Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by LookAtYou, May 6, 2021.
Thank you. You made my point for me.
Sig p365 is 23.6 oz. loaded vs. 16 oz for the Glock 42, which is much easier to pocket carry IMHO.
11rounds of 9mm vs 7 rounds of 380, buy a new belt.
Not much difference between the two rounds in real world SD situations.
When all the world's military and police switch to 380, I'll believe that.
I think the .380 came about in the movies.
I would argue the opposite. The guns that are chambered in 380 tend to be very small and therefore alot harder to shoot accurately than something just a little bigger. I probably wouldn't buy one, but I'd be intrigued by a Smith Shield or a Glock 43 in 380. More capacity and less recoil would certainly be interesting.
Well, if less recoil is a criterion for you then the Glock 43 sure isn't your ticket.
Hardly the same situational needs. It's like saying because lots of cops drive a Crown Victoria that's the best car.
The need to stop someone quickly when necessary is the same. A 9mm round that expands and penetrates is superior to a 380 round that doesn't expand at all or if it does expand doesn't penetrate enough.
Greg Ellifritz's data from shootings does not show the 9mm doing any better than 380.
32 acp performs better than 9/357/40/45 (32 acp percent actually incapacitated 72%)
Perhaps I should carry a P32 rather than a Glock 23
Again, it says in his study that over half the 9mm were FMJ and he doesn't take into account, with the data, from the conclusions he kinda does, the shooter and the overall situation for each of the shootings he lists. Was it a fight between two bangers in a drug rip from surprise, or was it a shootout with a determined attacker vs LEO (who even then we're trained to shoot till the threat stop, skewing lethality and stopping data if multiple hits were given to the victim and not needed). It's not like each person was shooting, assessing, shooting if the threat didn't stop, it just doesn't work that way. On the other hand, he doesn't specify that he specifically needed gunfights, i.e. two way ranges, how many were simple murders or muggings of an unarmed or unsuspecting victim who's fight or flight instincts and adrenaline it's going to be different than someone amped up for a fight.
The truth is every fight is different, thats why we can't and probably never will be able to get a proper comparison on effectiveness.
Plus he does state:
It is true that the psychological stop would be effective with just about any round (and from ASP videos often from misses too) but what if it's not. Personally I carry because I'm preparing for more worst case scenarios so I don't want to be stuck with a "best case" pistol (mouse gun) in a "worst case" situation like multiple or a single determined attacker. If I went just by the odds, I wouldn't carry a gun at all.
Barriers might come into play and the smaller rounds (other than things like 5.7) often struggle a lot more getting penetration and/or any expansion with intermediate barriers.
I don't find the Glock 43 recoil to be that bad but less recoil will always help with faster follow up shots and once you add in more capacity that becomes intriguing in such a small package.
Exactly, there are several studies like that out there. Still waiting for a real life story of a perp being hit in the vitals with a .380 and not breaking off the attack. The OP question was, is the .380 sufficient for SD, not is it the most powerful. I like it because it is lighter making it more likely to be carried and more shootable. I got over magnumitis a long time ago both in a concealed carry weapon and hunting.
Historically--for what that's worth--it was the police round, as it was "bigger" than the .32acp, at least across Europe.
The "for war" (para bellum in Latin) round was 9x19.
Then, if we want to muddy the water more, there is the 9x18, which is often touted as a "hot" round (which requires context). Or the .357sig, which is 9x22.
It's easy to be caught up in minutiae
How do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice, practice, practice.
How would .380 ACP do, in the through-arm-and-cross-torso type of shot fired by FBI Special Agent Dove, against the felon Michal Platt? This would not be a typical self-defense shot, but could well be relevant when defending a third person, such as a family member.
A duty-type cartridge provides me with more options than does a less-powerful cartridge. During the times I am carrying a less-powerful weapon, I must be mindful of its limitations. (I am not saying that I always carry a duty/service-type weapon.)
My car gun (Grand Power 9mm with hi cap mag) is a separate question from what I carry.
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