Which Boberg XR9?
- Thread starter ABBOBERG
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I'd leave the rail on. There are some people out there that simply must have one, lots of people out there who don't care, and a small percentage of people who won't own a railed gun. I'm willing to wager that there are more people who would buy the gun because it has one than there are people who would refuse to buy the gun because it has one.
If you sell scads of them, make a model without the rail and get everyone's $$$.
Mike
If you sell scads of them, make a model without the rail and get everyone's $$$.
Mike
old_ironsights
Member
There are a hellva lot of other questions to be asked before asking "which one."
Does it actually work...what's the tonnage...ya know, little questions like those?
Does it actually work...what's the tonnage...ya know, little questions like those?
ABBOBERG
Member
ABBOBERG
Member
The original 9mm design used gas-delay, had a fixed barrel, and was .2" shorter.
Slide acceleration was extremely severe and would sometimes separate the bullet from the case on non-crimped aluminum-cased ammunition.
The very first pull-back mechanism was developed using the rimmed.32 ACP ammuntion. Since the cartridge is pulled with full recoil force from the back of the magazine, there was never any hint of "rimlock". This caliber was abandoned because other manufacturers were coming out with very small pistols in 9mm, such as Rohrbaugh.
I carved a .44 magnum version out of wood - it reminds me of an Automag, only it is about 3" shorter for the same barrel length. I look forward to building this some day.
This mechanism used in a Bull-pup would be the ultimate in shortness. That is why the patent was written broadly to cover "firearms".
VanEasten
Member
I like that you've come out with something new and different. I'll consider one if it's not too expensive. Hopefully, you can offer it at prices similar to a Kahr.
ABBOBERG
Member
I know you suggested the full-size XR9, but all I have right now is the XR9 "Micro" compared to the Kel-tec P3AT.
http://www.bobergengineering.com/which_one.htm
ABBOBERG
Member
Based on the poll results, I have started building the XR9 Shorty.
old_ironsights
Member
Have you comparison photographs or drawings of your 'full size', 'shorty' and 'micro'?
ABBOBERG
Member
This is a good idea - I will get to it this week.
MSRP is still pending results of the drawings out for quotations. Price will be announced on the website
VA27
Member
I like the Micro and the Shorty.
Build the Micro in 5.7X28 (with a threaded Shorty barrel for a suppressor) and I'll take one of those, too.
Build the Micro in 5.7X28 (with a threaded Shorty barrel for a suppressor) and I'll take one of those, too.
ABBOBERG
Member
I guess I'm comming a little late to the game, but as someone who has been through almost a dozen guns trying to find the perfect CCW, I'd just like to add my 2 cents.
First off, kuidos for comming out with a pistol design that is both inovative and useful to the general public (as opposed to only the military/LE); it seems that many manufacturers regulate civilian sales to an afterthought. With regards to your pistol, I have two questions:
What kind of magazines does it use? Does the loading mechanism require the use of a propritary magazine, or can it use standard, existing magazines?
Do you have any plans to make a double stack version? This would allow you to have a relatively high capacity while keeping the grip relatively short. In a CCW, the part that is most likely to print is the pistol grip, so keeping that as short as possible would be ideal, and a double stack design allows for this.
FYI, I voted for the longer barreled pistol. When it comes to a CCW, the easiest part to conceal is the front/barrel, and considering that the OAL of the XR9 is only 5" anyway, the loss of velocity is not worth the trade off in concealability. The only way it would make sense is if you're going after the pocket carry crowd, which means you would have to compete with either the P3AT or the Rohrbaugh. In any case, I'm looking forward to seeing the XR9 in production!
First off, kuidos for comming out with a pistol design that is both inovative and useful to the general public (as opposed to only the military/LE); it seems that many manufacturers regulate civilian sales to an afterthought. With regards to your pistol, I have two questions:
What kind of magazines does it use? Does the loading mechanism require the use of a propritary magazine, or can it use standard, existing magazines?
Do you have any plans to make a double stack version? This would allow you to have a relatively high capacity while keeping the grip relatively short. In a CCW, the part that is most likely to print is the pistol grip, so keeping that as short as possible would be ideal, and a double stack design allows for this.
FYI, I voted for the longer barreled pistol. When it comes to a CCW, the easiest part to conceal is the front/barrel, and considering that the OAL of the XR9 is only 5" anyway, the loss of velocity is not worth the trade off in concealability. The only way it would make sense is if you're going after the pocket carry crowd, which means you would have to compete with either the P3AT or the Rohrbaugh. In any case, I'm looking forward to seeing the XR9 in production!
ABBOBERG
Member
The Boberg XR9 uses a unique rear-feeding magazine. Existing magazines have the opening on the wrong side.
Concepts for a double-stack magazine are in the patent, although one has not been built yet. The plan would be to incorporate the double-stack into a polymer frame, so the gun doesn't get too thick.
I totally agree with you - 9mm ammo was intended for 4"+ barrels. Even the so-called "short-barrel" ammo performs a lot better in the longer barrels.
I hope I won't be competing directly against .380s. The 9mm is much more powerful than the .380. As far as competing with Rohrbaugh - I'll take that as a compliment!
Kind of Blued
Member
I'm extremely excited about this. I'm a little late to add any input here, but my logic goes as such:
The shorty version would be benefited with very snag-resistant miniscule sights, think "backup iron sights". A deal with Crimson Trace or a factory-installed integral laser would make it one of the best carry guns I could imagine, assuming reliability.
Again, can't wait to hear MSRP and start saving some money!
The shorty version would be benefited with very snag-resistant miniscule sights, think "backup iron sights". A deal with Crimson Trace or a factory-installed integral laser would make it one of the best carry guns I could imagine, assuming reliability.
Again, can't wait to hear MSRP and start saving some money!
ABBOBERG
Member
My original goal was the 500-1000 category, but with Rorhbaugh at 1200, and my gun has more parts, the likelihood will be that it will be in the third price category. I have been working very hard to simplify the design, and at the same time, the full-sized XR9 is undergoing durability testing.
The full-sized XR9 has space for a laser under the barrel, the Shorty has no such space. You are probably correct in that it will take a deal with CTC to get a laser on the Shorty.
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Sylvan-Forge
Member
Looking forward to shooting one of these .. looks neat!
Input (FWIW):
Dovetail sights .. notable example: Heinie Serrated.
(Including the shorty)
Input (FWIW):
Dovetail sights .. notable example: Heinie Serrated.
(Including the shorty)
Prices Please
That would tell us alot also. Personally for a ccw, the longer version is super, BUT I would like to see it in polymer instead of all steel. Certainly would be less in price and for carry, absolutely ideal. Like the dovetailed sites to. everything looks good.
realibility over price has to be be priority #1, and not with some note in the manual that "this gun olny shoots yadda yadda type ammo. It needs to be ammo friendly.
Seen just to many of these little compact guns that JUST are not reliable. That is the break or make deal for your little gun. Shooters will get a real feel for its reliability fast and if it doesn't work, the reputation will spread.
You don't have to be the smallest to get ur share of the market IMO. The 9mm is not pocket change to shoot, so it has to be comfortable, small and uncontrolable is no good either. Rohrbaughs seem to sell at a grand in price, so again IMO take it slow, do it right and the gun will then take care of itself out on the market. Good luck.. If you need beta testers, I am available at NO CHARGE.
That would tell us alot also. Personally for a ccw, the longer version is super, BUT I would like to see it in polymer instead of all steel. Certainly would be less in price and for carry, absolutely ideal. Like the dovetailed sites to. everything looks good.
realibility over price has to be be priority #1, and not with some note in the manual that "this gun olny shoots yadda yadda type ammo. It needs to be ammo friendly.
Seen just to many of these little compact guns that JUST are not reliable. That is the break or make deal for your little gun. Shooters will get a real feel for its reliability fast and if it doesn't work, the reputation will spread.
You don't have to be the smallest to get ur share of the market IMO. The 9mm is not pocket change to shoot, so it has to be comfortable, small and uncontrolable is no good either. Rohrbaughs seem to sell at a grand in price, so again IMO take it slow, do it right and the gun will then take care of itself out on the market. Good luck.. If you need beta testers, I am available at NO CHARGE.
Wes Janson
Member
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Please, ignore about half of the things said above. Combine all of the suggestions in this thread together and you'll be left without anything...
Some buyers will prefer a heavier pistol, to mitigate recoil. Others will want it as light as possible. Ideally, offering versions both in steel and aluminum would satisfy everyone, but first and foremost should be reliability and durability.
Lots of customers want .40 or .45. Lots of customers will choose a carry weapon based solely on the size of the hole in the front. Please don't rule out further calibers down the road, as the demand is certainly there.
Sights might be better left off of the Micro, but included on the Standard.
As far as the size...offer both. Offer all of them. Make it small and reliable, and people will buy it. I can attest first-hand that, at least where I'm at, Rohrbaughs sell amazingly well considering they cost close to $1500. If you could get MSRP below $1000, the market would open up tremendously, but then the problem would be producing enough supply.
Some buyers will prefer a heavier pistol, to mitigate recoil. Others will want it as light as possible. Ideally, offering versions both in steel and aluminum would satisfy everyone, but first and foremost should be reliability and durability.
Lots of customers want .40 or .45. Lots of customers will choose a carry weapon based solely on the size of the hole in the front. Please don't rule out further calibers down the road, as the demand is certainly there.
Sights might be better left off of the Micro, but included on the Standard.
As far as the size...offer both. Offer all of them. Make it small and reliable, and people will buy it. I can attest first-hand that, at least where I'm at, Rohrbaughs sell amazingly well considering they cost close to $1500. If you could get MSRP below $1000, the market would open up tremendously, but then the problem would be producing enough supply.
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