Quote:
FBI agents were saddled with the 147 subsonic load which got some killed in the Miami shootout. AWFUL LOAD.
Not only is that not true, the bullet they did use performed as specified. Perhaps the complaint should be about specification.
You wouldn't have a great time convincingly showing that other rounds used by LEOs would have done much better. Handguns aren't death rays. The virtue is portability. After all, it is best to have a gun in a gunfight. Then you want a better gun.
cut from
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs7.htm
firearms
Suspects:
Matix: S&W M3000 12 gauge shotgun (1 round #6 shot fired).
Platt: Ruger Mini-14 .223 Remington carbine (at least 42 rounds fired),
S&W M586 .357 Magnum revolver (3 rounds fired),
Dan Wesson .357 Magnum revolver (3 rounds fired).
FBI:
McNeill: S&W M19-3 .357 Magnum revolver, 2-inch barrel (6 rounds .38 Special +P fired).
Mireles: Remington M870 12 gauge shotgun (5 rounds 2 3/4 inch 00 buckshot fired),
.357 Magnum revolver (make & model unknown), (6 rounds .38 Special +P fired).
Grogan: S&W M459 9mm automatic pistol (9 rounds fired).
Dove: S&W M459 9mm automatic pistol (20 rounds fired).
Risner: S&W M459 9mm automatic pistol (13-14 rounds fired?),
S&W (model unknown) .38 Special revolver (1 round .38 Special +P fired).
Orrantia: S&W (model unknown) .357 Magnum revolver, 4 inch barrel (12 rounds .38 Special +P fired).
Hanlon: S&W (model unknown) .38 Special revolver, 2-inch barrel (5 rounds .38 Special +P fired).
Manauzzi: Apparently lost possession of his handgun during the vehicle collision and was unable to locate and recover it during the gunfight (0 rounds fired).
wounds
Matix’s 1st gunshot wound (right forearm wound E) - Grogan
Matix’s 2nd gunshot wound (right head wound F) - McNeill
Matix’s 3rd gunshot wound (right neck/chest wound B) - McNeill
Matix received his first wound, right forearm wound E, which entered his right forearm just above the wrist. Dr. Anderson believes Grogan fired this shot, which hit Matix from a distance of approximately 25 feet. Grogan’s bullet entered Matix’s forearm on the little finger side, traveled just beneath the ulnar and radius bones, cut the ulnar artery, and exited the forearm on the thumb side.
As Matix pulled back inside after firing at Grogan and Dove, who were positioned behind the Monte Carlo, Matix’s head and upper torso were still rotated to the left when McNeill’s bullet hit him, producing head wound F. The bullet hit Matix just forward of his right ear, below the temple, shattered the cheek bone, hit and fractured the base of the cranium, and entered the right sinus cavity under the eye. This hit bruised the brain (but did not penetrate the cranium or brain) and Dr. Anderson believes it most probably knocked Matix instantly unconscious.
McNeill’s sixth shot hit Matix, causing the third wound, right neck/chest wound B. The bullet entered the right side of his neck after he slumped unconscious momentarily forward against the driver’s side door. It penetrated his neck at a downward angle and severed the blood vessels behind the collar bone, ricocheted off the first rib near the spine and came to rest in the chest cavity. It bruised but did not penetrate the right lung. This wound interrupted the blood supply to his right arm and might have also disrupted the brachial plexus to cause dysfunction of the nerves that supply the arm. Dr. Anderson speculates that Matix’s right arm was probably paralyzed by this injury, either immediately by disruption of the nerves or eventually by total loss of blood circulation to the arm. Dr. Anderson feels this wound would have ultimately been fatal, due to the severed blood vessels. Bleeding from this injury during the next 2-3 minutes caused almost a liter of blood to accumulate in the chest cavity
Platt’s 1st gunshot wound (right upper arm/chest wound B) - Dove
Platt’s 2nd gunshot wound (right thigh wound L) - Dove?
Platt’s 3rd gunshot wound (left foot wound I) - Dove?
Platt’s 4th gunshot wound (back wound K) - Orrantia?
(comment by me:
And now for the reason that 9mm was labled defective.. hardly defective with all the inital rounds hitting his arms or legs)
As Platt crawled through the passenger side window,
one of Dove’s 9mm bullets hit his right upper arm, just above the inside crook of the elbow. According to Dr. Anderson, the bullet passed under the bone, through the deltoid, triceps and teres major muscles, and severed the brachial arteries and veins. The bullet exited the inner side of his upper arm near the armpit, penetrated his chest between the fifth and sixth ribs, and passed almost completely through the right lung before stopping. The bullet came to a rest about an inch short of penetrating the wall of the heart.
After Platt crawled out the window and was rolling off the front hood of the Cutlass, Dr. Anderson believes he has hit twice more, most probably by Dove,
in the right rear thigh and left foot, (right rear thigh wound L and left foot wound I, respectively).
The bullet that produced the thigh wound entered the inside back surface of the right thigh and exited the outside surface of the leg, and involved only muscle tissue.
The bullet that hit Platt’s left foot entered behind the little toe and passed laterally through the foot from left to right, exiting above the big toe.
Dr. Anderson feels Platt’s fourth gunshot wound (back wound K) might have incurred shortly after he exited the Monte Carlo.
The wound is a left to right grazing wound to the back, and may have been inflicted by Orrantia, who was in a position across the street and in front of the Monte Carlo. Orrantia’s bullet might have hit Platt after he got back onto his feet in front of the Cutlass and was turning to his left. The bullet abraded the skin just to the right of the spine in the location of the upper shoulder blade.
Platt’s 5th wound (right forearm wound D) - Risner?/Orrantia?
Platt’s 6th wound (right upper arm/chest wound C) - Risner
Platt’s 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th wounds (right foot wounds E, F; and left foot wounds G and H) - Mireles
Platt received his fifth wound (Platt right forearm wound D) when, after shooting at Risner and Orrantia, he turned to fire at Grogan, Dove and Hanlon (who’d by now joined up with Grogan and Dove after running across the street with Mireles). The bullet, fired by either Risner or Orrantia,
hit the outside of Platt’s right forearm (midway between the wrist and the elbow) fractured the radius bone (the bone in the forearm on the thumb side), and exited the forearm.
Platt incurred his sixth wound (Platt right upper arm/chest wound C), which was inflicted by Risner.
The bullet entered the back of Platt’s right upper arm (mid arm), passed through the triceps muscle and exited below the armpit. It then entered the muscles in the side of his chest and came to a rest in the soft tissues of the right side back, below the shoulder blade. The bullet did not penetrate the rib cage and the resultant wound was not serious.
Mireles fired the first of five rounds of 00 buckshot from the Remington 870 shotgun he was carrying when he was hit in the forearm at the beginning of the gunfight by one of Platt’s bullets. Dr. Anderson feels this first shot by Mireles caused
Platt right foot wounds E and F, and left foot wounds G and H. These wounds did not knock Platt off his feet.
Platt’s 11th wound, scalp wound A - Mireles
Matix’s 4th wound, face wound D - Mireles
Matix’s 5th wound, face/spine wound C - Mireles
Matix’s 6th wound, face/neck wound A - Mireles
Platt’s 12th wound, chest/spine wound J - Mireles
Mireles then drew his .357 Magnum revolver, got to his feet, moved laterally about 15 feet parallel with the street, clear of McNeill’s car, and then began walking directly towards Platt and Matix, who were sitting in Grogan/Dove’s car. Mireles fired six rounds of .38 Special +P from his revolver. Mireles revolver shots 1 and 2 were fired at Platt, shots 3, 4 and 5 at Matix, and shot 6 at Platt. Five of the six bullets hit Platt or Matix.
Mireles first shot at Platt hit the back of the front seat behind Platt’s left shoulder. Dr. Anderson theorizes that the sound of the gunshot would have caused Platt to turn his head to the left to look for the source of the gunfire. Mireles second shot then hit Platt above the outer edge of the right eyebrow (Platt scalp wound A). The weight of the projectile that was recovered from Platt’s scalp was about 19 grains, suggesting that the bullet hit the driver’s side window post and fragmented. After the fragment penetrated the skin it ricocheted off the curvature of the right side of Platt’s forehead, and traveled between the skin and the exterior surface of the skull for a distance of about 2 inches before it stopped above the right temple. The fragment did not penetrate the cranium.
Dr. Anderson postulates that Platt then laid back on the front bench seat of Grogan/Dove’s car, placing his head and shoulders (face side up) in Matix’s lap on the passenger side, in attempt to use the driver’s side door as cover against Mireles’ gunfire. Platt’s movement and positioning trapped Matix upright on the seat with his back against the passenger side door. Mireles third shot hit Matix’s face just below the left cheekbone and adjacent to the left nostril (Matix face wound D). The projectile fragmented in two; the largest embedded in the bone beside the nose, a smaller fragment penetrating the left sinus cavity. According to Dr. Anderson, this wound was not significant, and probably was inflicted as Matix was looking at the approaching Mireles. The size and weight of the two fragments suggests the bullet probably hit the driver’s side window frame before it hit Matix.
Matix then apparently tried to make himself as small a target as possible. He tucked his chin into his chest and pressed his back against the passenger side door to slide his buttocks on the bench seat in attempt to get as low as he could. Dr. Anderson claims this would have accounted for the wound path caused by Mireles’ fourth bullet (Matix face/spine wound C). The bullet hit Matix’s face just outside the lower right edge of the right eye socket, at about seven o-clock. The bullet traveled downward through the facial bones, through the right side of the lower jaw, into the neck, and entered the spinal column between cervical vertebra number 7 (C7) and thoracic vertebra number 1 (T1) where it severed the spinal cord at the base of T1.
Matix’s body would have immediately relaxed, according to Dr. Anderson, causing his head to tilt backwards. His face would have risen upwards by the time Mireles’ fifth bullet hit him in the face (Matix face wound A). The bullet hit Matix’s chin just below the right corner of the mouth, penetrated the jaw bone and into the neck where it came to rest beside the right side of the spinal column at C7. The bullet did not damage the spinal cord.
By this time Mireles had reached the driver’s side door of Grogan/Dove’s car when he fired his sixth and final shot. Mireles extended his gun through the driver’s side window and fired at Platt (Platt chest/spine wound J). The bullet penetrated Platt’s chest just below the left collar bone, traveled through the musculature of the shoulder and neck and stopped in the fifth cervical vertebra (C5), where it bruised the spinal cord. Dr. Anderson observes that the wound path of this bullet through Platt’s body could only have occurred if Platt were lying on his back on the front seat.
Mireles’ sixth and final shot ended the gunfight. Platt and Matix both lay on the front seat of Grogan/Dove’s car. If Matix was not already dead, he would be shortly. Arriving paramedics came to the aid of the FBI agents first and then shifted their attention to Platt and Matix. According to Dr. Anderson, paramedics found no signs of life in Grogan, Dove or Matix and no first aid was attempted. Whereas, Platt appears to have still had a heartbeat because paramedics inserted an airway tube and began administering intravenous fluids. Platt died at the scene without regaining consciousness.
