Ok, I've been loading .44 mag for awhile now, and I just invested in 30-30 Lee Dies for my turret press. I have noticed some talk of case trimming, but I just thought it was something one of the dies would do. Now I'm realizing that I need a case trimmer... right? Should I get the Lee Zip line trimmer? How do I know when its time to trim? Should I just buy new brass instead of trimming?
Whats up with Trimming Cases?
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dodgestdshift
Member
You should use your caliper and measure every case after resizing. Your manual will give you the maximum case length and the trim to length. If you are over the max you should trim. I use an older (30+ years) RCBS lathe trimmer. If you don't trim, the case will continue to grow and could cause pressure problems by gripping the bullet too tightly and raise pressures.
I wouldn't buy new cases when they grow past the maximum, since their cost would negate much of the monitary gain by reloading. I also check the length of new cases after resizing.
I have found that most handgun calibers, do not grow and don't need trimming (I haven't tried every handgun caliber, but 357 Mag, 44 Mag, 45 Colt, and 45 ACP have never needed it). My rifle calibers need trimming, not every case, but some in every batch.
I wouldn't buy new cases when they grow past the maximum, since their cost would negate much of the monitary gain by reloading. I also check the length of new cases after resizing.
I have found that most handgun calibers, do not grow and don't need trimming (I haven't tried every handgun caliber, but 357 Mag, 44 Mag, 45 Colt, and 45 ACP have never needed it). My rifle calibers need trimming, not every case, but some in every batch.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
You don't need to trim your straight walled handgun cases, as long as they are pretty close to the same length so you can get a uniform crimp. If you use a Lee FCD for crimp, trimming isn't required as case length makes no difference.
Your bottle-neck rifles cases grow each time they are fired & resized, so they will need to be trimmed. And 30-30 cases are notorious for being in need of trimming right out of the factory box. They tend to jump all over the place when new.
The Lee Zip-trim works just fine. You don't even need to buy the string pull gadget unless you are going to be trimming a large quantity. Just get the shell holder and mandrel cutter for 30-30 and use them as hand-held tools.
rcmodel
Your bottle-neck rifles cases grow each time they are fired & resized, so they will need to be trimmed. And 30-30 cases are notorious for being in need of trimming right out of the factory box. They tend to jump all over the place when new.
The Lee Zip-trim works just fine. You don't even need to buy the string pull gadget unless you are going to be trimming a large quantity. Just get the shell holder and mandrel cutter for 30-30 and use them as hand-held tools.
rcmodel
case trim
+1 for what was said in the prior post. Also, you can get some cheap case triming tools from Midwayusa.com for your 30-30. With these, you do not need a caliper, just insert case lenght gage to verify length. The item numbers are:
-476992
-432027
+1 for what was said in the prior post. Also, you can get some cheap case triming tools from Midwayusa.com for your 30-30. With these, you do not need a caliper, just insert case lenght gage to verify length. The item numbers are:
-476992
-432027
FieroCDSP
Member
Case trimming for rifle is required when you're at or above the recommended Max case-length. The reason for this is that the neck of the case will extend into the run-up area of the bore. As the bullet attempts to leave the case-mouth, the mouth will wedge against the bore, give resistance to the bullet leaving, and spike your pressure. All together equals bad things.
I personally use the Lee case-length guages and ball-handled trimmer. It's time consuming, hurts the hands, but it gets it down to a standard size. Lathe-type trimmers might provide you with better control over the length. The Lee Zip-Trim is designed to work with their case-length guage/trimmer. Chuck the case in the Zip-trim, spin it up, and push the guage/trimmer into the mouth until it decides to stop. It works just fine, but there's only the factory depth to work with. A drill-press and the standard handle for the Lee guages works better and faster.
I personally use the Lee case-length guages and ball-handled trimmer. It's time consuming, hurts the hands, but it gets it down to a standard size. Lathe-type trimmers might provide you with better control over the length. The Lee Zip-Trim is designed to work with their case-length guage/trimmer. Chuck the case in the Zip-trim, spin it up, and push the guage/trimmer into the mouth until it decides to stop. It works just fine, but there's only the factory depth to work with. A drill-press and the standard handle for the Lee guages works better and faster.
The Bushmaster
Member
Aah me...You will find that even some straight wall cases need triming. Especially magnum cases loaded to or near maximum powder charges.
If you are using Lee's FCD it IS important that the cases are with in .002" of the prescribed trim to length requirment. Especially .30 WCF (.30-30)...The crimp MUST be within the cannelure...
If you are using Lee's FCD it IS important that the cases are with in .002" of the prescribed trim to length requirment. Especially .30 WCF (.30-30)...The crimp MUST be within the cannelure...
Really? So I don't need to worry about trimming because I have the Lee Deluxe Rifle 3-Die Set?
Right... I was referring to the 30-30 stuff I just bought, sorry I didn't make that clearer.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I was talking about pistol cases in that paragraph.
Rifle cases need to be checked for length & trimmed as needed after every firing.
If they get too long, the neck can't open up enough to let go of the bullet and pressures may go south on you very suddenly.
Straight wall Pistol cases = not necessary if you use the FCD.
Rifle cases = always necessary regardless of crimp or no crimp. Excess length is dangerous.
BTW: Most good reloading manuals cover all of this. I suggest Hornady, Lyman, Speer, & RCBS manuals. You should get at least one or the other, or all of them.
Please re-read this again:
rcmodel
Really? So I don't need to worry about trimming because I have the Lee Deluxe Rifle 3-Die Set?
Right... I was referring to the 30-30 stuff I just bought, sorry I didn't make that clearer.
Smokey Joe
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Case trimming...
Dubious--You asked about the Lee Zip Trim gadget, and that question has not been answered. I have one and it works well for me. Also got the Universal Shell Holder for it. Found both @ a gun show for less than retail.
For the occasional times I use the Zip Trim, I just clamp it to my bench. Works like gangbusters.
I use 'em with the Lee Case Trimmer for the cartridge in question. The ball handle cutter is MUCH easier on your hand!
Standard Wisdom is that straight-wall pistol cases don't need trimming, but I trimmed all my target .357 Magnum cases, simply so that the crimp would be more uniform on the wadcutter bullets. Probably unnecessary, but I feel better about the ammo that way, and anything which helps confidence in competition is a Good Thing.
The Lee Case Trimmer only trims to one length, but that standardizes your cases, and the set length of the trimmer tends to be toward the Trim-to length in my manuals, so it works for me. If you want the cases trimmed shorter, take a diamond hone--carefully--to the pin of the length gauge of the trimmer until it is shortened to your desire. (But then obviously you are stuck with that shorter length!)
With neck-sizing my rifle cases, they don't usually tend to lengthen, but I occasionally check to make sure. And of course free range pick-ups need to be checked, and trimmed as needed.
Bottom line: For occasional use, my Lee Zip Trim works very well for me, and I recommend it. You want the Ball Handle Cutter. You want the Universal Case Holder. Both of these make the Zip Trim work even better.
Dubious--You asked about the Lee Zip Trim gadget, and that question has not been answered. I have one and it works well for me. Also got the Universal Shell Holder for it. Found both @ a gun show for less than retail.
For the occasional times I use the Zip Trim, I just clamp it to my bench. Works like gangbusters.
I use 'em with the Lee Case Trimmer for the cartridge in question. The ball handle cutter is MUCH easier on your hand!
Standard Wisdom is that straight-wall pistol cases don't need trimming, but I trimmed all my target .357 Magnum cases, simply so that the crimp would be more uniform on the wadcutter bullets. Probably unnecessary, but I feel better about the ammo that way, and anything which helps confidence in competition is a Good Thing.
The Lee Case Trimmer only trims to one length, but that standardizes your cases, and the set length of the trimmer tends to be toward the Trim-to length in my manuals, so it works for me. If you want the cases trimmed shorter, take a diamond hone--carefully--to the pin of the length gauge of the trimmer until it is shortened to your desire. (But then obviously you are stuck with that shorter length!)
With neck-sizing my rifle cases, they don't usually tend to lengthen, but I occasionally check to make sure. And of course free range pick-ups need to be checked, and trimmed as needed.
Bottom line: For occasional use, my Lee Zip Trim works very well for me, and I recommend it. You want the Ball Handle Cutter. You want the Universal Case Holder. Both of these make the Zip Trim work even better.
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zxcvbob
Member
I use the Lee hand case trimmer for .30 Carbine cases. They don't need trimming every time, but they need to at least be be checked every time.
I have a .45 Colt trimmer, but I don't know why I bought it. I don't trim any pistol cases.
I haven't started reloading .30-06 yet, but I'm about to. I should probably get a trimmer for it next time I place an order for gun stuff...
I have a .45 Colt trimmer, but I don't know why I bought it. I don't trim any pistol cases.
I haven't started reloading .30-06 yet, but I'm about to. I should probably get a trimmer for it next time I place an order for gun stuff...
qajaq59
Member
Since most 30-30s require that you crimp the bullets, you'll find that trimming them every so often is worth the effort. That way every case crimps on the bullet exactly alike. Generally I will anneal and trim every 5 firing or so. And yes, it certainly is a PITA, but so is missing your shot.
RustyFN
Member
I use the regular Lee trimmer and put the lockstud in a battery drill. It's seems to be fast but I have never done it any other way so I don't have anything to compare to. If you don't have a battery drill I have heard the zip trim does work good.
Rusty
Rusty
Smokey Joe
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Zip Trim vs. drill
Rusty--Before I got my Zip Trim I used the Lee trimmer system as you describe, with the lock stud in an electric drill.
It worked OK, got the cases trimmed, and I felt it was going good.
Then I got the Zip Trimmer. Believe me, there is no comparison--The ZT makes things so much simpler than turning the drill on & off. The Universal Case holder helps that a lot too, but it's the Zip Trim that is at the heart of the system.
If you have a chance to try one, do by all means. I predict you'll never go back to the drill.
BTW, I have no connection to Lee Precision other than as satisfied customer.
Rusty--Before I got my Zip Trim I used the Lee trimmer system as you describe, with the lock stud in an electric drill.
It worked OK, got the cases trimmed, and I felt it was going good.
Then I got the Zip Trimmer. Believe me, there is no comparison--The ZT makes things so much simpler than turning the drill on & off. The Universal Case holder helps that a lot too, but it's the Zip Trim that is at the heart of the system.
If you have a chance to try one, do by all means. I predict you'll never go back to the drill.
BTW, I have no connection to Lee Precision other than as satisfied customer.
Another option is to get a trim die.
I prefer it to running .308 casings through my little hand crank Lyman lathe type trimmer.
All you do with them is put the die in your press and adjust it to get the right length. Then you put a case in the die. The end of the casing sticks out past the end of the die. You run a file across the end of the casing until it is filed down to the correct length.
A few passes on a file beats the blisters that come with running cases through a hand crank rotary trimmer. I did 100 LC 7.62 nato cases in about an hour last time I had mine out.
I prefer it to running .308 casings through my little hand crank Lyman lathe type trimmer.
All you do with them is put the die in your press and adjust it to get the right length. Then you put a case in the die. The end of the casing sticks out past the end of the die. You run a file across the end of the casing until it is filed down to the correct length.
A few passes on a file beats the blisters that come with running cases through a hand crank rotary trimmer. I did 100 LC 7.62 nato cases in about an hour last time I had mine out.
dwave
Member
I have a Lee zip trim too, and I like it. Quick and easy really, just switch to a different pilot for my ball cutter and I am good to go.
RustyFN
Member
Thanks Smokey, I might have to get one and try it out. I trim quite a bit of 223.
Rusty
Rusty
uneasy_rider
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The most time consuming part of rifle reloading is case trimming, chamfering, and deburring. I hate those steps because it is mindless gruntwork. The best way to cut down on the time you spend doing this is with the Giraud Case Trimmer. It is absolutely the best trimmer I have ever used, or could even imagine. I would stop reloading rifle cartridges completely if I did not have a Giraud trimmer.
They are expensive. If you have to, sell off a gun to be able to afford one. They are that good.
They are expensive. If you have to, sell off a gun to be able to afford one. They are that good.
kennedy
Member
another vote for the lee zip trimmer and their case length gage and cutter.
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