is no compelling reasons to have the 40S&W cartridge, especially when you can carry more rounds in a high capacity magazine in 9mm.

edit: I have a .40S&W (Glock 23) that has a KKM conversion barrel for 9MM. I have also just bought some 155g 40S&W hollow points, well, because they are ON SALE, wooop, wooop!
 
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Lycidas Janwor said:
My understanding of the situation is that there has been such a dramatic improvement (over the last 20 years or so) on the 9mm cartridge that its ballistics are now greatly improved, so much so, that there is no compelling reasons to have the 40S&W cartridge, especially when you can carry more rounds in a high capacity magazine in 9mm.
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With modern defensive ammo being as good as it is I don't think there's so much a need in terms of actual performance between the 9mil and the .40 as there is a perceived need in the way people think based on the previous differences between the two based on the past.

Meaning if people think that there's a difference then there is one.

In terms of stopping power handgun cartridges are kinda crappy compared to rifle and that's all of them.
 
There is also the group that is capacity limited by their local government. 10 rounds of 9mm isn't better than 10 rounds of .40 S&W. Then you have people who simply enjoy the caliber. 45 ACP has been matched/equaled in a number of ways by other chambers yet sales are still strong due to people liking the pistols that are chambered for it. Same can happen for the .40. Lots of trade in options out there for cheap mean a lot of people will own a .40. That alone will drive sales enough for it to stay relevant from a target and defense point of view. Then there are people who will look at energy ratings and find it more potent than 9mm and higher capacity than .45ACP. Or people who will state "a 9mm might open up but a .40 will never shrink to a 9mm". Or people who believe it to be a better round through obstructions.

I own one pistol in .40 and mainly shoot it with a conversion 9mm barrel. It was convenient when ammo went scarce because .40 was the first locally to come back in stock. I don't think my revolvers are a better choice for self defense than a high capacity 9mm but that certainly doesn't stop me from buying and shooting 38 special and 357 magnum.
 
When it comes to shooting multiple calibers in a day. The .40 S&W is a good one that doesn't throw off my shooting when going between .357 magnum and .45 ACP. If I shoot .357 magnum or .45 then go to 9mm, I over grip the gun and get shots lower than where they should be. With the .40 I keep them on the bull's eye more or less.

I'll keep my Glock 22 and Glock 23. I won't likely be buying anymore .40 though unless it's a Charter Arms Pitbull.
 
just read the FBI news statement you all should read it too,
1. They are proposing the switch to 9mm for there office workers ONLY !!!
2. Special field units will NOT carry the 9mm !!!!!
3. There bullet choice it the 9mm 147gr Speer Gold Dot G2 !!!!!
4. They have submitted their findings to the Government in hopes
to receive 84 + Million dollars more tax payer money to do this !!!!

Sounds like they have slanted the statistics and facts to get what they
want MORE MONEY, remember these folks that cherry pick the stats and
facts are the same type of Government folks the say Gun Control works and
we should not own anything over 10 rounds and gun free Zones are the safest places as well as a possible mandatory gun buy back works they have a fact sheet to prove that one too !!!!!!

If it was really about a better bullet and caliber why could they not just
re-barrel the ones they have ?
This bullet that their suggesting is a polymer tipped 147 gr much like the
Hornady Critical Defense just made by Speer

Just a BIG BS SMOKE SCREEN for more TAX PAYER money and its not even
to be used by their field teams :cuss::cuss::banghead::banghead:
and has not even been implemented this is a big money thing and its not like the GOV makes good choices and there is always company's biding for GOV contracts that say my snake oil is better then their snake oil
 
sigarms228 said:
It means that during the next ammo shortage those of us the have a ,40 pistol will have plenty of ammo on the shelves still while 9MM will be next to impossible to find.

I have quite a few 9MM pistols but also a really nice P229 .40 that is a pleasure to shoot mostly for that reason. Also a good reason for the SHTF crowd to have at least one.

There are some situations where I could definitly prefer .40 over 9MM such as in the woods if wild animals could be a concern.
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+1 for the exact reasons you stated

I only have two 40s. Good as a black bear/mountain lion country round & for ammo shortages. Last time around, 9mm disappeared quickly.
 
mavracer said:
Still bet is on 40 S&W won't drop out of the top 5 handgun cartridges in 10 years probably longer, neither the 41 or 38 super have ever been top 5.
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I believe just from the numbers made the 40 S & W will be around for a lot longer than can be imagined. There is no way they are just going to disappear in a few years. I won't be here to say I told you so but mark my words.
 
I wish the truth would be told of all this 40 to 9mm BS, The reason the departments are switching is because their people first off are NOT gun people. Most cops shoot to qualify if they have to. And I mean nothing by this statement but a lot of departments are hiring women like crazy. Some shoot the 40 with out a problem the majority do not. Does the 9mm shoot easier less muzzle flip, Faster 2nd shot placement OF COURSE it does. They are not switching because the 9mm is a superior round. The police dept here dropped the physical part of test so more women could join, That's also why they went from 40 to 9mm, They found FBI and officers missed over 80% of there shots fired. That's why they need a weapon with a 17 or 22 round capacity out of 22 rounds if they miss 80% that's 4 rounds on target and a 17 that's 3 rounds on target They need to go back to the 12ga. So if you cant shoot a 40 or 45 don't blame the caliber just buy a 9mm and shut up about it. I carry a 5 shot 357 and feel very comfortable with it or my 9 shot XD SC
Please tell the truth and stop the non 9mm bashing, I also have a 9mm nothing wrong with it at all, But to defend my life I want more. Look how many up close encounters with the 9 people shot point blank in the head and lived, If I shoot you I want you DEAD!!!
 
greyghost01 said:
I wish the truth would be told of all this 40 to 9mm BS, The reason the departments are switching is because their people first off are NOT gun people. Most cops shoot to qualify if they have to. And I mean nothing by this statement but a lot of departments are hiring women like crazy. Some shoot the 40 with out a problem the majority do not. Does the 9mm shoot easier less muzzle flip, Faster 2nd shot placement OF COURSE it does. They are not switching because the 9mm is a superior round. The police dept here dropped the physical part of test so more women could join, That's also why they went from 40 to 9mm, They found FBI and officers missed over 80% of there shots fired. That's why they need a weapon with a 17 or 22 round capacity out of 22 rounds if they miss 80% that's 4 rounds on target and a 17 that's 3 rounds on target They need to go back to the 12ga. So if you cant shoot a 40 or 45 don't blame the caliber just buy a 9mm and shut up about it. I carry a 5 shot 357 and feel very comfortable with it or my 9 shot XD SC

Please tell the truth and stop the non 9mm bashing, I also have a 9mm nothing wrong with it at all, But to defend my life I want more. Look how many up close encounters with the 9 people shot point blank in the head and lived, If I shoot you I want you DEAD!!!
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And look at the people shot more than 10 times with a 45 and lived. You can't predict what a bullet will do. If you believe that a freak incident with a 9mm to the head is normal and that a 40 couldn't have that happen, then you are delusional.
 
I only have on pistol chambered in .40 S&W. It is striking to me how very differently people perceive the recoil of the .40 caliber. No doubt the size, weight, and ergonomics of the pistol make a big difference. But I also think that it is a matter of getting used to the .40.

I remember the first time I shot my Beretta mini-Cougar 8040F I found it to be at least mildly unpleasant, and I didn't shoot it very well. In fact, I shot it so poorly I thought something was wrong with it. It was the first .40 S&W pistol I had shot, but I had shot plenty of .22 LR, 38 Special, 9mm Luger, .45 ACP handguns, and even .357 and .44 Magnum revolvers.

I still don't like shooting .40 caliber quite as much as 9mm Luger, .45 ACP, or 38 Special, but now when I shoot the same pistol it really isn't any big deal at all and I find its accuracy is quite good indeed.

I know a few friends for whom .40 S&W is far and away their favorite auto-loader caliber. I don't think the caliber is going away anytime soon.
 
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