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Whats up with these primer pockets?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by mshootnit, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. mshootnit

    mshootnit Member

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    Factory 270 wsm ammo. Opened the box and notice all these shallow elongate primer pocket cuts hopefully you can see in the pic. Have you seen this before and what to make of it?
    full.jpg
     
  2. Scooter22

    Scooter22 Member

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    I see it. Poor QC I guess. Almost looks like a military case with a primer crimp.
     
  3. mshootnit

    mshootnit Member

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    Brass GTG or seek a refund on the ammo?
     
  4. ray15

    ray15 Member

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    It appears that one of the tools used to form the primer pocket or punch the flash hole bounced, striking the case a second time as it was being ejected. I've seen the same thing with Win 9mm brass. Unfortunately on the 9mm brass the flash hole is deformed.

    It's certainly safe to shoot. If it's local I'd probably try to exchange it, if not it's a little harder question.
     
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  5. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Weird defect, but should be fine if nothing else is wrong with the cases.
     
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  6. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    I would return for a refund. Mostly because of Winchesters primer history a few years back.

    A gas leak will damage the bolt face @ 65,000 PSI.

    may not know untill they are fired?.

    The flash hole could be off center? Had some new brass in 243 with that condition.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
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  7. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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    Winchester brass quality in general is poor. I don’t use their stuff
     
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  8. Charlie98

    Charlie98 Member

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    I would pull one of the bullets, pop the primer and see how the case is built, but otherwise I'd just shoot it.
     
  9. hdwhit
    • Contributing Member

    hdwhit Member

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    I think ray15 has a good, plausible explanation. I wouldn't think it is anything other than cosmetic.

    If you reload, I would take the precaution of checking to make sure that second strike didn't deform the primer pocket in effect "halfway crimping" the primer which might require the margins of the primer pocket be reamed to ensure the new primer is seated smoothly.
     
  10. mshootnit

    mshootnit Member

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    I appreciate the advice
     
  11. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    This from someone who wears a White Boa after Labor day?:)

    I thought it was Federal that was bad, or was it Remington?? Hornady?:what:
     
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  12. snakeye

    snakeye Member

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    I would call them and let them know they screwed up in QC...they need to know what is going on
     
  13. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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    And even I have my limits. In this case, Winchester brass and Winchester primers. I don’t use them
     
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  14. Blue68f100

    Blue68f100 Member

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    To me appears to be a primer crimp that the machine was not hitting on center.
     
  15. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    It's neither the pocket or flash hole punches - The priming ram was off center (assuming no crimp function for 270WSM brass, only seating). Happens more than most folks notice - those defect marks aren't so uncommon in factory ammo. This is especially evident in the bottom left cartridge in the photo, opposite of the witness mark in the case head, you see a ridge pressed into the face of the primer. This is quite visible once you're looking for it in a handful of the cartridges pictured. If you trace out the circle, it's a regular diameter from the casehead to the primer mark, so the "cut" on the casehead was made with the primer in place, meaning it cannot be the pocket or flash hole punch, and could ONLY be the primer seating ram, or a crimping ram. Since this is 270WSM brass which would not be crimped, that leaves only the priming ram as the culprit.

    Absolutely nothing more than a cosmetic error. Shoot and be merry, reload and be more wealthy.
     
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  16. The Bushmaster

    The Bushmaster Member

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    What Varminterror said. That's what I was going to post. The priming ram was off center.
     
  17. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Regarding Winchester Brass - things have changed greatly since the "good ol' days." Winchester used to be rather consistent, while incredibly affordable, and would hold up a LONG time for what it was, especially if regularly revived with annealing. They've really fallen off in recent years, not just in typical consistency, or in low standards for cosmetic QC (like the cases pictured above), but also in letting through functionally damaged brass in HIGH percentages. I do use their brass in a 30-06 hunting load, which I've been loading for over 20yrs, but my expectation isn't very high for this rifle nor load, but I learned my lesson the hard way.

    As an example, I went against better judgement and picked up 200 brass of 243win from Winchester last spring, lot LF41. Over 50% of these brass had been struck with a bent flashhole punch. My first thought was that these had been double-struck, however, upon inspection, it became obvious the flash hole punch had become bent. For a double punch, which looks almost exactly like my photo below, the flash hole will remain parallel to the case axis - two parallel punch bores. In my case, when I run a bit of rod stock through the flashholes, it will ONLY pass in at an angle, and the flashholes have a triangular cross-section, revealing the punch had bent. The most frustrating part of the whole deal was the customer service PROCESS. They required me to mail the brass back (fair), and then said upon arrival, it usually takes 3-6wks to process returns, which would ONLY be in the form of a mailed paper check. Personally, I'd have rather gotten replacement brass, and I certainly can't believe anything in the American world in 2017 would take 3-6wks, especially to process a simple paper check!! For months thereafter, I kept an eye out at shops (across the nation, since I travel so much) for the LF41 batch, and sure enough, every bag I found had the same defect present, in high occurrence - visible through the outside of the bag. At most shops, I've carried them to customer service and made them aware, such they don't get returns and/or unhappy customers, but admittedly, I assume most of the bigger stores put the cases right back on the shelf. Out of 201 pieces (one "bonus case" in one bag), only 43 of them didn't have some visible deformity - two were unrelated failures, one crushed and creased sidewall, and one deeply gouged, 1% failure is fine - but having 155 cases with buggered flashholes out of 200 cases really isn't acceptable (I forget now if the two "normal" defect" cases had bad flashholes or not).

    35631725332_56579b0702_c.jpg
     
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  18. Blue68f100

    Blue68f100 Member

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    I had some problems with WW pistol brass years back. All they asked for was a few samples and sales receipt. Once they received it they called and said they were sending me a new bag of brass. I only had 5 that was bad.
     
  19. quest4perfection

    quest4perfection Member

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    My understanding is that Lapua drills the holes, whereas others punch them...just sayin'. Never saw this before anywhere but did get some Lapua on which the case heads showed a rolled edge around approximately 20 percent of the radius. Sounds like quality control mentioned on this thread is dead on.
     
  20. ponchh

    ponchh Member

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    Is that extractor marks or somebody been banging the rims with a punch. Shooting somebody's reloads can be eye opening even if they are "factory reloads". Somebody might be trying to pull a fast one on you if bought on line on even a gun store with a range that farms out brass to be reloaded.
     
  21. bds

    bds Member

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    In the recent myth busting thread, Winchester brass was among few that measured thicker case wall where bullet base is typically seated to and experienced no bullet setback while other headstamp brass experienced bullet setback (even with thicker case walls) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...nd-bullet-setback.830072/page-3#post-10715550

    Since bullet setback and chambered seating depth variance directly affect chamber pressures and accuracy, I will be using Winchester and other headstamp brass for load testing moving forward. Here are averages of 10 sample measurements from the myth busting thread (Yes, in the spirit of "High Road", that's why we do these myth busting threads - To get to the bottom of things with measurable and repeatable data):

    Average Bullet Setback from Measurement #2 with X-Treme 100 gr plated RNFP at 1.040" OAL:

    .0000" - CBC
    .0000" - GECO
    .0000" - S+B
    .0000" - Starline
    .0000" - WIN
    .0003" - GFL
    .0003" - PMC
    .0004" - PPU
    .0004" - R-P
    .0004" - Tulammo
    .0006" - AGUILA
    .0007" - PERFECTA
    .0012" - FC
    .0013" - .FC.
    .0016" - SPEER
    .0020" - BLAZER


    Average Bullet Setback from Measurement #3 with Hunting Shack Munitions 115 gr plated RN at 1.130" OAL:

    .0000" - GECO
    .0000" - R-P
    .0000" - WIN
    .00008" - CBC
    .00008" - Tulammo
    .0001" - PERFECTA
    .0003" - GFL
    .0006" - PMC
    .0008" - BLAZER
    .0010" - .FC.


    As to OP, as others posted already, they look like primer crimps but perhaps not. I would email picture to Winchester customer service and ask.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
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