Which is more effective?

[ArchAngelCD]

Did not think of that. Then you can carry +P rounds in a speed loader, just for when 5 wadcutters did not cut it, punn intended

I think the SWC was suggested for speed of reloading. The SWC bullet will find their way into the cylinders faster than a full WC will.

 

[bannockburn]

I like them both. The Model 649 is very easy to shoot with .38 wadcutters but the SIG P238 is much faster to reload.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I teach our state's Concealed Weapons Training class which includes 50 rounds of live fire qualifying. I have not had even one female student successfully qualify using a lightweight .38 snubby. Many have bruised hands after as few as 15 or 20 rounds. Those that get past the pain can't seem to master the long stiff trigger pull or the flinching they develop due to the recoil and accuracy suffers as a result. Based on that personal experience I never recommend a lightweight snubby for any inexperienced shooters.

I'm glad to hear an instructor say this. I think it is a common misconception that because a 38 doesn't generate a lot of recoil that it will be easier to shoot for a woman or someone small in stature. Even if the grip and trigger reach fits a person well, 38's out of an airweight gun can be brutal to shoot for an inexperienced shooter, and also for an experienced shooter with large hands. I had a S&W 642 that even though I was able to shoot accurately and fast enough for defense purposes, I found myself not wanting to practice with it because it beat my hand up badly. I could have put a larger grip on it, but that would have made it impractical for pocket carry, which was the intended use. So it went away.

I would never recommend a small 38 to a person small in stature unless it was an all steel gun, not alloy, like a Ruger SP101 or all steel J frame. That doesn't even address the trigger pull on a small DA or DA/SA revolver though. That is a whole other can of worms that needs addressing.

If only Ruger could put an LCR feeling trigger in the SP101, I think they would see women in droves showing up at the gun counter for a 2.25" DAO model. Of course, I think J frame triggers are perfectly adequate also, but definitely don't work for everyone.

 

[strambo]

I teach our state's Concealed Weapons Training class which includes 50 rounds of live fire qualifying. I have not had even one female student successfully qualify using a lightweight .38 snubby. Many have bruised hands after as few as 15 or 20 rounds. Those that get past the pain can't seem to master the long stiff trigger pull or the flinching they develop due to the recoil and accuracy suffers as a result. Based on that personal experience I never recommend a lightweight snubby for any inexperienced shooters.

I shot an airweight .38...once! I like 44 magnum recoil in a full size revolver but I would never own an airweight .38 or .357.

My wife's S&W has a scandium frame...but it also weighs over 25oz (386 Night Guard 7 shot L frame) so recoil with even +P .38s is no big deal for her, she shot it in a 2 day defensive handgun course no problem. She even won a mini-contest against the other shooters in her class.

I can see a tiny gun for that 10% of the time where you really couldn't conceal something larger, but the 90% of carry situations should be with a gun that you can shoot well. For me, that is typically my P226, yeah it's big and not the current trend but I can shoot it very fast and accurately and conceal it under an un-tucked Polo style shirt.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

When I carry a revolver, I carry a Colt Detective Special. That's 6 shots, and I'd rather have that with a hot wadcutter load than a .380 with one extra round.

 

[Old Fuff]

I shot an airweight .38...once! I like 44 magnum recoil in a full size revolver but I would never own an airweight .38 or .357.

Too many people match ultra-light guns with inappropriate ammunition, and then complain about the recoil. An answer is to pick a lesser load and not worry about the so-called "stopping power." If the little lightweight is kicking too hard for a particular person try 148 grain .38 Special mid-range ammunition or even drop down to .38 Long Colt CAS cartridges.

If you don't like this approach go to an all-steel model, or perhaps a smaller bore round. A good option to look at is Ruger's LCR line of revolvers chambered in .327 Magnum, that can use .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long and .32 H&R Magnum.

If this is still too much a Ruger LCR in .22 WRM may fit the bill.

 

[Skribs]

Some premium JHP work fine in .380. Shootinthebull410 did some really good videos on Youtube where most of the premium were classed as equal to or better than FMJ.

I still carry FMJ in my .380 because it feeds better, though.

 

[Great Scot]

My 2 cents

I'm not sure there is a significant difference between the two ammo choices you've asked about. However, one point, that has been touched on earlier, favors the .380. A .380, especially a Glock 42, is a much easier, and more enjoyable gun to practice with over the .38 snub. More practice means more hits on target. Hits are what counts. Thanks.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

wadcutter fan

Lately I've been carrying wadcutters and feel well armed. These are solid base 215 grain ones in .44 special.

Next day or so going to load some 157 grain solid base WC's for .38 special and .357

 

[481]

Lately I've been carrying wadcutters and feel well armed. These are solid base 215 grain ones in .44 special.

Next day or so going to load some 157 grain solid base WC's for .38 special and .357

Nice gun. That's a Charter Arms, yeah?

How fast are those hunks of lead loaded to?

 

[RecoilRob]

MY ex-girlfriend called when she was looking for a gun to take her concealed carry class, and I had a stainless Taurus 85 on the shelf not doing anything since it was replaced with a Lighweight 850 CIA hammerless so I gave it to her.

Also gave her a couple boxes of .38's with cast 158 loaded very mild for her class. When she got there, the instructor had to inspect everyones weapon and he was liking the 85 a lot. It had been bobbed and round-butted and slicked up inside and was pretty smooth and feels great in your hand. He made a point to show it to everyone else in the class (all women) as it was the ONLY revolver on the line.

And...in the two days of range time it was the only gun that didn't malfunction a single time. The instructor had mentioned to her that he was glad she had that 85 and that he'd not have to worry about her...and he didn't. She shot it well enough and had fun, while all the other ladies had constant misfeeds and the poor instructor was run ragged trying to keep everyone shooting. Guns aren't for everyone, and a full steel .38 loaded light with good trigger is actually fairly easy to shoot, so it's what I always suggest for a non-enthusiast shooter.

The lighweight 38's with +P are a bit snappy for sure! The 850 with Crimson Trace hard plastic grips is great for carrying but not nearly as nice as that old 85 was for actually putting lead downrange. For the conveniece of carry you must sacrifice something and I'd never suggest a lightweight anything for someone planning to put lots of rounds through it.

 

[Hunter2011]

Lately I've been carrying wadcutters and feel well armed. These are solid base 215 grain ones in .44 special.

Next day or so going to load some 157 grain solid base WC's for .38 special and .357

I will also not feel unarmed with .44 wadcutters. Beautiful gun you got there. May I ask how thick it is at the cylinder?

 

[Hunter2011]

Some premium JHP work fine in .380. Shootinthebull410 did some really good videos on Youtube where most of the premium were classed as equal to or better than FMJ.

I still carry FMJ in my .380 because it feeds better, though.

And that is why I want to compare .38 wadcutters to 380 FMJ ammo. Besides the fact that it is in fact more reliable in these tiny pistols, it also offers more than enough penetration. To compare .38 Special JHP+P with 380 Auto is pointless as many people do not carry HP ammo in 380 Auto.

 

[FLNT4EVR]

I have both i carry hydra shoks in the little 380 with 2 , 7 rnd mags . In my 38 snubby i carry hard bitter root wadcutters backed up by 2 speed loaders full of the FBI load 158 grn swchp,s .

 

[GRIZ22]

Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents on something brought up. I've been shooting for almost 50 years. Everything from BB guns to 8" howitzers. I've been a firearms instructor since 1976. LE instructor for most of the time. I'm not recoil sensitive. I've been known to blow off a box of full bore 44 magnums for fun.

I own several 38 j frame size revolvers. They are all steel frame. I wouldn't buy an alloy j frame (unless someone offered me a really good deal). There are a couple of reasons for this.

First is recoil. The few extra ounces of a steel frame give a significant reduction in felt recoil compared to an alloy frame. To those who say "I can handle it" you still will be able to execute follow up shots faster with a steel frame, everything else being equal. To those who say "I don't even know my Airweight is there" I say I like to know my gun is there.

Another reason is longevity. I've seen too many Airweights that have fired +Ps with stretched top straps. True this is with older guns and metallurgy has come a long way. However, I still have a S&W from the 70s that has never needed any work with well over 10,000 rds thru it. That's just based on the times I've qualified with it.

A friend has a Scandia j frame. I found the recoil painful with the stock grips.

I also would never suggest a new shooter start with a j frame size gun, steel or alloy.

 

[Hunter2011]

Since wadcutters are not totally useless, and more effective than any normal FMJ round, it begs the question...
Is wadcutters in .32 pushing it or would they also prove to be rather effective, taking into account shot placement is even more critical? I have to agree that I will never count on .32 FMJ rounds, as the wound channel will be very small. But will a .32 wadcutter not perhaps make the same sized hole than a 380 FMJ, seeing it will cut a bigger hole than any FMJ of the same size?
Or will a low powered .32 wadcutter perhaps not have enough penetration?

 

[GRIZ22]

While I would not suggest a 32 for SD, if that's what a person can shoot well its better than a 22. I haven't conducted any type of test of a 32 wc vs a 32 rn. I would be quite certain that a HBWC will penetrate more than a round nose in ballistic gel. Any round nose tends to tumble when the nose meets enough resistance as the base of the bullet is heavier and inertia makes the bullet swap ends. A HBWC is nose heavy so it keeps going nose first.

Although I wouldn't suggest it as long as the person can shoot something with more power I don't underestimate the usefulness of a 32. Teddy Roosevelt chose the then new 32 S&W Long as the standard for NYPD when he was Commisioner. European police did well with the 32 ACP for well into the 1970s.

 

[StrawHat]

When I had to carry a small bore, I preferred the full wadcutter at full velocities. I talked to more than a few Medical examiners and coroners and found it was a round they also carried.

Here is someone else's take on the same idea.

http://www.grantcunningham.com/2011/11/ed-harris-revisiting-the-full-charge-wadcutter/

Kevin

 

[TimSr]

Carry a Taurus 85 with 148gr DEWC handloads at 950fps for the very reasons the OP was asking. I don't expect reliable expansion of HP at snub velocities unless you use a very light bullet, which shoots way low in my fixed sights revolver.

I do NOT recommend snubbies for beginners.
I do NOT recommend wadcutters in your speedloader.
I do NOT recommend TARGET wadcutters unless that is the most recoil you can handle. (This counts out HBWCs.)

I DO recommend cast DEWC wadcutters that can handle at least full 38 spl pressures, or better yet +P. Most commercial loads are ultra light for punching paper. I know Buffalo Bore makes some defensive wadcutter loads with a little more beef.

 

[Skribs]

And that is why I want to compare .38 wadcutters to 380 FMJ ammo. Besides the fact that it is in fact more reliable in these tiny pistols, it also offers more than enough penetration. To compare .38 Special JHP+P with 380 Auto is pointless as many people do not carry HP ammo in 380 Auto.

But if you're comparing what you're likely to carry, then .38 JHP vs. .380 FMJ is a very valid concern.

I also would carry JHP if it fed better in my gun. I could probably polish the feed ramp a bit to make it catch less, or go with something a bit more expensive than the LCP. As it is, I also have an LCR I sometimes pocket carry, which has JHP loaded.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

Nice gun. That's a Charter Arms, yeah?

How fast are those hunks of lead loaded to?

I don't know...don't have a chronograph. I suppose as fast as 6.0 grains of Unique will move the 215 grain WC's out of a 2.5" barrel.

Probably faster than these 250 grain lead chunks.





Hunter2011 said:

I will also not feel unarmed with .44 wadcutters. Beautiful gun you got there. May I ask how thick it is at the cylinder?

1.451"

 

[Hunter2011]

I don't know...don't have a chronograph. I suppose as fast as 6.0 grains of Unique will move the 215 grain WC's out of a 2.5" barrel.

Probably faster than these 250 grain lead chunks.





Hunter2011 said:

1.451"

Perfect SD firearm you've got there

 

[Paladin7]

Due to the prevalence of both calibers over the years in police service around the world, there is a treasure trove of real life examples of both rounds used in actual gun fights from which to draw from...

When 38 Specials ruled the roost, the 158 gr LSWCHP +P, known also as the FBI or Treasury Load, was the most effective in actual gun fights. Much more effective than a 380 solid or HP.

Nowadays, with a lot of snubbies being sold, there are other options, like the Speer Gold Dot short barrel loads like their 135 gr load, which should be seriously considered.

I'm sure the 380 has advanced over the years as well, but my preference is for an all steel 38 Special revolver loaded with the FBI load (which is the most proven) or the new Gold Dot load or equivalent.

 

[mavracer]

I prefer the heavy bullet 38 loads to the 380 by a smidge really pretty much a tossup. The biggest advantage in my case is my LCR has a XS front nightsight and crimson trace grips, my LCP is minimalist.
I actually prefer to carry one of my bigger pocket autos (LC9s pro, PPS 40 or CW45) if I can.

the 158 gr LSWCHP +P, known also as the FBI or Treasury Load

FIO the Treasury load usually refers to the 110gr +P+ load.

 

[Panzerschwein]

The accuracy, flawless reliability, and excellent stopping power of the .38 snubnose revolver loaded with full wadcutter cannot be beat by any .380 auto pistol.

It has been proven countless times that the average number of shots fired in a civilian self defense scenario is right around 1-3 rounds. Not only that, but the vast majority of the time just the presentation of a gun is enough to end the conflict with no shots fired. And, in the astronomically high chance that a reload is needed, there are numerous speedloader and strips available.