Which is faster, a conventional scope or an intermediate eye relief?

[atek3]

Suppose you have two identical remington model 7's, one has a 2.5 power fixed Intermediate eye relief scope (aka scout scope), one has a standard 2.5 power fixed normal eye relief scope (aka turkey scope), which rifle will make faster hits at distance? is the scout scope concept faster than conventional low power optics?

thanks
atek3

 

[Zak Smith]

There are several competing factors:

1. Longer eye relief will mean when no looking "through" the optic, it takes less of your field of view, which allows for more natural-1x visual cues when trying to put the target in the optic's view.

2. Greater field of view makes it easier to "pan and scan" to find the target, if you are looking "through" the optic.

Note that #1 and #2 go against each other, since longer eye relief normally means less field of view.

When you say, "faster hits at distance", you are kind of throwing a wrench into it, since speed is more normally a concern for what I would term close-range and intermediate-distance (0-25, and 25-200 yards). Beyond those distances, I would rather have a conventional eye relief scope provided it has more field of view than the scout style optic.

To use some examples, the TA31 has the shortest eye relief and the bigger field of view, while the TA11 has longer eye relief and less field of view. The TA11 dominates when speed is concerned at short and intermediate range. I know these are not conventional rifle optic choices, but they illustrate those aspects.

 

[rbernie]

Zak's hit it on the nose. IER scopes are useful at closer ranges but their limited field of view becomes an increasing handicap as the range to target goes up.

Most of my brush guns wear IER scopes on 'em, but my open-field rifles do not.

 

[Dave R]

I believe the IER's in a scout scope configuration are significantly faster to get on target than conventional scopes--at short to intermediate distance, as Zak says.

You can shoot with both eyes open. So field of view for the scope is almost irrelevant. You have your full field of view, but the target area "pops out" a bit. The scope aperture seems to act like a big ghost ring, and the crosshairs almost automatically center themselves on the target.

BTW, that effect is lost if magnification gets too high, like over 3X, because your brain starts to disconnect the magnified area from the field of view. But at normal magnification (2 to 2.5X) the brain sees it all as a single field of view, with the target area highlighted.

I suppose it takes some getting used to, but once used to it, I think the effect is fairly magical. I'm a big fan, as you can tell.

 

[trstafford]

Open eyes

You can shoot a standard mounted scope with both eyes open. It is easier with the lower power and the farther the scope is the more perefial around the scope you can see. I practice shooting with both eyes open and it helps with running game in woods at close range. At one time I had a shotgun with a 4 power scope for deer hunting which I would practice by shooting clay from a thrower. It is harder to shoot this high a power but you can get relatively good with it.

 

[.38 Special]

I am no faster with either scope.

I agree with whomever said that FOV is not especially important if one is shooting with both eyes open... and if one is to hit quickly with a scoped rifle, one must have both eyes open.

I believe the critical aspect of snap shooting is the fit of the rifle. I am, in all actuality, faster with an old bolt gun I happen to have fitted with a compact 2.5 scope in the "standard" position than I am with my Scout rifle -- not because the old bolt gun is "better" or because of the distance between the scopes and my eye, but because the old bolt gun fits me like I was born to it and the Scout gun does not.

The rifle must come instantly to the shoulder and the scope to the eye. If it does, the scope will not matter to any great extent. And if it does not, well, the scope still won't make much difference.

 

[Zak Smith]

Shooting a rifle with both eyes open is almost always better than closing one eye. The exceptions include extreme cross-dominance and night-vision conservation.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Neither. Getting on target quickly is a function of knowing where the target is. Keeping both eyes open to reference the landscape and take advantage of the wide FOV your natural vision has will help you locate the target. It will not matter how much eye relief you have if the magnification is too high, though-your dominant eye will take over and anything not in the scope's FOV will become fuzzy. This actually becomes a handicap with a long eye relief, as the FOV in the scope is much narrower.

Just try one of each. I think you'll find standard riflescopes much easier to use at range, and open sights or 1x optical sights much easier close in. Low magnification long relief scopes are kinda like Hybrid cars. Sometimes middleground gives up too much on both ends.

All of my optical riflesights are either 1x red dot types, or variables with 3 as the lowest setting. The only long relief scopes I have are on handguns.

 

[geekWithA.45]

Getting on target quickly is almost entirely muscle memory and proprioception. (Proprioception = awareness and perception of the position of your body in space.)

The key to speed is to get your eye on the target, and then be able to repeatably and reliably get your firearm to the eye, in shooting position. Once you get it down, there should be little to zero "fishing" around for the target.

Sigh.

That reminds me.

Time to practice.

 

[ArmedBear]

The key to speed is to get your eye on the target, and then be able to repeatably and reliably get your firearm to the eye, in shooting position. Once you get it down, there should be little to zero "fishing" around for the target.

True.

If you don't want to freak out the neighbors, practice with binoculars at first. The skill is transferable to rifles, pistols, and shotguns -- provided they fit you.

IMHO it's easier to do with an IER scope than a conventional one. But I don't have any guns set up that way (yet).