.40 S&W going the way of the dinosaurs?

[Onward Allusion]

There are some really good deals on LE trade-in Glock 22's and S&W M&P's out there. Like mid-300's for the 22's and low-300's for the M&P's.

Are more LE agencies switching back to 9mm? Is there a reason why the used market is flooded with LE trade-ins chambered in .40 S&W? Are agencies finally figuring out that modern 9mm self-defense cartridges are as effective as .40 S&W and 9mm are easier on their budgets?

 

[wally]

Glock and S&W are fighting big time over the LE market and offering very special deals to get departments to switch when it comes time for a new contract.

Makes for some nice deals for us and helps keep prices down for us civilians as well.

I'd wager its .40S&W Glock replacing .40S&W M&P and vice-versa driving things.

 

[mgmorden]

Police agencies may switch actual weapons, but as someone who works in government I can tell you a lot of it is just replacing with the same model again as they consider something to be beyond its service life after a while. IE, if you've got 10-year old Glock 22's then they sell those off as surplus and get brand new Glock 22's.

Even though I'm personally a bigger fan of 9mm (though I own and shoot both 9mm and .40S&W), I don't think .40S&W has anything to worry about in the law enforcement area.

 

[wally]

but as someone who works in government I can tell you a lot of it is just replacing with the same model again as they consider something to be beyond its service life after a while.

Government waste at its finest! Sad but true, I'm sure plain old replacement of like with like is part of it.

Police trade-ins have a reputation of being some of the best buys on the used gun market as they generally are pretty dinged up from getting into and out of patrol cars all day every day, but are usually shot very little and are a long way from the end of their service life.

 

[Fishbed77]

Government waste at its finest!

This. ^^^

I've long been able to find lots of .40S&W Glock 22 and 23 police trade-in pistols available locally. It's just the result of departments exchanging almost new pistols for brand new ones.

 

[wgp]

Our local PD is replacing all .40s with 9mm, giving each officer the choice of an M&P or a Glock. They say their qualification scores go up with the 9mm and with modern ammo it's as effective.

Personally (I'm not an LEO) what I notice is that I'm shooting 9 a lot more than .45 these days.

 

[wally]

what I notice is that I'm shooting 9 a lot more than .45 these days.

Simple matter of cost, I'm shooting and reloading a lot more 9mm too!

 

[ATLDave]

As long as USPSA has a .400" minimum caliber requirement for major in some classes, .40 will not be going "the way of the dinosaurs."

 

[Dframe]

The 40 is in NO danger of extinction. It is probably the most widely used calibre for police departments in the country. Slightly better performance than 9mm with very tolerable recoil, and available in handguns with large standard capacity magazines.

 

[AnthemBassMan]

-I seriously doubt it's going the way of the dinosaur. The .40 S&W turned 24 years old this year and really shows no signs of slowing down. And I must add that I love shooting my S&W SD40 VE. 14 plus 1 rounds of .40 S&W that hardly has more recoil than a .38 Special shot from a snubnose. Yeah, I'll take that!

L8R,
Matt

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I had a 40VE for a while and I don't remember .38 Spcl like recoil. But that part is subjective anyway.

I certainly don't think the .40 is going away any time soon. Way too many of them out there due to LEO use.

I cast as well as load, so there's not much difference in the cost of my handgun loads whether it be .45 Colt or .38 special. Heck, I'm loading 1k .45 Colt rounds for around the $70 mark these days and I don't even buy in bulk.

 

[gunsablazin]

I hope not! It's my 2nd favorite competition round, I love the versatility of shooting a minor load with very low recoil in IDPA's ESP class, and making major with the same pistol for Limited class in IPSC. It's a very versatile cartridge, especially if you reload.

 

[jmr40]

Government waste at its finest!

Actually most depts. cannot afford not to trade. Glock, S&W, Sig and all of the major gun manufacturers will approach PD's on a regular basis and make them an offer to trade in all of their old guns for new guns at a price they cannot afford to pass up. It is a win-win for both. The LE dept's get new guns for almost free, sometimes free, and the gun manufacturers refurb the old guns and sell them back to the general public at a profit.

All gun companies do this, not just Glock as some like to state. These things run in cycles, I've seen gunshow tables flooded with refurb guns made by all 3 at various times. You can often get some great deals on them.

Right after the 1994 AWB all of the gun companies offered LE and Military an even swap. One brand new mag marked "LE and Military use only" for each old magazine turned in. Not only in this country, but worldwide. Glock , Colt, S&W, Beretta, S&W, and Ruger then turned around and flooded the market all the older pre-ban magazines. There were plenty of legal hi-cap magazines for sale during the 10 year AWB. Most were at reasonable prices. Only the G20, G21, G22, and G23, magazines were expensive and hard to find since they were introduced shortly before the ban and there were not many in circulation.

 

[aka108]

Where I shoot the 40's are shot in great numbers. More 9's but the 40's are right behind them.

 

[possum]

We could only hope that .40 was going away. However, it is not. Certain departments that are accredited by certain organizations have to replace their duty gun every 5 years. It doesn't have to be a different brand or caliber or anything. they just have to be new. My department issues M&P's and that is what we are sticking with when we get our "new" guns. The "old" guns go to local dealers and such for sale at a discounted rate. Police trade in guns are a great deal if you ask me. If lots of departments issued 9mm guns, you would see a lot of 9mm guns on the shelves, it doesn't mean that 9mm is going away. .40 is surely not going anywhere anytime soon... There are too many people, cops, administrators, and civilians who believe the hype behind it.

 

[gym]

Lot's of new ammo and new guns being used. Also possibly many new shooters bought what they "read" was cool to have, but later found it hurt their hands when used for more than a few magazines. This possibly would cause them to switch to a 9mm or 380. Especially female shooters. The same thing happened with the 10mm, and let's face it, if you aren't being forced to carry a round that may hurt your hand after a while, then why do it to begin with.
Like all the guys who bought 357 magnums in a j frame package, only to find out that "it hurt", after the initial coolness wore off. Or 44 magnums, only the true shooters of big bore pistols are really in love with the pain. I sometimes like pain, in the gym, or on the range, it explains all of the injury's I did to myself over the years tearing ligaments and tendons, etc, some don't feel it because of the adrenaline but others do, and save themselves the grief.
Shooting a 9 in a mid to full size gun is a lot more comfortable "like driving a Lincoln" compared to a Cobra.
Now in my 60's I prefer the 9mm to a 357 or 40. But on occasion, still enjoy banging away with a big bore 41-44 Magnum.
It doesn't mean anything is going away, more like finding oneself through trial and error.

 

[Snowdog]

LOL, the .40S&W isn't going anywhere. It's here and here to stay.

When you see a number of cars with 6 cylinders on used car lots, it doesn't mean the 6 cylinder is being discontinued, it just means there's been a whole lot of them made. I see the .40S&W the same way. There are just so many being made that you're bound to see plenty of them on the used market, including LEO trade-ins.

 

[Nom de Forum]

We could only hope that .40 was going away. However, it is not.

Gee, I hope so too. It will be great to have several examples of a rare and valuable collector piece I can use everyday. That's your sentiment too, right?

 

[ritepath]

I traded my only 40 (p229) for a p220 last weekend. That leaves me with over 1k rounds of 40....so I have to pick up another 40.

Problem is I didn't shoot my 229 but 20 times in the 4 years I owned it. Which may be a good thing I suppose any old cheap 40 would do as a companion for my ammo. I'm looking for either a ruger p series or an M&P.

 

[WestKentucky]

I too hope that the .40 is hanging around. With the 10mm picking up steam slowly it's nice to have the cheaper, lower recoil round as a practice round.

 

[Elkins45]

The presence of used 40's is not necessarily evidence of a caliber swap, just a gun swap.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

I am a 40 fan. I hope it stays. Maybe if the weight of new guns weren't in such demand they would be toting around more 10mm with steel frames! ( just kidding ..) As much as I like steel I hate not having enough of them made here to choose from!

Back to being serious, A local Sheriff's office here reportedly traded the 9mm in for 40 last year. Don't know about tit for tat scoreboard, just throwing it in if someone really has a list going and a good calculator to crunch the numbers.

What I like about the 40 is that the 40 is great as a small barrier buster and that may be the edge I need should the unthinkable happen. Good heavy GR 40's have great penetration.

 

[Eb1]

Never cared for the 40 S&W. Like the 9mm, but prefer the .45 ACP and .44 MAG.

 

[Nom de Forum]

What everyone is forgetting is that the .40 is like the .45; a red, white, and blue, U.S.A. through and through, American as apple pie and mom caliber that will be used by red blooded Americans of strong mind and body until phasers are available. The 9mm is a decadent, wicked, teutonic wench of a caliber that has been seducing naive and weak minded Americans and foreigners for a century.

 

[JohnKSa]

My opinion is that the .40S&W is absolutely not going away anytime soon. It's going to be sold anywhere in the U.S. where it's legal to sell pistol ammunition for as long as it's legal and as long as anyone reading this thread is alive.

The only exception I can imagine would be if there were to be some amazing technology breakthrough that suddenly rendered all current firearm/ammunition technology so completely and utterly obsolete that no one would even consider owning a firearm for self-defense.