When Did Auto Loaders Become Prevalent?

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Treo

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We have a network that plays all retro T.V. (including comercials) all the time. & I've been noticing that almost everyone in these shows carries a revolver. A notable exception is Thomas Magnums 1911. I even noticed the other night I was watching Dan Akaroid's "Dragnet" & every one in that was carrying revolvers. So when did the Auto Loader become prevalent? late 80s? Mid 90s? When?
 
Yep. Seems like late 80's/early 90's. I noticed a lot more when two things happened:

1. The military/police adopted the Baretta
2. Police began to adopt the Glock

Hollywood made changes around then too. Call it the "Lethal Weapon" effect. 16 shots makes for better action scenes, and more "believable" infinite ammo supplies.
 
During the Wonder-Nine years, I reckon... which were around 1980 (at least the Glock 17 was). Glock's reliability marketing of "Perfection" helped with semi acceptance, I expect. People thought they were just as reliable as revolvers - with two-to-three times their capacity. Pure win from their perspective.
Don't forget the Bren Ten in Miami Vice.
 
I think the Lethal Weapon comment kinda nailed it. I remember a scene in LW1 where Mel Gibson even kids Danny Glover about being an old fart for carrying a "wheel gun"
 
I loved IT! I picked up 2 Mod 27's and one Mod 28 and 3 Mod 19's durring those times! Yes! Average price 225 or so. People could not get rid of them old fashioned revolver guns quick enough.
 
The military started going to autos in the early 1900s (P08, 1911, etc). Law enforcement started changing over in the mid 1980s and by the mid 90s the auto just about totally replaced the revolver.
 
Auto loaders

In answer to the question, it depends on where you are and what you do. The police in the US were stuck on revolvers for a long time until relatively recently. In Europe semi autos have been popular since very early in the 20th century; FN/Browing 1910 then High Power, Mauser 1910,1914, 1934 and many others. Then there is that thing known as the 1911.

The Beretta M9 replaced the 1911, both semi autos.

Don't use tv programs and movies as a measure of anything.
 
The rise of the autoloader is inversely proportionate to the emasculation of man.
:neener:
 
The rise of the autoloader is inversely proportionate to the emasculation of man.
LOL.
So mathematically speaking, what is the exact value of the emasculation constant? :p

Jason
 
Whatever the 'emasculation constant' is, it resides in two large metropolitan areas north of Orange County, CA.
Cordially,
Jack in Sandy Eggo
 
The reason I brought this up, as I mentioned earlier, is this new "retrovision" which is very similar to turning on the T.V. and stepping 25 years back in time. I noticed while watching Magnum P.I. the other day that even as late as 1985 use of revolvers was almost MONOLITHIC . all the BGs had 'em all the cops ( oddly enough they all appeared to be the same model as well) Only Magnum ever displays an autoloader. The original Terminator was the same way Terminators .45 was portrayed as a very state of the art advanced weapon. On the A-team tonight there were M-16s, Uzis, FALs , of course the A-Team's magic Mini-30s. But only Hanibal & one of the bad guys carried Autoloaders ( Hanibal at one point identified his as an 8 shot 9mm W/ a hollowpoint in the chamber). I didn't really notice anyone carrying an autoloader until Lethal Weapon maybe Sudden impact.
Anyway that's what really struck me was to see EVERYONE W/ revolvers.
 
I would assume it is easier to spray with a high clip size autoloader while holding it sideways when gangsters are driving.
 
The original Terminator was the same way Terminators .45 was portrayed as a very state of the art advanced weapon.

Speaking of Terminators did anyone notice the large amount of 1911's in Terminator 2: Judgement Day?
 
There are many reasons that cause Law enforcement to change to automatics. Some will tell you it was the FBI Miami shootout of 1986. In that event 2 FBI agency were killed and 5 were injured by gunfire. On the other side of the law many gangster or some would call them gangbanger, used automatic to spray bullets at people they were try to kill. LEOs needed the 9mm, 45auto and 40cal just to keep up with the bad guys. It took their management-leadership just that long to catch up with the technology.
 
Here in Old Dixie'Land, autoloaders were seen riding in police duty holsters
as early as the late 70's; with the first major 9m/m in use being the S&W
model 59. This started the "wonder nine" craze; but not everybody was
sold on the double-stack theory, and some officers opted for the first
American made DA first shot 9m/m- in the form of the S&W 39/39-2. ;)

Of course, the U.S. Military had long since been using the .45 caliber
1911; before the S&W guns were a twinkle in the engineers eye~!
 
I remember watching old movies as a kid where all the good guys, usually cops or private eyes, used snub nosed .38s. The bad guys often had Lugers. I could never figure out why the bad guys got the neat guns.
 
Whatever the 'emasculation constant' is, it resides in two large metropolitan areas north of Orange County, CA.
Cordially,
Jack in Sandy Eggo
LMAO! It's funny, but it ain't...

Jason
 
LEOs carried 3rd generation S&W autos long before the the Glocks came to town.
+1!
And they carried 1st. & 2nd. gen S&W autos before the 3rd. gen S&W came along!

The Illinois State Police for one, adopted the S&W Model 39 in 1967.

Fully 15 years before the first Glock was invented.

rcmodel
 
Glock wasn't even the first polymer pistol.

The Heckler & Koch VP70 came out in 1970, while the Glock 17 didn't come out until the early 80's.
 
I think the popularity really came about as an outgrowth of what we once called combat pistol matches. I remember shooting a few before IPSC was founded in 1975.

Back then we were tuning our .45s, mostly Colts, to be accurate and reliable enough to handle the matches. We also included what we called falling plate (just steel plates that you had to knock over) and bowling pins in the early matches.

But, if you were going to be competitive your .45 had to work every time you pulled the trigger and be accurate enough to hit bowling pins in the center shot after shot.

At the time revolvers were much more popular for self defense because there wasn't much difference between carrying eight rounds of .45 and six of .357. And, revolvers were generally more accurate than autos.

I think thousands of shooters tuning their .45s and proving they were reliable and accurate opened a lot of eyes. Then along came the high-cap 9s.

IPSC was formed in 1975. I think its growth probably parallels the popularity of the autos.
 
This is a good question and as I see it the answer is kinda complex and touches on a number of developments some of which have already been mentioned. This is the short answer...

Up till the late 70s or 80s the U.S. was a nation of wheelgunners. In Europe it was different there the pistol had dominated from the early part of the 20th century. Walther, FN, Berretta, Gabilondo y Cia (and the other Spanish makers), Sauer, Mauser and many others had been producing quality self loaders for decades for military, police and civilian use. The Luger, the Walther P38, PP and PPK, the Sig P210, the BHP made by FN, the Radom Vis, Mauser HSC, Berretta's various products, etc. all were wide spread and some imported into the U.S. but with high tariffs that raised their prices.

I have a copy of Guns Illustrated from 1973 here. Under the heading of "U.S. semi-automatics" it lists the Colt 1911 GM and Commander (a Gold Cup National Match was MSRP $189.95). It lists the Hi-Power which was actually made in Belgium. It lists the S&W M39 (MSRP $128.00 for the nickled version). It lists many of the great .22s and a number of hideout guns in ,25, .32 and .380 from a few manufacturers. But other than the 1911 and the M39 it lists no other pistols made by U.S. manufacturers in a service caliber. None.

The same book lists under the heading "Imported Semi-automatics" many of the European made pistols mentioned above. A Walther P-38 was $129.00. A Sig P210 250.00. H&K P9S $179.00. Stars and Llamas were plentiful.

Other than the 1911 no major American manufacturers made any semis in a service caliber till after the second world war. None made a gun in 9mm till after the war.

At the end of the war the U.S. military flirted with the idea of dumping the 1911 and moving to a lighter weight, alloy framed sa/da pistol in 9mm. This prompted Colt to introduce the alloy framed Commander in 1949 in .45 acp, 38 Super, and 9mm. S&W came up with the M39 in 9mm in 1954.

Colt and S&W dominated the market for revolvers and semis. They counted on tariffs to keep imports out.

Semi's, other than the 1911 were looked on as foreign. Not American. Revolvers were American. This is why in movies and TV, in general,the bad guys had semis and the good guys wheelguns. Unless the good guy had a 1911.

Good rounds were available for hunting with a wheelgun or for self defense. Only ball ammo was available for a semi.

The 1911 had a decent number of fans but mostly bullseye shooters. The 1911 was widely considered a good gun for military purposes but most folks didn't need one and it was big, heavy and could be unreliable many thought.

Post war prosperity allowed many more people to get into the shooting sports. Demand slowly grew for more and varied guns. By the late 70s defensive shooting competitions began, spearheaded by folks like Jeff Cooper who championed the 1911.

Political and social conditions by the mid 80s were such that law enforcement in the U.S. began in large numbers to transition to semis and the 9mm. SWAT teams showed up for the first time. S&W, which already had a hold in the LEO market, began to respond the a threat to their dominance by introducing the first U.S. made double stack 9mm the M59 in 1982. S&W introduced their second generation semis in 84. Than Glock showed up and beat S&Ws price point. The military transitioned to the M9 (Berretta 92) and it was all over but the shouting.

In movies and TV Glocks, and Berretta's began to show up. Later Sigs. Pistols became sexy and cool. Revolvers a stamp that one was "old school". This took about a decade to happen.

Maybe someone can compare the guns used on Starsky and Hutch from 1975-79 to those used on Miami Vice '84-89 and see the difference a few years made.

tipoc
 
1984-1985, US military M-9 Beretta 92F...

To me, the big push for US semi auto pistols started with the US military/DoD selection of the "new" M-9 Beretta 92F 9mmNATO. ;)
This big pistol led the way for more sworn LEOs and armed citizens to buy/use 15 round+ type handguns. The Browning High Power and 1911a1 .45acp were popular but ammo selection was limited and many US marksman did not trust semi auto pistols, compared to other well made proven designs like the S&W model 19/66 or the Colt Python.
Popular films like Die Hard and Lethal Weapon increased the public interest in the 92F 9mmNATO too. The Beretta was large and looked very impressive. The SIG Sauer P-226 and P-220 models then later the Glock 17 9mmNATO started to grow as more pistols were used/fired...

Rusty S
 
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