Which combat rifle sighting system?

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SRM, what exactly are you wanting to do with this thing? If you want a rifle that will do "everything", you either have to hang 40 pounds of crap off it or nothing at all. All that rail real estate is there to give you options, so you can configure the rifle for your needs.

If you want to stake your life on this rifle, I would go for the flip up irons and reflex sight. I run an EOTech/BUIS combo on my AR, and I love it. Then practice practice practice with both the irons and the optics.

If you want to take down gophers, coyotes, and paper targets, maybe the magnified optic is the best choice for you, and you can leave the BUIS.

Until somebody starts making a magnified optic that tickles your fancy AND has a long eye relief, it sounds like you're out of luck there if you really have your heart set on BUIS.

As a last minute thought, if you put a magnified optic using a quick release mount, you can still take it off and get "minute of bad guy" accuracy at close ranges by using a proper and well practiced cheek weld (nose touching the charging handle!) and the front sight post.
 
With the EOTechs 1 min. dot there is really not much to miss at 100-200 yd regarding coyotes or other such varmint and bigger ones well past that, I'd go out and give it a try.
 
What is the rifle being used for that requires optics?

The irons being what they are on an AR provide a good base to build on. Having quality irons helps because optics of any sort really aren't necessary, even if they are preferred. That is one reason I still haven't scoped my M1A. The irons do just about anything I need from them so I don't feel seriously handicapped without a scope. I do have an ARMS mount inbound and will work on having optics on it by this fall because I want to use it as my hunting rifle.

On an M4, I don't see a need for anything other than a reflex/red dot sight. I have a Kobra on an AK and find the set up allows enough precision to score hits reliably out to 250 to 300 yards. Despite what the Kool Aid drinkers might tell you, your M4 isn't going to be effective any farther than that, even if you have a magnified optic on it. I'd go with the Aimpoint or EOTech.

That said, I am a huge fan of the ACOGs. It is the only piece of issued gear I never saw a Marine break. They are so durable and reliable my unit didn't even issue iron sights with the rifle--M16A4, Trijicon ACOG (RCO), Grip Pod, PEQ-2, 3-battery Surefire, and a 3-point sling--no rear sight to be found. The 4x RCOs do have really short eye-relief, which is why no rear sight could be fitted to the rifle with it mounted. It was short enough that I got thumped on the eyebrow with it on a regular basis. Some of the other models have much more eye relief, some approaching 4 inches by factory literature, as well as less magnification--neither of which I think is a bad thing in your case. If you really want magnification, a 2 to 3.5x ACOG or Compact ACOG is about the best thing going. There is a reason the Marines call the RCO the greatest increase in firepower available to the Marine since the inception of the M1 Garand.
 
I'm creating my own experiment testing irons vs a Leaper's fixed 4x illuminated scope on the carry handle vs. a Bushnell trophy red/green dot. I'll be sure to post it here. Not being made of money, I wanted to test a low fixed power optic vs. the red dot and the Leapers 4/15 illuminated scope was a $44 dollar gamble I'm willing to take to test drive it, I can always mount it on another rifle if I don't like it on my Colt.
 
I would avoid the EOTECH. They do not hold up. At the most recent Pat Rogers Carbine course 50% of the eotechs in the class did not make it. On day one they go over design and warn about eotechs. My biggest problem with them is the lawsuits after they failed 3 Army tests to Aimpoint. They are delaying our soilders from getting needed equipment in the field. As I understand it, you may have a better a better chance of making it through the course with a Aimpoint CLONE for $70 than a Eotech sight.

I would go Aimpoint if you have the money. I would strongly consider giving the Vortex Strikefire (they are suppost to hold up, will my one next), great warranty support that is covered lifetime, even if you buy it used.
 
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Is there a reason you can't use a flip-up rear sight and a Leupold CQT? I have seen that exact setup before.

No you can't flip the sight up with the scope mounted but you wouldn't be able to use the irons through a scope anyways, only a sight like an Aimpoint. LaRue makes an excellent QD mount for the CQT. Problem solved :)

FFMedic
 
I would avoid the EOTECH. They do not hold up. At the most recent Pat Rogers Carbine course 50% of the eotechs in the class did not make it. On day one they go over design and warn about eotechs. My biggest problem with them is the lawsuits after they failed 3 Army tests to Aimpoint. They are delaying our soilders from getting needed equipment in the field. As I understand it, you may have a better a better chance of making it through the course with a Aimpoint CLONE for $70 than a Eotech sight.

I would go Eotech if you have the money. I would strongly consider giving the Vortex Strikefire (they are suppost to hold up, will my one next), great warranty support that is covered lifetime, even if you buy it used.
Click to expand...

*** :confused:
 
I would avoid the EOTECH. They do not hold up.
Click to expand...

Don't tell mine, they have survived several carbine classes and various drops, crashes, smashes, and at least one submersion.

I would strongly consider giving the Vortex Strikefire
Click to expand...

You've used one? How do you like the bad internal reflection? Those fixed now?
 
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I used the Vortex strike fire and the internal reflection is fixed but it needs one more brightness setting for those clear sunny days. So needless to say I removed the strike fire and installed an Aimpoint comp2
 
I like the eotechs I have looked through, very fast aquiring targets. There is no question there are reliablity concerns, when at the start of a carbine course you are told your unit has a 50% chance of surviving two days, would not want it as a combat optic, neither does the military anymore. The reflection problem on the first batch of Strikefire was corrected (the part was painted black), I have not had extensive use of one. They appear very nice, for $129 especially.
 
'Vortex Strikefire', eh? I'll definitely give it a look. Thank you.

Again, gentlemen, I'm NOT trying to help this new M4 carbine keep up with the big long-range bolt guns I have. That's why I want a variable-power scope that can be turned down to no magnification and/or that doesn't dial up past 4x. It's quite accurate, after all, even with the factory ammunition I've spent in it. But then, GA Precision did put a match chamber in it. So if I have something that will give me just a wee-bit magnification (nothing more), I can realize it's potential. I am gonna be handloading for, mind you, using Lapua cases and Sierra 69-gr MKs.

Incidentally, any of you know where I can score a couple of 8-lb kegs of VV N140 and/or a case of Federal Match small rifle primers? :rolleyes:
 
ACOG + JPoint. Works great on my SW AR-15.

EOtechs are also nice. But it all depends on the purpose of the rifle.
 
I've got a superbly zeroed rear flip up with acog 4x32 sitting right in front of it, both standard issue. I couldn't ask for a better setup. Eye relief is not a problem. I've got total confidence this weapon will be what I need when I need it.
 
I'm going to put a Leupold 2.5 on my next AR. Good eye relief and I can buy three or four of them compared to an ACOG. No clue how they would work with BUIS.
 
I see three options.

1) Aimpoint or Eotech w/ side controls (556/557 etc) + flip-to-side magnifier + low-profile flip-up rear sight. All three will fit on a standard upper.
Downside: must flip magnifier out of way to use iron sights.
Upside: easily done with off the shelf components, gives decent magnification of a 1moa dot...good enough for precision.

2) Angled iron sights as done by 3-gun shooters, and whatever you want up top.
Downside: looks goofy.
Upside: doesn't require reconfiguring rifle (or pulling your hands from the grips) to switch sights.

3) Quick release scope base holding whatever you want and a flip-up rear.
Downside: must remove scope to switch to irons...now you've got something that must be clipped to another rail or set aside for storage.
Upside: You can have a selection of scopes for different purposes and switch based on need.
 
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I Have a Aimpoint CompC3 2x 1 MOA on my M1A on a Ultimak M8 rail and love its best optic I've ever had, I highly recommend any Aimpoints and you cant go wrong with a 2x one in my opinion.
 
Not that it really matters at this point, but I just wanted to submit something I just heard from a police officer friend up in the Dallas area (I'm in Houston) who worked for Triple Canopy in Iraq.

He told me he ran into an Army Special Ops type over there who had mounted to his M4 an SN-4 + a Surefire Millenium Universal Weaponlight with a Surfire laser sight head screwed into it. And he added that this carbine had NO iron sights on it. He went on to add that this fella submitted to him that the scope covered all situations in which he found himself during daylight hours and the laser sight all situations in which he found himself during close quarters, nighttime situations (the latter matter on which he supposedly commented that; "Iron sights are comparatively useless in the dark, even if they're tritium illuminated!")

I looked up how much this sighting complement would cost -- $2500 and change! And yes, all elements are available to the civilian consumer. But I tell ya, anyone who was crazy enough to spring for such a combo would be remiss not to protect their sighting implements before the rifle itself, 'cuz the latter would be SOOOO much less expensive to replace than the former! :eek:
 
woops,
wrong picture. here you go:

DSC_0057.jpg
 
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