Which handgun is most prone to Accidental/Negligent discharge?

[qwert65]

I really don't understand how one can accidentally fire a 1911, personally I think they are the safest semi-auto out there(though not the simplest)
Think about it if the hammer is down, it won't go off
If it is cocked, the safety has to be off, you have to be holding the gun correctly(grip safety), and you still need to pull the trigger.

 

[ny32182]

The two most recent Unintended-D's I have witnessed (unfortunately both within the last week and a half or so):

1) Sig, hammer back, while holstering. Inexperienced shooter... Grazed his shoe but missed his foot. Yes, it was that close to being a lot more painful for him.

2) 2011, while doing a speed reload... very experienced master class competitive shooter.

The common thread was a super light trigger, pressed obviously at a time when it should not have been.

I don't recall ever seeing one happen with a Glock (might have at some point and just don't remember), and I am present for hundreds of thousands of rounds a year put through Glocks by shooters of all experience levels.

 

[ForumSurfer]

The one with the do-it-yourself trigger job.

Nonsense. I have several of those in rifles, shotguns and pistols.

I don't think any of them are more prone to have an accident. Where there is a careless soul, there is a way.

Someone else said "the unloaded one." I'd be willing t bet that rule is the most often violated rule that leads to an ND.

I also don't believe in accidents (probably a byproduct of my troubleshooting relatively complex problems for a living). An accidental discharge is a mechanical failure in my eyes, one in which the trigger was never pulled. There will always be something contributory that leads to it, no matter if it is normal wear and tear or faulty gunsmithing. If the four rules are followed, those end well for everyone.

 

[Striker]

To my way of thinking (and training) ADs and NDs are seperate and distinct, though both may be characterized as unintentional.

- An accidental discharge is a mechanical failure and occurs without user interaction with the trigger.

- A negligent discharge is one caused by the operator doing something he wasn't supposed to be doing or by not doing something that he was suppose to do, and is most always training (or lack thereof) related.

Having said that, I don't think any modern firearm is more prone then another to unintentional discharges, if the user understands and trains in the proper manipulation of the firearm in question.

Just my opinion, YMMV.

 

[loneviking]

Glock, for the reason that even very experienced shooters have ADs with these due to the trigger design. Second would be 1911s that are either in the hands of a new shooter or that are mechnically defective. Running a close third are single action 'cocked and locked' with no grip safety like Sigs P238, or a DA/SA with only a slide safety carried 'cocked and locked'.

 

[TonyT]

According to an old gunsmith friend it's the one that is believed to be unloaded.

 

[Manson]

I admit I am having a hard time with some of the responses.

Which gun is most likely to be involved in a negligent discharge? The one owned by the person most likely to forget the rules.

Which manufacturers gun is most likely to be involved in a negligent discharge? Glock followed by a 1911. Because there are simply more of them. It's not design, it's math. Field strip a glock. Don't unload it. Don't clear it. Don't point the gun in a safe direction. Place your hand over the muzzle and pull the trigger. If you are that stupid say hello to hole in your hand.

This is the kind of thread that I hate to see. We get people in the gun community talking about guns as if they are inherently dangerous. Just the kind of thing the anti's love.

No one gun is more likely in and of itself to be involved than another. All modern guns are safe. Modern man is not.

 

[M1key]

Nonsense. I have several of those in rifles, shotguns and pistols.

I don't think any of them are more prone to have an accident. Where there is a careless soul, there is a way.

Took it personal did ya? Hardly nonsense. Ask any gunsmith who has had to repair them.

M

 

[Owen Sparks]

Pistols are like any other power tool in that they are designed to fit the hand. The index finger just naturally fits into the trigger guard. This can become a problem with people who are unfamiliar with them and a mechanical safety can sometimes prevent an accident by blocking the trigger.
Many 1911 fans claim that the safety can save your life if someone snatches your pistol. If you handed a loaded Glock to a chimp he would probably shoot it as the most natural way to hold it puts his index finger on the one moving part. You can hand a loaded 1911 to a seasoned Glock shooter to try and still have to show him how to take the safety off.

 

[EddieNFL]

You can put your finger in the triggerguard and spin and shake a stock Glock (with empty chamber) all around, and the trigger will not break.

Did you read that somewhere or know from personal experience?

 

[X-Rap]

Did you read that somewhere or know from personal experience?

Gee I just read this and like a monkey I had to try, yes you must shake it quite vigorously to get the trigger to break.
I don't have a 1911 here at he moment but I will bet that so long as the grip safety is functioning it will stay safe with the same treatment, I wouldn't bet on another sa/da that was cocked with the safety wiped off.

 

[M1key]

LOL...just tried that with my Glock 19 (unloaded) and he's right. Twirled the pistol over head and up/down for several seconds and I couldn't get the striker to drop. Then tried it with chamber empty/fully loaded mag. Nada...

How about you Glockers, XDers, M&Pers give that a try and report back, okay?

Mine has a 5.5# connector btw.


M

 

[X-Rap]

You have to hold your finger with the other hand and shake real hard, if I have to continue these tests I will have to use a wooden dowel cause my finger hurts to bad

 

[allaroundhunter]

To all that say Glock, do a search for the ND poll on this forum. There were more "oops, the hammer slipped while I was decocking" ND's than all the ND's that were even possible to attribute to a lack of a manual safety! Since the Glock doesn't have an external hammer, it's safe to say Glock ain't it. And in the comments, 1911's and revolvers were implicated many times more often than Glocks. 1911's seem to be the #1 creators of unwanted holes in bedroom walls.

There are more ND's with Glocks and there lack of external hammers than Sigs with their decockers....

1911's are not cause of more ND's than Glocks are, and police departments and civilians alike have proven that many times over.

How about you Glockers, XDers, M&Pers give that a try and report back, okay?

My M&P's striker didn't fall

 

[45_auto]

LMAO! - Don't you just love these totally unverifiable statements!

There are more ND's with Glocks and there lack of external hammers than Sigs with their decockers....

No there aren't, there are more ND's with Sigs and their decockers than there are with Glocks.

1911's are not cause of more ND's than Glocks are, and police departments and civilians alike have proven that many times over.

1911's are the cause of more ND's than Glocks because of people trying to lower the hammer. That's why most police departments prohibit the carry of a single-action first shot automatic pistol. Police departments and civilians alike have proven that many times over.

I'll show you my data if you'll show me yours!

 

[allaroundhunter]

1911's are the cause of more ND's than Glocks because of people trying to lower the hammer. That's why most police departments prohibit the carry of a single-action first shot automatic pistol. Police departments and civilians alike have proven that many times over.

If said police departments would permit the carry of a SA first shot then no officer would be trying to lower the hammer on a live round.....

 

[brickeyee]

The one being held by a fool.

Nothing is foolproof, fools are to ingenious.

 

[TonyAngel]

I really don't know why Glocks get such a bad rap. The darned gun can't go off unless the trigger is pulled. I mean, a Glock isn't even "cocked" until the trigger is pulled.

Are the Glock knockers saying that a safety of some sort is needed to keep people from pulling the trigger?

I will admit that I can't disagree that most accidental or negligent discharges that I see or hear about involve Glocks, but of course, there are a lot more Glocks out there than some other makes.

 

[allaroundhunter]

Are the Glock knockers saying that a safety of some sort is needed to keep people from pulling the trigger?

The question was which gun is more prone to a negligent discharge. This means someone being an idiot.

It is easier to cause a ND with a Glock than with a 1911 (or any other gun with a manual safety). It takes more thought into what you are doing if you have a manual safety, and that is a fact (and also a reason why many people here carry Glocks, so don't try to refute that statement now).

 

[ny32182]

I would say that more thinking required = more opportunity to be "negligent".

 

[TonyAngel]

It is easier to cause a ND with a Glock than with a 1911 (or any other gun with a manual safety). It takes more thought into what you are doing if you have a manual safety, and that is a fact (and also a reason why many people here carry Glocks, so don't try to refute that statement now).

I'm not getting this. What is it that I'm supposed to refrain from refuting?

In anycase, I really don't agree with anything taking more thought. I don't care what handgun you have. If you have to think about anything, you haven't trained enough with it.

 

[CMC]

All guns are prone to ND if the safety between the ears is not engaged!
All guns are loaded at all times, if you dont know how to handle it properly dont touch it.
I take my grandkids shooting and safety is everybodys job , the older kids also help with muzzle control ,finger off the trigger until sights are on target and off when not shooting.
We make sure autoloaders are shot dry , also the action is opened and a clear has to be shown before you leave the firing line.
BTW they love 22 and 9mm 1911's .

Tony he is referring to not refuse the fact that people like glocks because they dont have a safety, all you have to do is pull the trigger and you dont really have to think about using it , ease of use with limited training.
Glocks can be outfitted with a 1911 style safety made by Comminolli or the sliding pin trigger block safety that replaces the trigger.

 

[LTR shooter]

Of all modern guns?

Glock.

Almost every ND you read about involving cops or football players involve Glocks.

A cop here in town actually managed to shoot himself. The cops here carry 45 cal Glocks. Regardless ,it is not the fault of the gun by any means.

The question was which gun is more prone to a negligent discharge. This means someone being an idiot.

Would undoubtedly apply to the cop here in town.

 

[GLOOB]

You can put your finger in the triggerguard and spin and shake a stock Glock (with empty chamber) all around, and the trigger will not break.

Did you read that somewhere or know from personal experience?

I know because I've tried it. I also know that simply readjusting my grip on my cocked 6" 686 with my finger on the trigger is a very bad idea. 3 lb gun, 2 lb trigger pull with a 0.001mm travel* = not forgiving of mistakes.

*It's not just the weight of the trigger pull that's important, either. The length matters, too. If you were to bobble or jostle the gun with finger on the trigger, the takeup would buffer the impact. Work = force x distance. So a longer trigger with the same break weight takes more work to fire.

When evaluating a trigger's relative safety, I believe it's important to note the length of travel, the weight of the gun, and the ergos of the gun and trigger guard, in addition to just considering the weight of the trigger break. All this blabber basically amounts to my patent-pending shake & spin test.

It is easier to cause a ND with a Glock than with a 1911 (or any other gun with a manual safety).

I totally disagree. I think the manual safety is limited in its benefit to certain scenarios (bedside drawer without a holster, or when reholstering). If you compare a gun with a hair trigger and an external hammer and a manual safety (not saying a 1911, in particular) to a stock Glock, I think the Glock would be much harder to ND. We hear about the sensational ND's, like the drawstring or holster malfunction. What doesn't make the headlines are all the "ordinary" ND's that are much more common. Like "I dunno how, but the hammer just slipped..." or the "forgot to take my finger off the trigger and the gun just went off" or the "was expecting a clink and got a BANG" NDs. Note that in any of these much more common scenarios, it is unreasonable to believe the manual safety would even be on.

 

[45_auto]

You can spin your cocked 686 around your finger if you move your hand correctly. Move your hand in a small circle as the revolver spins so that your trigger finger is always pressing against the front of the trigger gaurd. You have to move your hand and trigger finger forward, then up, then back, then down, then forward again as the gun spins around. It would probably be a REAL GOOD idea to make sure that it's unloaded first!

I haven't tried it on anything with a barrel longer than about 6.5" or on any semiautos, but it's pretty easy to do on 686's, 629's, and Ruger and Colt single actions.

(Or so I've been told - heaven forbid that I do something so potentially dangerous myself! You should leave these things to professionals. )