Wheel Gun Advice

[CZ52GUY]

Hi,

I have the opportunity to join a private club with a small (restricted - lead bullets only, less than 1000 FPS) indoor range. Outdoor facilities are numerous and expansive but the weather up my way makes the outdoor ranges "limited access at best" for several weeks a year.

Not that it will be the only place I can shoot, but if I'm to join a sportsmen's club, I'd like to frequent it in the winter months to hopefully maintain some relationships (perhaps participate in some events - I think they have an indoor pistol league).

With a nice stable of autoloaders, I don't have a one that I'd be willing to shoot lead thru'...the velocities on most aren't terribly compatible anyway.

So...I'm in the market for a wheel gun...thinking a DA .357 Mag so I can shoot .38 Special indoors at the restricted range in the winter time (should meet their restrictions), and either outdoors (or at the public access range I often visit) the rest of the year.

Not really in the market for a carry gun, or a home defense gun. Never had a revolver so it's probably time to get one. Reliability is priority one, value is priority two, versatility is probably 3rd on my list.

Suggestions? Things an autoloader guy should know about wheelies?

Thanks in advance,

CZ52'

 

[Ala Dan]

Either a 6" Ruger GP-100 series, or a 6" S&W 686
ought to serve you well. On and indoor range, you
just might be beter off with a 4" barrel; but outside
over longer distances, the 6" tube would be my pick!

Value wise, you can probably find both used but LNIB
at a reduced rate?

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[tc300mag1]

I second a ruger gp 100 or a speed six if you can find one

Edit for my Std piss poor spelling

 

[JohnKSa]

or a peed six if you can find one

OK, I know what you mean, but somehow that really tickled my funny bone.

 

[tc300mag1]

Typing to fast while playing nascar and my poor spelling should always give some laughs

 

[munk]

If you're going to shoot .38 I think you should get a 38. I picked up a pinned barrel 38 target Smith for 180 bucks three years ago. It was in perfect condition. I don't think a decent 38 is hard to find or costs a lot of money.






munk

 

[CZ52GUY]

Thanks!

Does a revolver have any inherent advantage for accuracy over longer distances? I guess a longer barrel probably does translate into a better chance for accuracy, longer sight radius doesn't hurt either. Obviously, the shooter has to do their part too...

Do you tend to shoot a different practice routine with your wheelies than autoloaders?

Sorry to sound so ignorant, but as a life-long autoloader guy that just never bothered much with wheelies...this opportunity has opened the door for a lot of pent up questions...seems like a terrific chance to experience something new under the sun, I just want to learn as much as I can before plucking down my hard earned $$.

Thanks again,

CZ52'

 

[Josey]

Two choices. S&W or Colt. K-38 or Diamondback. 4" or 6".

 

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All-

Munk my friend, he did list versatility as his #3
option, did he not? If so, that would warrant a .357 magnum!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[CZ52GUY]

From the limited research I've done with revolvers, the models you folks listed are solid citizen models with very good reputations.

Are there "sleepers" out there that may not have the same following that should also be considered? Within my autoloader collection I've found a few of those that I've particularly enjoyed...curious if there are any equivalents in the revolver world I should be considering also?

Thanks,

CZ52'

 

[munk]

<<<<Greeting's All-

Munk my friend, he did list versatility as his #3
option, did he not? If so, that would warrant a .357 magnum!>>>> Ala dan

Yes!! But then he went on to list the two things he would not be using it for- which included the main things a 357 might be called upon to do!!! Defense and carry!


So, since he needed it for target shooting with the bunch at the indoor range, I decided in my humble way that he should get a 38.

munk

 

[tbeb]

I suggest a .357 magnum with a 4" or 6" barrel and adjustable sights. You can shoot .38 specials in a .357 magnum and that's mostly what you'll practice with. I've owned 3 that I can recommend. They are Smith and Wesson models 19 (blue) and 66 (stainless), and Stainless Ruger GP100. Smith and Wesson models 586 (blue) and 686 (stainless) are a little beefier than the 19 & 66, but I never shot either of them. Smith and Wesson model 27 is nice too. Same gun but with a finish that is not as fancy is the Smith and Wesson model 28. The 27 and 28 are "N" frames and I'd say a bigger than average hand is needed. The 19 and 66 are "K" frames which fit about everyone's hand. The 586 and 686 are "L" frames and I'm not sure of grip size. I'd say the Ruger is the strongest, followed by the "L" frames. My personal favorite is the Smith and Wesson model 66. There's plenty of nice used ones out there in all of the above models. Jim March has a pretty good check list for revolver condition, at top of revolver forum--check it out.

 

[Old Fuff]

Years ago I shot a lot of .38 Special wadcutters (148 grain lead bullet at around 700 FPS) in an indoor 50 ft. range in Michigan during the winter. While I had several .357 Magnums I seldom used them with .38 waductters because the accuracy in the longer Magnum chambers suffered some and I soon got tired cleaning lead out of the chamber throats.

My favored revolver was a Smith & Wesson K-38 Target Masterpiece which became the model 14, or in .357 Magnum, the model 19. Both were built on S&W’s K-frame and had 6 inch barrels and target model trimmings. I would recommend either, but in particular the model 14 because these days everybody wants a Magnum so the .38’s go for attractive prices.

Concerning the club. I would go and look around before it gets too warm and see what the other members are shooting. I suspect, winters being what they are, that you can dedicate one or several guns to indoor shooting, although a good .38 target revolver/148 grain wadcutter combination is x-ring accurate to 50 yards and further.

In the center-fire accuracy department a good revolver will shoot circles around any automatic pistol except the best (and most expensive) target grade pistols. There are exceptions of course, but they are few and far between.

Last but not least, if you are going to shoot indoors don’t pass up a good .22 LR pistol. They are inexpensive to shoot and a lot of fun.

 

[Majic]

Unless you plan to use the power of a magnum why not just get a .38sp? Smith had the Masterpieces (Target and Combat) and Colt had the Officers Models (Target, Special, Match). Both makers had those revolvers on many target ranges over the years and were THE guns to beat.
Alternatives to the .357/.38 would be a .44sp. Another well known accurate cartridge with lead bullets with velocities under 1000fps.
Another thought since you are a pistol shooter is to go with a .45acp pistol. That caliber performs excellently with lead bullets running under 900fps. As a side note, the .45acp revolvers (if you so choose) are great fun to shoot.

 

[Black Majik]

CZGuy,

I went through a "similar" situation as you a week ago, I'm also a autoloader guy (1911 fanatic) but I wanted my first wheelgun. Looking for a .357 magnum, it was difficult to decide between the Ruger GP100 or S&W 686. For target shooting the 6" would be almost perfect.

In the end, my First wheelgun, a S&W 686 PP will be picked up tomorrow morning!

I am so excited I wont be sleeping much tonight.

 

[chaim]

Like Munk I would suggest you consider looking at the .38spl. Sure, it isn't as versatile as the .357mag, but it sounds like the main use for this gun will be at your indoor range which severely limits velocity anyway. There are two main advantages to a .38spl if you are mostly going to shoot .38s out of it. One is that when you shoot .38 out of a .357 there is a lead ring that forms in the chambers that is a pain to clean out, and if it builds up enough you can face dangerous pressure levels when you shoot magnums out of it. The other advantage is that used S&W .38spls are usually pretty substantially cheaper than used .357mags (the magnums are in higher demand). Heck, even if you look new, the new .38s will often be anywhere from 10-25% less money.

If you want a .357mag it is hard to beat a K-frame. They are the smallest and lightest .357mags that you can comfortably shoot magnums from (as much as I love .357mag I really don't like it in a J-frame). They point well, they are more comfortable to hold (less cumbersome), they look good...

For your use the adjustable sights are probably the way to go. Even if you never adjust them, I think they are a tad bit easier to pick up quickly. Still, there are some nice fixed sight revolvers you shouldn't discount.

Specific suggestions
-S&W M19: If you must go with the magnum it is hard to beat the classic, blued and adjustable sight M19. Only available used.
-S&W 66: The stainless M19, still available new.
-S&W 13 or 65: Fixed sights, otherwise the same as the 19 and 66 (the 13 is blued, the 65 is stainless)
-S&W M10: The classic, the one the other modern S&Ws are based on. Fixed sights, blue, .38spl, very basic, the standard police handgun for nearly a century. There are a ton of these out there so you can get these at some pretty nice prices.
-S&W 15: Fixed sight version of above. Fewer were made so probably a bit more money, but not bad
-Taurus 82: Fixed sight, .38spl. New ones are pretty decent, and they can be had out the door for under $300 in most areas. I think the adjustable sight version, the 83, is discontinued but you may still find some on dealers shelves for similar prices.
-Taurus 65 or 66: .357mags that can be had for a little over $300, new. The 65 has fixed sights, the 66 is adjustable and holds 7 rounds.
-Taurus Tracker in .357: Nice, medium frame, adjustable sight, 7 shot revolver. Get it in steel and not titanium and it is every bit as nice as any of the current production S&Ws.

I would suggest a 3" or 4", but anything from 3-6" should be near ideal for your uses.

 

[Ala Dan]

Att: All

Just to let you folks know that honestly I consider
Munk my friend; and I wasn't trying to in any
way discredit his judgement; or the judgement of
others. I merely was making a point that I have
had excellent results delivered by my 6" S&W 686.
To tell you the truth, I like the Ruger KGP-161 as
good as I do the Smith. Both of these, or a S&W
K-38 Masterpiece (model 14) and even a good old
Colt Diamondback would serve you well.

My friend Old Fuff's point is well taken; as I avoid
the use of 148 grain LWC like the plague in my 686!

Let it be known, that the addition of a WOLFF spring
kit will greatly improve the actions of the S&W or Ruger.
My DA got so good with the installation of the 13 lbs.
trigger return spring, that I stopped fooling with it!

Chaim, my ole pal from the east coast has provided
some very good alternatives, that you may want to
take a look at?

And, I almost forgot my great friend Richard (better
known as Black Majik) out there on the west coast!
We have discussed "issues" concerning the S&W 686
at length many, many times; but I feel as thought he's
gonna be mighty proud of that new shoot'in iron. I
would like to congratulate him on an excellent choice;
although I have NO personal experience with the S&W's
"Power Port". Enjoy~

After all, here at THR:

"WE ARE FAMILY" by Sister Sledge 1979

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[Jim March]

In my opinion, the two big "sleepers" in DA wheelguns are:

* Dan Wessons. The 15 and 715 were the basic medium-frame 357s - 15 being blue, "7" signifying stainless). Great guns, and when you can find a "pistol pack" with multiple barrels, *heaven*. The larger-frame guns are good stuff too, if that's what you want.

* Ruger's first series of DA wheelgun, the "Service Six/Speed Six" series. Sixshooters that were a bit like slightly beefy K-Frames...smaller than the GP100 but generally considered finer-finished. Discontinued because they were too expensive to produce.

What else...every once in a while you'll come across High Standard wheelguns. Not common, but often quite good. Sometimes..."weird" - they were the first to do 8-shot 22Mags on a J-frame-size platform, which Taurus later copied.

Here's an example - like most HS wheelguns it's rimfire but 38/357 are encountered sometimes. Look at the really slick shaping of the frame behind the cylinder:

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=17019458

The rimfire variants were common enough that you can find parts (both LR and Magnum). That's not really true of the centerfire wheelguns though.

Dan Wesson as a company has died and come back and died a few times. The current company is doing well though and is servicing older variants. DWs have often been considered "stealth target guns" - the larger-frame variants are still often "the ones to beat" in long-range metallic silluette competion, although in situations where SA will work the Freedom Arms are even more accurate. Still, DWs are considered the most accurate DAs ever made with the exception of the Python, Manhurin and Korth (all WAY more money) and never built in "handcannon calibers".

 

[Ala Dan]

That's an outstanding opinion, from my friend
Mr. Jim March! My personal favorite
was the 4" barrel stainless Ruger "Security-Six",
a gun that died before its time!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[Josey]

The Taurus 66 is an excellent sleeper. I had one. I had to use it to prevent an arson. I had 0 complaints. It was an accurate, lightweight and comfortable to shoot all day revolver. My Taurus 66 never met a bullet it didn't like.

 

[Jim March]

In studying reports of Taurus wheelies around here and elsewhere, the *fewest* complaints seem to involve the standard mid - to - large frame steel guns (blue or stainless).

As you get into smaller 5shooters and esp. the Ti/Aluminum critters, reports of "issues" go up.

So in that sense yes, the basic steel model 66 is indeed a sleeper.

(Then again, the number of complaints isn't THAT high and most people do get issues sorted out at the factory, although...well, the speed varies.)

 

[CZ52GUY]

Thanks!

As usual, THR is the place to come for good advice.

The heads up regarding lead build up with the LWC's is very much appreciated. Should I go the .357 Mag route, I'll need to be sure to stay ahead of that.

The points about getting a value priced .38 SP for this particular purpose are well taken. I've never been shy about adding to my collection. The idea of perhaps a value priced 4" .38 SP for indoors (or maybe even a snubbie - or both) and a 6" .357 Mag for outdoors is a possibility.

There's little in sport shooting that I don't have an interest in...I shoot rifles (both bolt and semi's), shotguns (trap and Home Defense), and lots of autoloaders (of various brands, calibers, and purposes). I expect to put my toe in the water for autoloader competing this summer.

With all the possibilities and the fun that one can have with wheelies...it may be better to emphasize value ahead of versatility, and seek to add more than one wheelie over time.

Of course then there is cowboy action shooting which I haven't tried...black powder...so many alternatives, so little time.

Thanks again to the THR FAMILY for all the great advice!

Keep it coming, all opinions are welcome.

Best wishes,

CZ52'

P.S. Got notified last night my application was approved, I head over for orientation Saturday AM!

 

[Sport45]

You've got some great suggestions for revolvers here. I think everyone should have several.

With a "nice stable" of autoloaders, have you tried 200gr cast SWC in your 1911? (everyone should have at least one 1911 also.) I find them fun to shoot and easy to clean up even after shooting lead.

 

[CZ52GUY]

re: lead .45 ACP

My nice stable is an...eclectic collection...some common names (Sig', Glock, Browning, Ruger, CZ is becoming more common) some not as common (Makarov, CZ52, Arcus98). I have yet to take the 1911 plunge. My big problem with a 1911 is which one? I've heard good things about the Springer's and Colts...mixed reviews on the Chuck Daly's and Kimbers.

I know I need a 1911, but since my buddy has a nice Springer I get to shoot sometimes, and nobody in my shooting circle has a DA Revolver (we're an autoloader bunch I guess), I'm inclined to be the first to take the plunge.

I expect I'll get a 1911 eventually, but with 12 Autoloaders in the safes, I'll probably wait on another one until I have at least one wheelie.

Best wishes,

CZ52'

 

[Airboss]

Wheelgun

Well everyone has given good advice but I will help out/confuse you with one more.
As you are a Bottom feeder kind of guy,I would look at a S&W 625/25 in .45ACP I have a couple well three if your counting and my 5" will drive tacks at 25 yards groups of 11/2" to 2" are not uncommon w/200gr LSWC at 800FPS very pleasent to shoot.One other thing vis-a-vis the brand,ever notice when people are talking about the trigger in their revolver You hear"Its almost as good as a Smith or if you do this or that it will be like a Smith"Get a Smith and cut out the steps inbetween.The down side to getting a 625 is that you will find yourself wanting more and more N frames then J Frames and K Frames the sickness doesn't stop.Enjoy and welcome to the wonderful world of Revolvers