When do you buy more ammunition versus buying a new weapon?
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RetiredUSNChief
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Wait...
There are some people out there who STOP buying more ammunition?
Honestly...this isn't an either/or thing with me. If I want to buy a gun, I budget for it and get it. That has no effect on my ammunition buying habits.
There are some people out there who STOP buying more ammunition?
Honestly...this isn't an either/or thing with me. If I want to buy a gun, I budget for it and get it. That has no effect on my ammunition buying habits.
Varminterror
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This question implies an under-defined or even undefined strategic vision.
What we’re talking about here is a differentiation between inventory on hand, operating costs, and capital planning. Buying a new gun is a capital expenditure, which also comes with some supply logistics and inherently incurs some inventory costs and most likely involves some continued operating costs. If your current operation is well sustained AND there remains additional budget for capital expenditures, then you’ll be able save capital investment and operating start up costs, AND determine if the budget will allow for that accumulating working capital to be transferred to operational cost in the future to keep that new gun operating.
Within that strategy, a person can play market planning games, where the prices of guns have trended behind inflation such they are CHEAPER today than they were in the past, whereas ammunition cost growth has traditionally exceeded inflation, but ultimately, a foundational strategy has to be established to determine the required logistics to supplement operational stability and sustainability.
I know I don’t need 100,000 rounds of .30-06, and 475Linebaugh, and 204 Ruger... a hundred rounds of each could last me a considerable amount of time. I do have justification to own 100,000 rounds of 22LR, as I do shoot it very often and in high volume, and supply chain interruptions are common. I do have cause to keep around 50lbs of Varget, another of H4350, another of H110 on hand, as I shoot these very often and in high volume. But with operating supply replenished regularly, and this healthy winterstock on hand, I don’t continue to stockpile irrationally. I dollar cost average my inventory until my winterstock is satisfied, then I redirect funds to capital savings until a new firearm demands new operating supply. Really pretty simple.
What we’re talking about here is a differentiation between inventory on hand, operating costs, and capital planning. Buying a new gun is a capital expenditure, which also comes with some supply logistics and inherently incurs some inventory costs and most likely involves some continued operating costs. If your current operation is well sustained AND there remains additional budget for capital expenditures, then you’ll be able save capital investment and operating start up costs, AND determine if the budget will allow for that accumulating working capital to be transferred to operational cost in the future to keep that new gun operating.
Within that strategy, a person can play market planning games, where the prices of guns have trended behind inflation such they are CHEAPER today than they were in the past, whereas ammunition cost growth has traditionally exceeded inflation, but ultimately, a foundational strategy has to be established to determine the required logistics to supplement operational stability and sustainability.
I know I don’t need 100,000 rounds of .30-06, and 475Linebaugh, and 204 Ruger... a hundred rounds of each could last me a considerable amount of time. I do have justification to own 100,000 rounds of 22LR, as I do shoot it very often and in high volume, and supply chain interruptions are common. I do have cause to keep around 50lbs of Varget, another of H4350, another of H110 on hand, as I shoot these very often and in high volume. But with operating supply replenished regularly, and this healthy winterstock on hand, I don’t continue to stockpile irrationally. I dollar cost average my inventory until my winterstock is satisfied, then I redirect funds to capital savings until a new firearm demands new operating supply. Really pretty simple.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
I wonder how many folks that buy guns and ammo for personal use treat it like a business?
Garandimal
member
chicharrones
needs more ammo
Think most folks treat'em like a new toy that takes batteries...
GR
With rechargeable and non-rechargeable "batteries" aka ammo.
Pretty much like burning fuel to drive a car or turning cigars into ash. Ultimately just turning money into smoke.
MachIVshooter
Member
Articulately stated, if not a bit like an accounting class thesis.
Simply put, I buy the guns I want when I can afford them comfortably, and stock an appropriate amount of ammunition for it. I keep thousands of rounds of 5.56, .308 and 9mm, hundreds for 10mm, .45, .38 spl, and many tens of thousands for. 22 LR, but it would be rather silly to stock in such quantities for my 8mm mag, .350 mag, .375 RUM, .454 Casull, or for many of the milsurps in oddball calibers, some of which I haven't fired in over a decade. I'm still working off the first hundred I loaded for 6.5x50 Jap, 7.35x51 Carcano, 7.5x54 French and many others. I don't shoot my old top breaks enough to keep more than a few hundred .32 S&W, .32 long or .38 S& W, either.
I use a lot of shotgun shells in the fall, when we go to Northern Maine for grouse. I'll burn about 5 boxes of shells in a typical season, so stock up on #6, #71/2...about 10 boxes on my shelves at any point. Just in case I want to shoot a few ducks, I'll have a box or two of steel shot #4s. I can reload 20s and 12s, but haven't had to for several years and don't shoot many clays before the season.
As far as deer hunting ammo, I reload my own for .270 Win. and .243 Win. I don't use any other cartridges for deer these days, but have had deer rifles in .30-06.
As far as deer hunting ammo, I reload my own for .270 Win. and .243 Win. I don't use any other cartridges for deer these days, but have had deer rifles in .30-06.
GBExpat
Member
So, More Arrows or More Bows?
It all depends upon what Good Deal(s) I happen to find and, at that time, what I feel that I want/need.
That said ...
In the first decade (as many here did, I'm sure) I took great advantage of the case-lots of in-ex-pen-sive milsurp ammo and assorted cheap milsurp firearms. Several years ago ammunition MFRs started running Rebate programs. Once again, I took great advantage to add to my supply at excellent pricing.
For the past year, or so, I have not come across anything that I would describe as a Good Deal. I am well-stocked with a varied assortment of firearms, a large quantity of ammunition for them and an excellent-for-me reloading setup with a deep supply of components, so ... I'm good.
I think others covered the basics well enough. If you are starting from scratch, you just need to figure out what you use the gun for and how much you are likely to shoot in say the next year. If it is for defense, you might plan to keep a minimum amount for a rainy day.
Another example might be 30-30. I have two lever guns now that shoot it. I might shoot 40 or 50 rounds on a range trip (or less). I would start with a goal of a hundred rounds per gun for just range use so I don't have to worry about buying it every time I shoot. Then I think about hunting so I want a few boxes of my chosen hunting load so it is available when I want it. All told, that isn't that much ammo but I think of it is a minimum goal. Someone might get more as money and opportunities are available. I would certainly recommend more if you have the means. I have known people who buy 2 boxes a year for hunting and no more.
If you can't afford to buy in bulk, the best advice I have heard is to plan to buy one or two boxes of ammo per week/month. If you can stay ahead of your shooting habit, you can accumulate a pretty good stash faster than you think. Most of us are going to keep these guns for years and the ammo lasts a very long time.
Another example might be 30-30. I have two lever guns now that shoot it. I might shoot 40 or 50 rounds on a range trip (or less). I would start with a goal of a hundred rounds per gun for just range use so I don't have to worry about buying it every time I shoot. Then I think about hunting so I want a few boxes of my chosen hunting load so it is available when I want it. All told, that isn't that much ammo but I think of it is a minimum goal. Someone might get more as money and opportunities are available. I would certainly recommend more if you have the means. I have known people who buy 2 boxes a year for hunting and no more.
If you can't afford to buy in bulk, the best advice I have heard is to plan to buy one or two boxes of ammo per week/month. If you can stay ahead of your shooting habit, you can accumulate a pretty good stash faster than you think. Most of us are going to keep these guns for years and the ammo lasts a very long time.
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CoalCrackerAl
Member
I loaded 10mm before i bought the gun, I waited for a deal to pop up one the one i was after. I keep a decent ammo supply on hand for all my calibers i shoot.
Honestly I've never really carried much of an inventory of ammunition. A few boxes of each caliber I own type of thing. With 22 that amounts to quite a few rounds, 9mm as well to a lesser extent. I have finally dipped into the AR world so when ammunition gets back to normal I think I'll work on a healthy supply of 223/556 just to have on hand. No particular reason beyond wanting it for a rainy day, so to speak. I just don't see much need to have more than maybe 100 rounds, give or take, of something like 30-06 or 7mm-08 when I'll only generally shoot a few rounds of that stuff a year. Basically just what I need to verify zero or to zero a new load, plus whatever gets shot at game which isn't much.
To answer the original question, currently I would allocate that money to ammo when prices realign with some level of normalcy to beef up my inventory a little bit in particular as it relates to 223/556.
To answer the original question, currently I would allocate that money to ammo when prices realign with some level of normalcy to beef up my inventory a little bit in particular as it relates to 223/556.
Garandimal
member
bigpower491
Member
I haven't bought ammunition in 35 yrs........
With the exception of 7.62x39....I couldn't load 1440 rds for the $75 per wood crate I was paying
Funny I found a box of 300 Win Mag the other day. The price tag on it. $10.95. Yea, that was back darn near when Jesus was a kid.....
With the exception of 7.62x39....I couldn't load 1440 rds for the $75 per wood crate I was paying
Funny I found a box of 300 Win Mag the other day. The price tag on it. $10.95. Yea, that was back darn near when Jesus was a kid.....
entropy
Member
As an aside, the question was intentionally vague to accommodate each user at their own unique pace and see what they bring to the table.
That said, everybody gave really good answers but this is my favorite one.
Not sure about "guns being cheaper tday than they were in the past." I'm always jealous when I hear about these crates of SKSs for like $12 or whatever.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
Depends on where one lives for sure, and also if we want to forget about what's happened over the last 12 months.
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Dave DeLaurant
Member
This is drifting pretty far from the OP topic, but let me toss some data onto this side-issue:
Let's take 1955 for an arbitrary point of comparison: median household income then was around $5000 in 1955 dollars. We can basically add a zero to convert '55 dollars into that modern prices ($1 vs. $9.81), and divide modern dollars by ten to make backwards comparisons. ( https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1955 )
Here are a few prices from ads in Guns Magazine for November 1955:
( https://gunsmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/G1155.pdf )
Colt Cobra .38 revolver - $55.10 (Warshal)
Browning Superposed O/U shotgun - 'from' $236 (Browning/FN)
High Standard Sentinel .22 revolver - $34.95 (High Standard)
Husqvarna HVA Crown Grade rifle - $162.50 (Tradewinds)
Nosler Partition .308 180 gr bullets - 5.00 per 50
Walther PPK (steel frame, .32 or .380, new in box) - $60.00 (Phoenix International, Thalson)
Webley-Fosbury .455 revolver - $49.95 (Hy Hunter)
Webley Automatic Pistol .455 - $24.95 (Hy Hunter)
Ithaca M37 Featherweight 12 Ga. - $85.95 (new, Ithaca) or $69.95 (Kleins)
Stith scope mount - $29.95 (Stith)
P-14 Enfield, VG-Ex - $24.95 (IFC)
Webley Mk VI .455 - $14.50 (IFC)
Boys Antitank Rifle - $79.95 .55 Cal, .50 BMG conversion kit $39.95 (Southeastern Shooters Supply)
Winchester M70 rifle - $120.95 (Southeastern Shooters Supply)
Colt M1917 .45 ACP revolver, arsenal reworked - $26.95 (Strebe) or $24.95 (Warshal)
Panic/pandemic pricing aside, I don't think you're going to find many of these today by just adding a zero to the 1955 price. Particularly when it comes to collectible milsurps -- you won't see advertised prices like $249.50 for a Webley .455 automatic pistol, or $499.50 for a Webley-Fosbury these days. As chicharrones wisely points out, time and place matter when it comes to pricing.
On the other hand, while labor costs have risen, optics, plastics, metalurgy and manufacturing technologies have all moved forward quite a bit in the past half-century. Modern rifles and scopes are more precise; at the economy end of the scale, a new, modern $400 centerfire hunting rifle is almost certainly going to be better than what you could get for $40 back in '55. Plus if you want stainless steel construction or any design brought out since 1955, no dice. That means no AR15s or Warsaw Pact surplus.
Also, arguably most American households today have more disposible income than in 1955. That was certainly true for my family, and for myself I was still five years away from being born.
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Varminterror
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Certain models, especially those no longer in production, or no longer imported, defy the trend, but when folks look at staple firearms - the same model or equivalent, still in production and still in circulation, generally trend lower prices than their inflated prices would suggest from 20, 30, or 40yrs ago. @Dave DeLaurant offered the same type of math I would have espoused here.
With one exception - the following is objectively not true:
It’s well documented that income has paced behind inflation, AND well documented that American households have greater proportionate recurring bills than in past generations. 1955 would have firmly been in the “two cars per household” era, and only on the cusp of two-income household standards, but would have preceded the common practice of borrowing to purchase these cars, AND obviously predates cable bills, internet service costs, monthly cellular phone expenses, streaming service spending, etc which all fall upon the American households of 2021 - and most importantly, preceded the American boom of consumer personal debt. The common illusion of increased disposable income comes from the fact the average American has ~$20,000 in unsecured, personal debts.
But when you consider the last several decades, firearms typically trend cheaper than their inflated prices would have suggested. Ammo doesn’t seem to trend as such, so buying ammo “today” is typically a better investment than buying a firearm. More hours of work will be required in the future to buy the same ammo, whereas less hours of work will buy the same firearm.
With one exception - the following is objectively not true:
It’s well documented that income has paced behind inflation, AND well documented that American households have greater proportionate recurring bills than in past generations. 1955 would have firmly been in the “two cars per household” era, and only on the cusp of two-income household standards, but would have preceded the common practice of borrowing to purchase these cars, AND obviously predates cable bills, internet service costs, monthly cellular phone expenses, streaming service spending, etc which all fall upon the American households of 2021 - and most importantly, preceded the American boom of consumer personal debt. The common illusion of increased disposable income comes from the fact the average American has ~$20,000 in unsecured, personal debts.
But when you consider the last several decades, firearms typically trend cheaper than their inflated prices would have suggested. Ammo doesn’t seem to trend as such, so buying ammo “today” is typically a better investment than buying a firearm. More hours of work will be required in the future to buy the same ammo, whereas less hours of work will buy the same firearm.
danez71
Member
I make sure I can feed my kids before having more.
How much each kid eats depends on the kid.
How much each kid eats depends on the kid.
Dave DeLaurant
Member
We are in total agreement regarding the costs of newly-manufactured firearms, to the extent I may claim to understand them.
My unstated point was that firearms are durable goods that are bought and resold a number of times; as such, they include a number of quite substantial niches: classic milsurps, custom guns, collectible antiques, machine guns, etc.
Surplus military arm prices go up and down with availability. The CZ-52 handgun was a very rare and very expensive handgun on the US market before the 1990s; then for a few years you could get one for $150, and then once imports were sold off prices gradually climbed to their current value. It's the general trend that after imports dry up, surplus arms gradually increase in relative value -- a few quite dramatically, such as M1 Garands and Carbines in recent years.
Some firearm prices have been heavily influenced by changes in legislation. Pre-GCA'68 war surplus and machine guns, to name two. Restrictions tend to limit supply and drive prices up, assuming grandfathering clauses.
Some prices rise and fall following fads, such as the demand for new single-action revolvers during the heyday of TV westerns, Walther PPKs during the early James Bond era, or the S&W M29 following the film Dirty Harry.
These are just observations from the past 40-odd years. If I really understood the dynamics of the firearms market in all their complexity, I would have made a lot more money on gun trades than I actually have.
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AzShooter1
Member
I normally buy the gun then at least 100 rounds of live factory ammo and then dies. With the Covid - 19 problem affecting ammunition the way it has I now buy guns that I already have ammo for.
I have about 50K rounds of .22 but I have 10 guns so far for it. I just founds a case of 754 rimmed and have no ammo for it. I gave it to my son, a Mosin Nagant. They were real cheap years ago and I had a small collection of 12. I think they were $75 each. Now they are about $300.
I bought an EZ 9 because I have over 1000 rounds at home. The .380 I was looking for had no ammo available. What good is a gun without ammo?
I have about 50K rounds of .22 but I have 10 guns so far for it. I just founds a case of 754 rimmed and have no ammo for it. I gave it to my son, a Mosin Nagant. They were real cheap years ago and I had a small collection of 12. I think they were $75 each. Now they are about $300.
I bought an EZ 9 because I have over 1000 rounds at home. The .380 I was looking for had no ammo available. What good is a gun without ammo?
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