What's wrong with a Taurus

[Ghost Tracker]

I would have names, pictures, corresponding documentation, and a gunsmiths opinion on the issue. Russ

You would huh? He took an easier tact & already has told you why. He RAN OUT OF PATIENCE and sold/swapped it to a guy (dealer) who HAD MORE PATIENCE. For the record, I've BEEN up the "feeding chain" (all the way to V.P., so I was told) of the Taurus company and it was a severely arduous trek of worthless assurances, elitist dismissals, scandalous falsehoods & relentless foot-dragging. I was repeatedly given every possible opportunity to become soooo frustrated that I disappeared from their radar having blow-up (and out) from the sheer madness of the process, it almost worked as I nearly lost patience. It may be, perhaps, an unspoken technique & subtile part of their warranty. It wasn't until I relayed to this final gentleman the precise expense of a half-page ad space in Shotgun News, my willingness to spend the money and a copy of my intended editorial...that my dissatisfaction with Taurus began to gain traction, an equitable settlement established & the issue (finally) resolved.

By your response to coolhand, it seems you also require & expect an inordinate amount of documentation & evidence to "believe his claims". A Warranty Claim shouldn't be a test of endurance or a battle of tenacity. Unless you build questionable guns and imagine yourself indignantly insulted when they break. And now your latest deflection is personally observed, gun range owner abuse?!? pleeease

 

[azrn]

i must admit that i have been using taurus handguns for years with no problems. that includes the pt 22, pt 145, the tcp 738 and a nice 605 snubby. azrn

 

[Sam1911]

must admit that i have been using taurus handguns for years with no problems

No need to feel like you're "admitting" something! It is good to hear that some of the guns Taurus puts out are reliable and problem-free.

As Guillermo says, no manufacturer is going to publish their "lemon percentage" or how many guns they get back for service, or how many they just don't end up getting to work.

So if we are all to make informed judgments, we need as many points of data as we can get. All the good, and all the bad. And we should be careful not to denigrate or down-play EITHER.

 

[Russ Jackson]

You would huh? He took an easier tact & already has told you why. He RAN OUT OF PATIENCE and sold/swapped it to a guy (dealer) who HAD MORE PATIENCE. For the record, I've BEEN up the "feeding chain" (all the way to V.P., so I was told) of the Taurus company and it was a severely arduous trek of worthless assurances, elitist dismissals, scandalous falsehoods & relentless foot-dragging. I was repeatedly given every possible opportunity to become soooo frustrated that I disappeared from their radar having blow-up (and out) from the sheer madness of the process, it almost worked as I nearly lost patience. It may be, perhaps, an unspoken technique & subtile part of their warranty. It wasn't until I relayed to this final gentleman the precise expense of a half-page ad space in Shotgun News, my willingness to spend the money and a copy of my intended editorial...that my dissatisfaction with Taurus began to gain traction, an equitable settlement established & the issue (finally) resolved.

By your response to coolhand, it seems you also require & expect an inordinate amount of documentation & evidence to "believe his claims". A Warranty Claim shouldn't be a test of endurance or a battle of tenacity. Unless you build questionable guns and imagine yourself indignantly insulted when they break. And now your latest deflection is personally observed, gun range owner abuse?!? pleeease

There is no documentation whatsoever, only claims by unknown internet posters. Just like yours are only claims. Taurus is not here to defend itself. If they were I am sure they would have records of the incidence. I see you are very upset about this. You have definitely made your response known. Personally I would have written, talked to, and documented every person I talked to all the way up the line. I would never have gotten upset, angry, insulted, or considered it a battle. Its just a gun. Worth maybe $500. No way I ever get belligerent over an in adamant object. Whenever I have disputes over a products expectations or the service that I provided or if I hit a point i cannot meet a resolution I will always get a third party to solve the issue. Whether it be an inspector, lawyer, or a licensed gunsmith in this instance to help out....Russ

 

[Shipwreck]

Wow - one must video tape each and every malfunction along with every Taurus contact made in order to satisfy Russ Jackson -- Otherwise, any poster who complains about Taurus must be considered a liar by Russ Jackson. No questions asked... Automatic... Provide proof or you are lying...

Damn... Notice that one one has to provide this sorta proof on any other gun unless its a Taurus. That should tell ya something out there (to anyone considering the "Taurus Experience")....

 

[jad0110]

I posted earlier about my personal experiences. I own one great Taurus (a 431 3" .44 Special), and used to own a great 6" 66 (I've recently regretted selling it). Buy I also owned a messed up 94, that I mistakenly purchased without having inspected it very carefully. My fault.

I do not hate Taurus, though I won't ever deal with their CS dept again. I will instead deal with a skilled, local gunsmith I've come to know.

However, I've learned to always inspect my purchases carefully. And given that I'm a revolver nut, I handle a LOT of revolvers of varying makes. I see plenty of Taurus revolvers that pass the revolver checkout, but I do note a higher percentage than other brands that do NOT pass my inspections.

I honestly can't speak to Taurus semi autos, but when it comes to revolvers, there are plenty of functional, good quality examples out there. But there are a significant number of turds too. So given my own experience and observations, either extreme absolute (all are wonderful and better than S&W, Colt and Ruger or all are total crap) just isn't reasonable.

Each gun must be judged on its own merits.

 

[Ghost Tracker]

Personally I would have written, talked to, and documented every person I talked to all the way up the line.

I did have a date/time record of every call, every person on that call, every shooting event, every failure, every breakage. How do you think I was able to write a convincing enough sequence of events to sway a V.P.'s mind?

...considered it a battle.

It shouldn't have been battle, that's the point. It never should have taken the time & effort expended to achieve a repair.

It's just a gun...worth maybe $500

So, $500 is a casual, dismissible expense to you? Then why don't you add a hundred or two & buy higher quality guns that don't require Warranty Claims? Wait!, I forgot, your Taurus experience has been satisfactory. Congratulations, you've beaten the obvious odds.

...a third party to solve the issue

Please talk slowly so I can fully understand this, you want to further complicate the Taurus Warranty Circus with 3rd party Inspectors, Lawyers and Licensed Gunsmiths? Are you serious? $500 is dismissible, throw-away money but the above mentioned professionals now work for...free? Heck Russ, I don't know any reputable gunsmiths who'll WORK on a Taurus. Only slightly more shooters who'll carry one. And your best suggestion to the overwhelming number of dissatisfied Taurus customers (in this thread alone) is 3rd Party arbitration?

Your pretzel-logic amazes, but doesn't confuse, me. Please respond to my previous challenge (and LawScholar's caveat). And I don't understand the word "weather" in the last line of your previous post. Best Regards, GT

 

[LawScholar]

There is no documentation whatsoever, only claims by unknown internet posters. Just like yours are only claims. Taurus is not here to defend itself. If they were I am sure they would have records of the incidence. I see you are very upset about this. You have definitely made your response known. Personally I would have written, talked to, and documented every person I talked to all the way up the line. I would never have gotten upset, angry, insulted, or considered it a battle. Its just a gun. Worth maybe $500. No way I ever get belligerent over an in adamant object. Whenever I have disputes over a products expectations or the service that I provided or if I hit a point i cannot meet a resolution I will always get a third party to solve the issue. Weather it be an inspector, lawyer, or a licensed gunsmith in this instance to help out....Russ

Question, Russ. Given that multiple guns are cheaper AND higher quality than many Tauri (Ruger SR9 and LC9, Stoeger Cougar, Sig 2022), why would we lie?

 

[Russ Jackson]

Wow - one must video tape each and every malfunction along with every Taurus contact made in order to satisfy Russ Jackson -- Otherwise, any poster who complains about Taurus must be considered a liar by Russ Jackson. No questions asked... Automatic... Provide proof or you are lying...

Damn... Notice that one one has to provide this sorta proof on any other gun unless its a Taurus. That should tell ya something out there (to anyone considering the "Taurus Experience")....

Not true however this is a Taurus thread. You can find similar things said about Kimber, Hi-Point, Charter Arms etc...Russ

 

[Russ Jackson]

I did have a date/time record of every call, every person on that call, every shooting event, every failure, every breakage. How do you think I was able to write a convincing enough sequence of events to sway a V.P.'s mind? It shouldn't have been battle, that's the point. It never should have taken the time & effort expended to achieve a repair. So, $500 is a casual, dismissible expense to you? Then why don't you add a hundred or two & buy higher quality guns that don't require Warranty Claims? Wait!, I forgot, your Taurus experience has been satisfactory. Congratulations, you've beaten the obvious odds. Please talk slowly so I can fully understand this, you want to further complicate the Taurus Warranty Circus with 3rd party Inspectors, Lawyers and Licensed Gunsmiths? Are you serious? $500 is dismissible, throw-away money but the above mentioned professionals now work for...free? Heck Russ, I don't know any reputable gunsmiths who'll WORK on a Taurus. Only slightly more shooters who'll carry one. And your best suggestion to the overwhelming number of dissatisfied Taurus customers (in this thread alone) is 3rd Party arbitration?

Your pretzel-logic amazes, but doesn't confuse, me. Please respond to my previous challenge (and LawScholar's caveat). And I don't understand the word "weather" in the last line of your previous post. Best Regards, GT

Sorry about the spelling error I bet I have a few more if you search further. When we get down to spelling errors I guess I have made my point. Continually sending a gun back and not getting it fixed would lead me to getting it fixed on my own. Especially if you paid for the shipping. If it was something simple the gunsmith would have fixed it for less than the price to ship it. If he felt it should be shipped to the manufacturer you could have accompanied it with a letter from him as to the problem. Hey its just me you are the scholar, linguist, and wordsmith...Russ

I fixed the spelling error. Never meant to be personal about the issue. Just voicing my opinion on Taurus in a Taurus thread. God Bless...Russ

 

[Ghost Tracker]

You can find similar things said about Kimber, Hi-Point, Charter Arms etc...Russ

Not true, I had Warranty Repair from two of those companies. I explained the problem...they fixed my concern. No muss, no fuss, no delay, no legaleze. One (Kimber) even sent a FED EX call-tag to cover freight heading their way.

 

[Guillermo]

As Guillermo says, no manufacturer is going to publish their "lemon percentage"

but I didn't say it with as much eloquence.

 

[Ghost Tracker]

continually sending a gun back

Then please tell me, what good is a Lifetime Warranty if I've gotta' pay my gunsmith?

...something simple the gunsmith could have fixed..

Cracked plastic frame, twice in 19 shots, once in 3 shots after the first warranty return. How good are the the 'smiths that YOU know?

...accompanied with a letter from him...

Yep, letter from both of us. As well as a pre-ship CS call. We were told how to ship it & who to ship it to. Waited 6 weeks for any word. Nothing. Started my pursuit at that point.

...you are the scholar, linguist and wordsmith...

Nope, just a bumpkin. I've simply listened (watched) you summarily dismantle folks who dare to suggest that a Taurus purchase wasn't the value that YOU believe it to be. And then, rather than addressing their personal Taurus experience, picking the fly "scat" out of the pepper in an attempt to skirt debate. Hence, the mention of "weather". My challenge remains, care to address it? Best Regards, GT

 

[HoboCoastie]

Wow. 6 pages of "Tauruses SUCK" and "No! They're GREAT!!!" LMAO. Ever wonder why there's so many "Tauruses Suck" threads?

No one ever wins this argument. It's pretty ridiculous if you're a Taurus owner to NOT admit that they have had numerous quality issues. I had a buddy who bought the 24/7 OSS I think it was called, and he said he did all the research and told me that "Based on comments from real operators, they're great guns with no problems" I'd love to know who these "real operators" were. LOL.

Well, needless to say, my smile connected my ears when right out of the box at the range the slide locked to the rear with two rounds left in the magazine and continued to do so for the rest of the day...two rounds that wouldn't have been there if needed...two opportunities at continued life delayed into action by a faulty firearm.

These are the things that I see that put up a red light for me and Taurus. When I bought my XDM40, I paid for a 16 round capacity that I have gotten every single time without fail. When I bought my G23, I paid for 13 rounds that I've gotten every single time.

In fairness, I think Taurus' quality has increased significantly of late, but I'm not ready to trust them with my life just yet.

 

[Russ Jackson]

Not true, I had Warranty Repair from two of those companies. I explained the problem...they fixed my concern. No muss, no fuss, no delay, no legaleze. One (Kimber) even sent a FED EX call-tag to cover freight heading their way.

I wasn't referring to you. I obviously upset you and have taken this personal. I really do not nor did I mean to make you mad. I certainly did not want to get into a spelling or punctuation contest. I know several people with the Taurus brand that have had no problems. Shot many of them. Personally I think the Raging Bull is a superior gun to the Ruger Super Redhawk. Many disagree with my views. You have had problems with Taurus and have made it very clear. You have even defended others situations. I stated I would have handled it differently in a professional manner instead of getting very upset and personal. Unfortunately your problem led you to have to threaten Taurus with a half page ad in a major paper. Demand the VP compensate you. We only have heard your side of this situation. Long before I would ever take out a 1/2 page ad in a paper at several thousand dollars I would consult a gunsmith. Hey that's just me. That's all I said. It seemed extreme to me. And $500 is not pocket change to me. However it is nowhere near the amount needed to upset me at that level. I am also sorry if my misspelling (actually using the wrong word) forced you to call me out. I did go back and fix it as not to upset you any further.

Have a Great Day...Russ

 

[Benzene]

Once a huge outcry?

Was there not so long ago a huge outcry (several pages online) about the lock being turned on "automatically" on the S&W 642? Thereafter, there arose an almost equally huge catalogue of "celebrations" about that particular weapon.

My Taurus 608, 617, PT 145 have all been functioning excellently! How could I complain?

 

[zxcvbob]

Was there not so long ago a huge outcry (several pages online) about the lock being turned on "automatically" on the S&W 642? Thereafter, there arose an almost equally huge catalogue of "celebrations" about that particular weapon.

My Taurus 608, 617, PT 145 have all been functioning excellently! How could I complain?

If you have to have a lock on a revolver, Taurus did that one right. I'll given 'em credit for that. It's a lot better system (simpler) than S&W's.

 

[Myles]

Tastes great...
Less filling...

I have a dislike of Ruger handguns, even though I own a few. Why? Bad history.

I like my Taurus handguns. Why? Good history.

 

[coolluke01]

Russ, Nothing I can say will make you believe me. You are in essence calling me a liar.
If you want more information then ask for more information. Don't accuse we of withholding information that would hurt my case.
I bought the gun new from Cabellas. They told me to call Taurus and deal with them. I live 4 hours from this Cabellas, so bringing there would prove difficult. I did bring it to a gun dealer in the area. He told me the timing was off and the cylinder didn't line up with the barrel on all stages. Some stages it would line up well others it was way off. This was shown to me using a light behind the cylinder while looking down the barrel. I used many different types of ammo. Once I learned that the timing was off I quit shooting it and sent it back.
I kept all my paperwork that I got from Taurus and would send it all back with the gun each time. I couldn't get anymore info from them either. I called many times between each of the repairs. I was placed on hold once for a long time and must have been forgotten about. All they would ever say is that it was either fixed or adjusted.
I could never get anyone other than the first person that answered the phone. Even when they wouldn't pay the return shipping and i called them and told the person on the phone that I wasn't hanging up until I got to talk to someone that would refund me the shipping cost. Terrible CS. When I sent it back for the third time, they told me to box it up and that FedEx would be by with a shipping label to put on the box and they would then take the package. I never ordered the shipping label or the pickup. Somehow they got FedEx to come and pick up a package at my house and charge me the shipping. I called Taurus many times and they would always say ok we'll take care of it. Many months later... FedEx is threatening me still saying that I need to pay for the over night shipping costs.

And all your talk about having pictures and names from third parties and names and pictures of everyone I talked to at Taurus with a type written dictation of everything that was said. Would only be necessary if I had to explain this to a child. As we are adults you will just have to take my word for it, or continue in blind ignorance.

 

[LawScholar]

You know, I would be perfectly content letting the in-denial Taurus faithful trickle their money away on inferior firearms made by a less-than-reputable company. The thing that upsets me is that Taurus floods the market with ads that tout the quality of their product and how it's fit for an operator, fit for life or death situations. So a guy buys a Taurus, tucks it in his nightstand, only to have it be much more likely than a Glock, Springfield, Beretta, Sig, Smith, etc. to fail in the time of need due to a lack of quality control and put his family in mortal peril. A gunsmith here or on TFL posted that a person bought a Taurus .380, carried it for a year, never shooting. When the customer finally tried the gun, it locked up on the first shot.

The firearms-diehard that post on gun forums are nothing like Joe Anybody who buys one gun and tucks it away in a Gunvault, never to shoot it.

It is that casual family-protecting consumer that Taurus most miserably and unconscionably fails with their hyperbolic ads, and I can't let that go.

 

[fireside44]

Well, I ran down the thread and here are the stats

Totally satisfied:
29 posts

Partially satisfied:
7 posts

Dissatisfied/Observed Poor Quality Firsthand:
18 posts

Positive Hearsay:
1 post

Negative Hearsay/"My Friend Experience"
9 posts

This isn't exactly precise. I tried to weed out the people who posted about the same thing twice but can't be sure I got them all.

I will say that about 6 of the biggest complainers on this thread bought/observed the cheapest Taurus made, a .22, and the other guy bought the cheapest SA revolver made, a Gaucho.

My question is how many of the complainers examined their purchases before throwing money down? Many of them admitted to buying what they knew was the cheapest product they made. In my opinion buying a gun sight unseen from any maker is a huge gamble in today's high demand market. You never know what you are gonna get.

EDIT: Add +1 to the totally satisfied list as I have never experienced any problems with Taurus products.

 

[LawScholar]

^ Even considering the hearsay, that's like a 42% negative experience rate. I've seen threads here and on other forums where the negative percentage is closer to 75%. Is that acceptable? Do you think you'd get similar results with Sig or Glock?

Also, cheap is no excuse for shoddy. I have two Ruger firearms that were sub-$300. Both flawless.

 

[fireside44]

I've seen threads here and on other forums where the negative percentage is closer to 75%. Is that acceptable?

It doesn't really matter so long as the user is satisfied and confident in his equipment. Further, "you've seen threads" is just more hearsay evidence when the totals show that the majority of users have had positive or mostly positive experiences.

One guy noted that not all of the Taurus users are "power users" who shoot a lot, but most people who own guns do not shoot a lot. Many of these non "power users" own cheaper guns and do not participate in gun foruming and so the results will always be skewed because forums attract fanboys and shooting addicts by their nature.

And for the guy who kept saying "has any non-brazilian LE/military agency use Taurus?", well, SOG is offering model 82's from a "foreign" government (not specified) in the latest Shotgun News for $130.

So there.

 

[Benzene]

Stats on G 23

What fireside44 said! Talking about "negative percentage", that "percentage" was not small regarding "KABOOMS" on the G23. That prevented me from enjoying one for too long. Then a friend on mine who's in law enforcement put it almost exactly as, "It doesn't really matter so long as the user is satisfied and confident in his equipment", and showed me what was in HIS holster. I've been enjoying my 3rd gen G23!

A similar "argument" kept a buddy of mine from buying a Kimber for a long time. As far as I know, he's still paralized by that "negative percentage" statistic.

I'm not shooting my Kobra Carry as much nowadays because of "negative percentage" regarding peening.

I've not bought an S&W 642 because of the "negative percentage" related to the lock malfunction. But that's just me.

 

[LawScholar]

So, the fact that I've seen thread on forums is hearsay, despite the fact that if I cared enough to search this thread, TFL, GlockTalk, and AR15 I could have six links is a minute, but an offhand reference to an ad for Taurus guns that references a nonspecific foreign Taurus contract is not only not hearsay, but proof of issue to a military or police force?

The double standard is interesting. At the end of the day, my problem will always be with the marketing to ignorant folks of "reliable" pistols. I have no problem with other shooters with full access to the massive droves of info - with pictures, specific models and everything - about how often Taurus completely drops the ball, who have chosen inexplicably to cast their lot with a brand that is to a large number of shooters synonymous with failure.