Accidental vs. Negligent

[NinjaFeint]

Politically:

Negligent discharge - gun owners are idiots and should not have guns.

Accidental discharge - guns are dangerous as they can up and go off on their own. Need to limit the number of guns.

Yeah thats politics. Still, if the gun goes off when you don't want it and you pulled the trigger, it's negligent. We can't ignore our own responsibility.

 

[EddieNFL]

An accident is an unintentional event. When a gun is discharged inadvertently it is an accidental discharge.

I'm sure almost everyone here has experienced an "unintentional" discharge. Most, if not all were a result of a negligent act: "thought it was unloaded," being the most common mistake.

Why would you tell a cop you were negilgent, regardless of what happened?

 

[wrs840]

"...Almost Everything that's called an 'accident' is a predictable event that is the direct result of somebody screwing up..." - Robert D. Raiford

One of the most memorable things he ever said, IMO. My kids can recite it on my cue, and at 8 and 12, they handle guns safely.

Les

 

[mustang_steve]

NDs all around. All firearms should be function checked. The question is who's negligent? That's the owner of the firearm if it's function related.

The rest of ADs are NDs on you, as it would be a handling issue. Drop-bangs are definately negligent, even if based on a design flaw as one shouldn't carry a pistol with such a design flaw.

 

[Full Metal Jacket]

Well, FMJ, if the mods lock threads because of differing opinions, there ain't gonna be much to talk about.

i agree with that statement.

however, this thread is simply beating a dead horse, and not coming to any sort of consensus or conclusion on the issue. there's no point in such a thread.

 

[EddieNFL]

i agree with that statement.

however, this thread is simply beating a dead horse, and not coming to any sort of consensus or conclusion on the issue. there's no point in such a thread.

I agree with the dead horse beating, but, think about it, how many threads fall into the never settled category?

...and we're helping keep it alive.

 

[Eric F]

ac·ci·dent (ks-dnt, -dnt) KEY

NOUN:


1 An unexpected and undesirable event, especially one resulting in damage or harm: car accidents on icy roads.
2 An unforeseen incident: A series of happy accidents led to his promotion.
3 An instance of involuntary urination or defecation in one's clothing.
4 Lack of intention; chance: ran into an old friend by accident.
5 Logic A circumstance or attribute that is not essential to the nature of something.

neg·li·gence (ngl-jns) KEY

NOUN:

1 The state or quality of being negligent.
2 A negligent act or a failure to act.
3 Law Failure to exercise the degree of care considered reasonable under the circumstances, resulting in an unintended injury to another party.

Based on these yahoo searches, ad/ nd arguement, if you broke a law of locality state or federal it is a nd other wise it is an ad.

Example: you had a gun in your pocket and reached for it and it went off hitting another person it would be a nd

Example: your gun was on the bench at the range and you picked it up placing your finger on the trigger before the target was in alignment with the gun and it went bang sending the bullet into the gorund. this would be an ad!

Enough said!

 

[RobMoore]

In my view you have unintentional discharges with or without negligence. Some may refer to an AD as the second type. They do exist.

If the gun doesn't do its job, and fires when I don't want it to, and I did nothing wrong (like not cleaning it or something), it is not an ND.

We all say "mechanical devices can and will fail" when it comes to excusing the malfunctions in our weapons, such as failures to feed. Why shouldn't the same mentality be applied to the failure of it not to fire when the trigger hasn't been pressed?

 

[EddieNFL]

Example: you had a gun in your pocket and reached for it and it went off hitting another person it would be a nd

Example: your gun was on the bench at the range and you picked it up placing your finger on the trigger before the target was in alignment with the gun and it went bang sending the bullet into the gorund. this would be an ad!

Other than injury, there is no difference between the two examples. The shooter negligently violated the 4th Law of Gun Safety - Keep Your Finger Off The Trigger Until Your Sights Are On The Target!

IMO, both are NDs.

 

[MacTech]

My opinion is pretty simple;

Accidental; discharge due to mechanical failure of the firearm because of defective hardware
Negligent; booger hook pulling the bang switch when it wasn't intended, Four Rules violation

I'd class 99.999% of unintentional discharges as negligent

 

[lindy]

Homicide

There are four types of Homicide:
Felonious
Accidental
Justifiable
and Praiseworthy

-Ambrose Bierce-

Lindy

 

[Full Metal Jacket]

I agree with the dead horse beating, but, think about it, how many threads fall into the never settled category?

...and we're helping keep it alive.

OMG, you're right!

 

[GRIZ22]

To me accidental denotes a mechanical failure of the firearm causing it to discharge. Any type of human error makes it unintentional.

 

[Eric F]

The shooter negligently violated the 4th Law of Gun Safety - Keep Your Finger Off The Trigger Until Your Sights Are On The Target!

Sorry the "laws of gun safety" do not apply here in this case. Please Quote any local state or federal law that says the sights must be on a target. These are only safety guide lines. Mere suggestions. not laws.

The diffrence in my quote is the gun in the pocket is negligent because

Law Failure to exercise the degree of care considered reasonable under the circumstances, resulting in an unintended injury to another party.

but it could be an accident also based on

An unexpected and undesirable event, especially one resulting in damage or harm

 

[Full Metal Jacket]

unsubscribed.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Although the Burns Code may state otherwise, if the discharge was in any way shape or form caused by human intervention it is negligence on the part of the human. And yes, this includes being 'accidentally' dropped. Around our house there was one tried and true rule- it's not the machine it's the operator.

 

[wishin]

You may argue that your gun went off accidently (not intentional), but more often then not, you were negligent!

 

[MarkDozier]

Harpo is on thr right track, Most motor vehicle incidents are the resukt of negilgence, There are very few "accidents."

 

[SaxonPig]

EddieNFL-

Let's say something awful happens involving shooting something I didn't intend to shoot.

Cops come, start asking what happened.

I am in the habit of calling these events "negligent discharges" so I tell the cop "I had a negligent discharge."

Cop writes in report "subject admitted he was negligent."

Prosecutor reads police report and sees where I admitted to a criminal act. Now I am facing trial on felony charges.

Lawyer hired to investigate the incident reads police report in which I admitted being negligent and now files massive lawsuit knowing he can tell the jury I admitted being negligent, thus making me totally liable for all damages.

No thank you.

Yes, absolutely, most ADS are the result of some negligence. But using that word is a dangerous thing as it means you assume full legal responsibility with no hope of explaining what really happened.

 

[Erik]

My take on it:

Accidental discharges are mechanically caused.
Negligent discharges are operator caused.

 

[Zach S]

Lawyer hired to investigate the incident reads police report in which I admitted being negligent and now files massive lawsuit knowing he can tell the jury I admitted being negligent, thus making me totally liable for all damages.

So, if you don't mean to do it, you aren't accountable?

Eh, just blame the gun. Works for the left.

 

[EddieNFL]

Please Quote any local state or federal law that says the sights must be on a target.

There is no law requiring you to keep you finger off the trigger, either.

If a bullet unintentionally leaves the bore, 99.99 percent of the time, someone was negligent.

 

[Blackbeard]

It's a matter of one being a subset of the other. All negligent discharges are accidents, but not all accidents are the result of negligence.

Example 1: You're cleaning your loaded gun with your finger on the trigger and shoot yourself through the leg. This is an accident as a result of negligence. AD and ND both apply.

Example 2: You're at the range and your semi-auto slam-fires when you close the action. This is an accident caused by mechanical failure. AD applies, but ND does not.

 

[guitarman531]

Just responding to the OP:

IMHO:
accidental means the gun goes off without any external input (or when doing something that wasn't intended to fire the gun--ie. some sort of failure with the gun itself)
Negligent means some kind of external source [trigger finger, bunched up clothing, stuff in your gym bag (actually happened to a kid--they called it "accidental" and blamed his Glock for being unsafe....maybe if he didn't keep a Glock in condition 1 bouncing around in a gym bag......)]

 

[d2wing]

Depends on how much you pay your lawyer.