When you use a lie to advance a cause...

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gopguy

gopguy

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You have already lost the argument. Mayor Bloomberg and his discredited Mayors against illegal guns is spreading a new lie to advance their cause.


They have begun running a video on TV showing an American traitor named Adam who has joined Al Qaeda. Now first off you know using a nut who has no idea what he is talking about is not a good idea, but Bloomberg runs with it anyways. Naturally the anti-gun media is running with the lie too.

Adam the terrorist claims you can go to a gun show and buy machine guns without a background check and is urging terrorists to do so.

Adam Gadahn is an bona fide idiot, nut job and what he is saying is not true. Bloomberg knows it is not true but is using a lie to advance his cause and raise funds. To buy a machine gun you have to undergo a Federal background check, get local law enforcement to sign off on the purchase, pay a $200 tax to the Federal Government. The BATFE on average take 90 days to decide on if they will allow the purchase. Also since 1986 no new machine guns have been made for the civilian market, so prices are out of the reach of most Americans.



What does a legal, full auto AKM go for these days. I looked when this subject came up in a recent discussion I had among friends.

The cheapest AKM I could find for sale at that time was $15,500. A vintage Thompson Submachine gun made by Colt in the 1920s will cost you over $35K. I know this as a friend who had one recently sold his for that. Add all the above and you can see why machine gun ownership is rare.




To my knowledge since 1934 only one legally owned machine gun has been used in a crime and that was by a police officer to kill his wife.



Fact to remember, Full Auto class III firearms are heavily regulated and have been since 1934.


Remember when you see the Bloomberg Mayors against guns ad, these are people willing to lie to you to advance an agenda to disarm all Americans. Ask yourself why they don't trust you with a gun.




So when family or friends bring this up, you know the truth set them straight that they have been lied to. Tell them not to spread or believe the lie. Tell the truth and help protect your gun rights.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/al-qaeda-video-buy-automatic-weapons-start-shooting/story?id=13704264
 
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and I quote from an earlier thread on THR about this "I must be going to the wrong gun shows" I still get a laugh out of this
 
Being a billionaire you can say anything, do anything and be labeled eccentric. Now if you're in my tax bracket you are just plain crazy and probably be locked up for your own safety. I don't impress easily and he plus a few others just don't meet the "ignore" label but with their money we need to watch them.
 
What was said was:
"Let's take America as an example. America is absolutely awash with easily obtainable firearms. You can go down to a gun show at the local convention center and come away with a fully automatic assault rifle, without a background check, and most likely without having to show an identification card. So what are you waiting for?"

It's not true that "a fully automatic assault rifle" can be obtained at a gun show. But it would be very easy for a terrorist to obtain a semi-auto rifle or pistol, if not from the dealers inside the gun show, then from the many who legally sell their guns in the parking lot. I've seen these sales (not to terrorists as far as I know...but it's possible). No questions. Hand over the cash and I'll hand over the gun.
 
Most anti-gun folks I know (friends and family *sigh*) don't know or care about the distinction between semi and full auto... they just know it sounds more deadly if it's "automatic" and they hear "killing machine" regardless of the mechanical or legal nuance.
 
Six, thanks I forgot about the Shou Chou Ho case... Still with 200K registered Machine guns since 1934 the track record of machine gun owners has been pretty good when compared with other segments of American society.
 
It's notoriously hard for Westerners to infiltrate al Qaeda. Suppose, just suppose, that Adam Gadahn is a "plant" working for our side. Just sayin'. Anything he says, therefore, would ultimately be for the purpose of establishing his bona fides with them (who have only a superficial knowledge of American society). The objective truth doesn't matter in any of this. Who cares whether full automatics are, or are not, available unregulated at gun shows? Semiautomatics surely are, and that was the main drift of his statement. Anyway, all sides of the gun debate should stay far away from this, for the reason I stated.
 
Anyway, all sides of the gun debate should stay far away from this, for the reason I stated
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.

The people who want to limit guns will not stay away from it. They will use it as much as they can. We, as gun owners should not stay away from for this reason. We need to counter their lies at every turn. If we stay away and let them repeat the mis-information at every turn, soon people tend to believe what they are saying.
 
Al Qaeda is so stupid. They don't realize that Adam Gadahn is an Israeli Operative and is run by the CIA.
 
gopguy said:
Still with 200K registered Machine guns since 1934 the track record of machine gun owners has been pretty good when compared with other segments of American society.
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It is true that when you limit something to primarily the wealthy in society you will see less problems with it.
Not really an argument I would support though.


For the same reason you saw the most problems with "Saturday Night Specials" stemming from a racist term and originally used to describe handguns cheap enough that poor blacks could afford them, and later extended to cheap handguns the poor in general could afford.
Most robberies and shootings in the poor neighborhoods would be done with guns stolen in the poor neighborhoods, and those guns were primarily very inexpensive guns the people who had them stolen could afford.
Since most robberies and shootings are done in poor neighborhoods this means a majority of crime was committed by such guns.

Most violent crime is financially motivated.
Most of the crime committed by more educated or financially secure individuals is white collar in nature. Instead of robbing the local liquor store for a couple hundred bucks at gunpoint and facing long prison sentences they are using financial methods to steal tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars (or many times more if you consider Wall Street type crooks), and typically get light sentences and are housed with non-violent offenders.
This means the people from the income bracket typically buying and using legal machineguns are more likely to swindle you out of your home or life savings than use a gun to take your wallet or empty the cash register.



The term 'wealthy' is highly subjective, most people within an income range see other people in a higher one and don't really consider themselves wealthy as clearly plenty of other people have far more.
But most of the violent crime in society is committed by people or the children of people with very low incomes.
These are not the people a CLEO is likely to sign off for, the people that can afford (or have the financial discipline to save up for, or have good credit, etc) to purchase machineguns, or feed such firearms. In fact they are typically people that do not have firearm collections in general.


NICs is performed on anyone purchasing firearms at an FFL, so it is not the background check that used to be unique to NFA firearms either. No the primary difference is the financial status of the people who own machineguns.
People with more to lose and clearly doing better, and so less apt to break the law, and people that when they do turn to financially motivated crimes tend to steal a lot more in white collar methods than those misusing firearms.
Since most firearms used in violent crime are stolen, it also has a lot to do with the fact that people who can afford legal machineguns live around fewer burglars and thieves in nicer neighborhoods.


Wealthy people are also not the type of people a government fears, they are generally benefiting from the status quo enough to not risk everything in open hostility. Much less likely to be involved in rebellions or riots. So governments care less about restricting them than restricting someone that might actually take up arms.
So governments around the world favor laws that keep the more effective firearms out of the hands of the lower classes.




So whenever you tout how great the track record for legal machineguns is, what you are really doing is touting how great artificial class based restrictions are.
Which certainly is contrary to typically promoted American values of freedom and equality.
 
It is true that when you limit something to primarily the wealthy in society you will see less problems with it.
Not really an argument I would support though.
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I would be willing to bet that if we did a study of that statement you would find it isn't true at all. The wealthy commit crimes just like the poor. The only thing that changes is the motive. I suspect the real reason you see less problems is there are much fewer wealthy people and they generally have the resources to get OUT of trouble when they do get in it.
 
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jon_in_wv said:
I would be willing to bet that if we did a study of that statement you would find it isn't true at all. The wealthy commit crimes just like the poor. The only thing that changes is the motive. I suspect the real reason you see less problems is there are much fewer wealthy people and they generally have the resources to get OUT of trouble when they do get in it.
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This is not only plausible, but provable based on crime statistics. Compare ratios of convictions to arrests between low income and high income.
 
The point of news stories like this is to fool the people that really have no clue about the subject. Once the story is presented on the news, and people hear about it, it has become fact, plain and simple.
The news never comes on and says "Hey, you know that story we told you about how easy it is to get guns? Well, it was all bs."

The nut job giving the story is just a cheap way for the media to get the misleading information out.

I live by DC, and a couple of weeks ago now, some guy was arrested for trespassing in Arlington Cemetery after dark.
What did the local media do? Started reporting that there were several bombs and mysterious packages, and that said bombs and packages had been discovered. They also reported that the local bomb squad was going to detonate one of these packages that they found.
Absolutely 0% of that turned out to be remotely true. There were no bombs, of any kind, nor where there even ANY suspicious packages. But that's not the point. The point is, later that day, people were talking about the event as if actually happened. It's now a matter of fact in their minds. They didn't get all of the story, and they never questioned even a single sentence as it was being broadcast.
 
Al Qaeda is so stupid. They don't realize that Adam Gadahn is an Israeli Operative and is run by the CIA.
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The agency is concerned that if this leak gets into the wrong hands his life will be at risk. It is in all our interests to ensure that this information is not widely spread on various internet forums that could be seen by Jihadist spies. Also, refrain from posting similar comments to any news articles on Gadahn that may appear on AP, UPI, Reuters, NY Times or similar web sites.
 
people always mention no new machine guns are being made etc


but cant you get a full-auto sear (NFA obviously) and make a modern AR full auto etc? so its not like you need to buy an old gun to get a full auto.....i saw a nice looking short barrel SMG for sale for $1000 plus tax and NFA fee on a local forum - from a dealer....so they can be had much cheaper than 15k
 
Most violent crime is financially motivated
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I'm not so sure on that - sexual assaults and rapes are not about money Most thefts are related to drug use

Currently, racial crimes are growing at a rapid rate as seen by the flash mob incidents in various large cities
 
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