Where to get some training?

[Nightcrawler]

I'd like to take a rifle training class some day. Doubt I could do it this year, but next year I might.

I'd prefer something that focuses on long-ranged rifle use. However, I'm not talking about "tactical" rifle courses that focus on police sniper work.

I want to get good with iron sights. As I've said, my eventual goal is to be able to hit a target at 600 yards with iron sights.

So where can I go to get some training that focuses on long raged rifle shooting, preferably with irons? Some scoped work might be okay, but I'd prefer to focus on iron sight use.

Thunder Ranch's "Old Rifle" course sounds about perfect. It's set up for iron sighted rifle use, at ranges all the way out to 700 and 800 yards. It's designed for old school rifles, like the Garand, Mauser, Trapdoor, etc, so I'd have to use a Garand instead of a FAL, but that's cool, and the principles are the same.

But Thunder Ranch is closing, aparently.

So what else is there?

 

[echo3mike]

Check with the NRA about Highpower clinics in your AO. Highpower rifle competition is an outstanding way to learn about and practice the finer aspects of rifle marksmanship, and is shot with iron sights at 200, 300, and 600 yds.

The added benefits are that it's usually pretty cheap compared to shooting schools and it'll qualify you for a portion of the requirments fror an M1 Garand purchase from CMP if you're interested.

S.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Given the limited number of ranges in my area (there's two, if that) and the fact they're unusable usually between November and March, I'd be durn suprised if there were any such matches in Upper Michigan.

However, competing in a match may provide good practice, but I was looking for some instruction to go along with it. While I'm quite good at learning on my own, given appropriate materials and time, it's nice to have competent teachers around to correct any mistakes I may be making before they become chronic bad habits.

I'm hardly new to rifle shooting, but taking a class will reinforce fundamentals and can only help.

 

[Cosmoline]

Nightcrawler--I'm looking for the same thing. Esp. with iron sights at variable ranges from five meters to three hundred. There's a great deal you can do with a rifle, but I'm not sure I know how.

 

[Jeff White]

Nightcrawler,

Have you checked into the competition programs through the MI ARNG? While you would be shooting M16s or M14s, the principles are the same. It would be free training for you.

Jeff

 

[Steve Smith]

Did none of the links I listed help you?

 

[El Tejon]

Night, IME both Gunsite and TR's General Purpose Rifle classes are fantastic.

However, as an intro, I second echo's suggestion. My clubs host several "High Power" clinics throughout the year with training in ARs, M14s and M1s. Students bring all kinds of goofy stuff to be cool or different (sort of like Gambian rats) and get it sorted out in class. Cost is usually minimal. I believe our last class was $40 for a weekend class--range safety, competition rules, positions, weapon care, sighting and shooting.

 

[Nightcrawler]

All of the high-power rifle competitions are in lower Michigan, which is 6+ hours away from here. Getting to Illionis means driving all the way through Wisconsin first, too.

I'm unsure how having my butt handed to me in a competition is going to provide much in the way of constructive training. Yes, it'll be practice, but it'll be my very first time shooting at anything that far away.

What I had in mind more is if anybody could recommend a RIFLE CLASS at any of the accredited schools. I should have specified that.

I can send rounds downrange on my own, I don't need a competition to do that.

Also, where can I get some targets that simulate a human silouette at 400, 500, 600 yards on a 100 or 200 yard range? That will have to work for now.

 

[Jeff White]

Nightcrawler,

I'm unsure how having my butt handed to me in a competition is going to provide much in the way of constructive training. Yes, it'll be practice, but it'll be my very first time shooting at anything that far away.

The Guard teams practice. In fact you may even be able to form your own unit team, get weapons and ammunition and range time supplied to you. See your unit marksmanship coordinator. Every unit should have one appointed. If yours doesn't, your Readiness NCO should be able to put you in contact with your State Marksmanship Coordinator. There is all kinds of instruction and clinics available to competitive shooters in the Guard. No one is suggesting you go anywhere and get your but handed to you in a match.

Jeff

 

[Nightcrawler]

I'll check tomorrow, but I don't think we have a marksmanship coordinator, at least not at the company level. Our range is a 25 meter indoor range, and it's the only one the Guards use around here.

The outdoor range is way down in Grayling.

I know the Michigan Guard has a Biathalon team, but I can't ski worth a durn.

Forming our own team...that would be interesting, wouldn't it?

We have a very hard time getting ammunition. I was supposed to fire a SAW familiarization range last year at Grayling. They didn't have any belted 5.56mm available, so the range was cancelled.

The lack of access to an outdoor range would be the biggest problem, though.

I'm working at the Armory tomorrow. I'll ask around, but with the only actual rifle range being seven hours away, I don't think the Western Upper Peninsula units have much opportunity to compete in MIARNG rifle competition.

But we're diverting further and further from my original question. Can anybody recommend rifle courses, at accredited schools, that emphasize iron sighted shooting at ranges beyond 400 yards? I'll even take a 0-400 yard course first, to prep me, if I could find one that didn't demand use of a scoped rifle. Do you HAVE to take a scope to general rifle classes at Guniste or Thunder Ranch?

When is Thunder Ranch supposed to be closing?

 

[Jeff White]

I know that Michigan fields a team in all of the different match categories. Rifle, pistol (highpower, bullseye) and the various combat matches, (rifle, pistol, machine gun). There is a seperate allocation for ammunition used in competition and training for competition. Most states encourage unit teams and have a shoot off match (usually called the Adjutant General's Match) to determine who represents the State in the Wilson Matches held every year at Cp Robinson in North Little Rock, AR.

A lot of units look at competition as too much trouble and don't bother with it. Back in the good old days (1980s) there was even money to pay you to practice and shoot. Now most states can't afford the ADSW (active duty for special work) for that purpose, but they still resource the units with ammunition. You may have to get out and find yourself a place to practice and do your own legwork for a unit team, but I think you'd find it worthwhile. Each State has a Small Arms Training Team that would be available to provide instruction. These folks are usually under utilized and would probably jump at the chance to come up and provide some training.

HTH

Jeff

 

[El Tejon]

Night,

TR is closing in early '05.

You may not need a scope, but it's a smart idea. I shot an iron-sighted M14 clone at GPR at TR a couple of months ago.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Why is Thunder Ranch closing? They have a huge facility down there.

Have they been losing money?

 

[El Tejon]

Night, no, of course not. Clint is opening a new skul in Eastern Oreygun for several reasons. You can read about it in my thread on my review of GPR and there have been past discussions.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

OPS is a good place to take courses from, and they're reasonably inexpensive. Andy Stanford is someone i'd trust with my life.

 

[MolonLabe416]

You might check with Randy Cain at Cumberland Tactics.

www.randycain.com

He doesn't list an iron sight course, but I know that he will hold one if you can get 10 people to participate. He does special classes frequently at the request of shooters. He is an outstanding instructor. I've taken about half a dozen classes from him. He generally schedules over a three day weekend, Fri, Sat, Sun, or Sat, Sun, Mon so you only lose one day of work plus travel time. But if you host, no travel required. You would have to find a suitable venue. All you really need is some place rural with a safe backstop. The range/land owner generally gets about $10 per day per student, so it'd be a quick $300 for a farmer.

Also, as I mentioned in a previous reply, you can take the 270 at Gunsite with irons. A gentleman in my class did. But, if you could fill an iron-sight only class I think you'd get a better overall experience.

Good luck.

 

[Steve Smith]

I know you are asking about schools, but I want to try to answer your question about how you can learn anythig while having your butt handed to you.

Ok, I don;t know the REASON for the answer...I admit it. But I swear you will learn tons. I have learned so much from shooting matches, and everyone I know has as well. No, its not a class, but it might as well be. I don't know if its some sort of osmosis or what, but you learn a lot!

 

[ACP230]

I second what Steve said.

Additionally, the guys who organize matches have usually been in the game for years. They teach by example, but have also been known to answer questions.

 

[El Tejon]

Learn by doing!

 

[duckfoot]

Email Sully or check out his site at http://www.defensive-edge.net/ and see if you can get in on one of his rifle courses. Took a demo course in Ill. and learned more about how to employ a rifle in three hours than in the first three years in the Marines.

Just my .02 on a school if you want to spend money, but if you can make it down to Raleigh NC we can go to a Bunter Match together, now that I'm back into the HP game and get you nice and hooked.

ALL taken with salt.

 

[sully]

duckfoot,

Thank you for the nice mention. We had a great time in Illinois. If you haven't figured out by now, carbine rifle is a passion of mine and I really enjoy teaching it. If anyone is interested we will be doing a 2-day AR15/M16 Rifle Armorer course July-31 & Aug-1, and a 2-day intensive carbine user course on Aug-2 & 3. Both courses will be at Yeagers and Companies facilities near Clarksville TN, their website is www.warriormindset.com .

Stay Safe,
Sully
Chief Instructor
www.thedefensiveedge.com