Wheres it all going

[Gunther]

If we are to believe the press releases, Winchester/Olin, Remington,and Federal/ATK are all running 24/7 cranking out 9mm, 45ACP, 223,& 308. If this is true where is it at? THR has shown Wal-Marts across the country are empty, with their buying power they should be the main buyer of this ammo after Uncle Sam and Police Supply houses. Cabelas has ammo some of the time, but the Hamburg PA store is wiped out on alot of ammo and reloading supplies. My police agency has had no problem getting a huge order of pistol ammo directly from Win/Olin recently. I don't wear a tin foil hat or see bigfoot when Im deer hunting but its been 3 months since the local Wal-marts had ammo and the internet has dried up. Gunshows are hit and miss at best. Could the feds be playing games with supply? Threatening ammo companies with no new federal orders after the new legislation comes out banning or serializing ammo? Just the threat could slow supply down. I know hoarding is going on, but at some point, and here we are 90 days in, you would think supply would at least start to catch up with demand. Is there anyone in the industry or fellow LEO's who are seeing anything that can verify or dispute my theories? While I await your answers I'll go put my tin foil hat back on and assume the fetal position:banghead:

 

[ants]

Shooters are buying up and speculating. Our recent demand for ammo far exceeds the capacity to produce.

Before the recent surge in 'stocking up', the National Shooting Sports Foundation reported that commercial ammo sales (you and me as shooters, not police or military) consumed over 30 billion rounds of ammunition per year. Thats B in the Billion. Even the US military only uses 10 billion. A wave of panic buying like we currently experience can easily soak the supply line dry.

We call it panic buying, but I believe there is a lot of dirty speculating also. People who intend to resell at huge profit when the supposed future bans are imposed.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

"Shooters are buying up and speculating. Our recent demand for ammo far exceeds the capacity to produce."

Source please

"Even the US military only uses 10 billion."

Again, source please.

There is no way under the sun that we are buying faster than the armed forces fired the stuff off in WWII, Korea, or Viet Nam. When I spoke to a Remington Ammo product manager yesterday, he agreed. He also "claimed" to be running 3 shifts, yet said that a few months ago they had temp scab workers and don't now. I was also told that they have stopped producing rimfire ammo altogether pending a way to fix the crap they've been putting out.

 

[kirklandkie]

he said they aren't producing rimfire ammunition right now? i bought two bricks of remington .22 yesterday....

-kirk

 

[ThrottleJockey]

my goodness, they must have just made it sunday then!!! No, according to the product manager at remington ammunition in Arkansas, they are not currently producing rimfire ammo.

 

[Rockwell1]

Before the recent surge in 'stocking up', the National Shooting Sports Foundation reported that commercial ammo sales (you and me as shooters, not police or military) consumed over 30 billion rounds of ammunition per year.

He cited his source in his post.

There is no way under the sun that we are buying faster than the armed forces fired the stuff off in WWII, Korea, or Viet Nam

No one said any thing about Korea or Viet Nam. The military to the best of my knowlege uses primarily .223 and 9mm plus some .308 , .45 ACP and .50.

Civilians can choose from .22,.25 ,32,.380 9X18 .40S&W .45 LC and God only knows what else. Why is it so hard to believe that we account for 3X more ammo than the military?

 

[ThrottleJockey]

"Shooters are buying up and speculating. Our recent demand for ammo far exceeds the capacity to produce."

No source for this.

"the National Shooting Sports Foundation reported that commercial ammo sales (you and me as shooters, not police or military) consumed over 30 billion rounds of ammunition per year."

Yes, source here.


"Even the US military only uses 10 billion."

Again, no source.

 

[Rockwell1]

I took it to mean the National Shooting Sports Foundation was the source for all the little factoids

 

[ssbn731g]

I know that Black Hills Ammunition is working close to 60 hour work weeks and they are not meeting their orders. They expect to have a big lull in 2 years, same as when Bubba took office

 

[Carl]

Obama has been the best guns and ammo salesman since Clinton. If they're looking for a way to create jobs, they should open more ammo plants.

 

[Guy de Loimbard]

The shelves at our local stores up here would seem to support the statement about shooters speculating and buying it all up. I managed to hit up wal-mart at just the right time Sunday night and scored four Federal .22 bulk packs. A friend of mine from the range was there the same day 6 hours earlier and they had none. The six bricks that were left when I got done sold monday morning. The only centerfire pistol ammo still in stock was .25 acp and .357 sig.

 

[SaxonPig]

Every gun show I have attended since November has featured folks with hand-trucks loading up multiple cases of ammo. I see people buying and buying.

The shortage is due to demand, no doubt about about. Fears of legislation with a Socialist, anti-gun president backed by a Democrat Congress and fears of a coming civil war are driving gun and ammo sales.

No saying how long it will last.

 

[Bezoar]

Dont forget the us government is still supplying our 'allies" in afghanistan and iraq with thousands of tons of free weapons and ammunition. Most all in the calibers we cant find locally at walmart...

And dont forget we still GIVE money to other countries, like isreal, to buy our weapons and ammunition to use in their own campaigns.

 

[mbt2001]

OK... We know that the VAST majority of gun owners are not SHTF / preparedness people nor are they activists nor do they go shooting all that regularly. Most of them have a box or two for each gun MAYBE.

So let's just say that is about 80% of the gun owners, roughly 50 - 80million people. If they all went out and bought 4 boxes that would be for every gun, say they owned 3 that would be a HUGE amount of bullets (approx 1B rnds). I know for a fact that they are buying more than that, as my old man and a few of my friends are like the above "gun owners" and they have all recently purchased a few thousand rounds of whatever and some extra guns too.

So, there you go. That is a TON of production. Not to mention we are at war on two fronts and Law Enforcement and others MUST be thinking something similar to what we are, maybe they are stocking up too.

It fits.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

I buy roughly... 6 boxes self defense carry ammo, 10 boxes of range/alternate carry ammo, 12 boxes each of 20 gauge and 12 gauge every 4 months.

That is enough to fill one box, I fill three boxes per year and shoot most of it keeping about 25% aside as a pernament stockpile. The orders are constant, steady and non varying over time.

Panicking? Hardly.

 

[oldgold]

It's simple. The Mexican drug cartels are buying it all up to go with all those full auto weapons they buy at border gun shows.

 

[Rockwell1]

An Example

I remember reading that 4 million rounds of .22 are produced in this country every day.

I'd be willing to bet that if you take every weapon in this country that shoots .22 that's not one round per gun.

 

[crazy-mp]

The military to the best of my knowlege uses primarily .223 and 9mm plus some .308 , .45 ACP and .50.

You forgot about the 12 ga.

*The military also uses some 300 Win Mag and 338 Laupa*

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

I'm betting Walmart is a larger buyer than the Feds.

Too bad they don't get first dibs based on volume.

 

[mrokern]

I live very close to Streichers main showroom. They got hundreds of boxes of 9mm in stock about a week ago. It was all gone within 4 days, and that's without advertising.

I personally watched two different people walk in and buy over 50 boxes each. The shortage is due to demand.

-Mark

 

[ssbn731g]

I agree, it is by demand, but that demand is inspired by Obama's threat

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

I just hope that when the middle east situation ends Lake City keeps producing .223 at current levels to get the price to $150 or less a case (and after the panic subsides, of course...a few cracked foundations will convince folks they have enough)

 

[blitzen]

I for one have a 500 round minimum for every rifle, pistol or combination there of that I own. I will only shoot up what I have in excess of that and it ticks me off that I have had to cut down on the amount of shooting I usually do.
When I am 100 years old and on my death bed I will dip into my reserves and shoot up my last 500 rounds for each weapon or just give it to my like minded shootin buddies. Hell of a 100th birthday party, you're all invited.
Figure if I need more than what I have, there will be plenty lying around. The first little bit might be expensive but the rest will be for free!

 

[Just Jim]

Escalation, you stock up and the government stocks up cause you stocked up Down the road ammo should be real cheap but who will have the money to buy it the way this government is running things

jj

 

[Suicide*Ride]

Talk about a panic!

I remember during the Y2K scare mid Dec. 1999, when we got a 42ft. trailer full of mil. surplus (russian) 7.62x39mm in steel cans (660rds. per can) BOL said 79,000lbs

It rolled up @ 9am, & was MT 27 hrs. later!! Half was promised before it arrived & the rest sold by WOM. That was panic buying!

It took roughly 6 months before ammunition was readily available again, but it was available again.

I'd bet if THR members had a "meet & greet" in your area & you needed something (primers, powder, etc.), a fellow member might/would/could help. Nice being a member of the greatest forum on the web!

Why not just kick back, relax, & wait....