Which Mil. surp. rifle?

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TexAg

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Well I've been looking at certain military surplus rifles and copies there of and have been bitten by the gun buying bug again. The one that really caught my eye was the new Australian "Enfield" No.4 Mk4., but it seems those aren't readily available. However, that did get me looking at Enfields in general and I can get a #1 or #4 at www.mgsdfw.com for $150. I've also shot a friend's K31 and can get one for $140 at the same place. Now whatever I get I want to be a pretty good shooter right out of the box, I don't want to do alot of work on it immediately. I would also like to be able to use it for hunting (white tails, coyotes and pigs) and I don't reload yet, so the question of ammo comes up. I see that Wolf will be importing some SP .303 but the only 7.5 Swiss is FMJ it seems. I'd definitely prefer to hunt with SP, but I wouldn't knock shooting a pig or coyote with 7.5 Swiss FMJ either necessarily. I've heard great things about the Swiss, but not as much about Enfields as far as accuracy and quality.
Anyone care to educate me a little farther on some plusses or minuses of these rifles and whether there are some other fairly cheap milsurp rifles that would fit the good bang for the buck quality I am looking for (that also have some decent ammo and ammo choice available)?
 
I've hunted with a No4Mk1 for several years and have been quite happy. In stock form, its a fine hunting rifle. Take off the military furniture and put on a Boyds stock and you'd be surprised at how well it carries and feels. My primary No4Mk1 (scoped) is a MOA rifle with select handloads, 1 1/2" groups otherwise. My brush Enfield is no less accurate but sports the stock iron sights.

The 303 British round has all the power you need, and commercial ammo is available in both 150gr and 180gr hunting loadings.
 
The K31 will most likely be more accurate. However, both the Swiss rifle and the Enfield shoot rounds that are not that cheap when it comes to surplus ammo. Look for something chambered in 8x57 or 7.62x54r.

At the prices that milsurp rifles go for I'd just get them all! Or at least just the K31 and like a Mosin Nagant of some sort. K31's and MN's sell for less than $100 in my area. I've seen 70 rounds of surplus Turk 8mm ammo sell for $5.
 
I shoot a longbranch made enfield no4 mk1, blued like american guns, and a swede mauser in 6.5x55 easly the most accurate gun I have ever owned.
 
Both the Enfield and the K31 are good buys. But why say, "I don't reload?" Reloading isn't that hard, and it doesn't cost that much to get into it.

You can get a basic reloading kit (I recommend the Lee handpress kit) for $24.99. It has everything you need to get started. You can get them from MidwayUSA. www.midwayusa.com

Later on, you may want more equipment as you gain experience, but with the price of 7.5mm Swiss, your Lee kit will pay for itself pronto.
 
For target accuracy, the Swiss K31 or a Swedish M1896 Mauser in 6.5mm.
For hunting I'd choose the Lee-Enfield, since ammo. makers offer a good variety of soft point hunting loads in .303 Brit.
JT
 
I am not familiar with the swiss rifle, i cant recomend the lee enfield highly enough however. I love my enfields. I have successfully brought down every type of big game in north america with a lee enfield except a grizzly. I have a closet full of fancy guns and i probably shoot my longbranch No.4 Mk.1 more than any other rifle I own. In my most humble opinion it has the sweetest action of any of my bolt action rifles. :D
 
keep it coming

First, thanks for the replies and info!

Vern: I said I don't reload yet! I plan on getting a Lee Loader for X-mas, probably for .45Colt first, then we'll see where I go from there.

For some reason I haven't been much interested in the 8mm Mausers, but if ya'll think they are better for some reason or another, please enlighten me.
I am less concerned with the price/availablity of mil. surp. ammo than I am about new commercially produced ammo, esp. of the hunting variety.
I've heard the Enfield action is quite smooth, but I have also expereinced the straight pull of the K31 and admit that its very nice!
Please keep the info coming.
 
I like Model 98 Mausers myself. They can be had in unissued condition for under $150 in some places (I gave $139 for one a couple of years ago). They can be found in .308 caliber (Chilean M12/61 and some Israelis) and Belgians can be found originally chambered in 30-06 calibers. The M98 in a common caliber like that is really hard to beat.

They also have an aboslutely unmeasurable number of aftermarket accessories avaialble to turn them into whatever configuration you could ever desire. Stocks, barrels, safeties, scope mounts, trigger groups and on and on.

Really fun toys! Good luck.
 
I said I don't reload yet! I plan on getting a Lee Loader for X-mas, probably for .45Colt first, then we'll see where I go from there.
Click to expand...

I strongly recommend the hand press kit. It's more versatile -- you merely need to get another die set to load another caliber. It also produces a better product. The cost difference isn't that much.
 
Hey that hand press looks nice and has great reviews. I had no idea you could reload that cheap, I thought setups started over 100 bucks. Now I want to reload for my K31! What else do you need? Primers, powder, bullets, and dies... right? I see lots of 7.5 dies listed on Midway, which one is recommended?
 
I thought setups started over 100 bucks.
Click to expand...

It will still cost you about $100 no matter how you look at it....

Hand press or lee challenger press $25
Dies $25
1 lb powder $20
100 hunting bullets $12-15
Reloading manual $20-50 (lee dies come with a load sheet, but its good to get a reloading manual right from the start)
Lee powder scale $19


....but not too much over a $100 if you don't get too fancy, and it will pay for itself if you shoot more than 2 boxes of sheels per year.
 
Reloading manual $20-50 (lee dies come with a load sheet, but its good to get a reloading manual right from the start)
Lee powder scale $19
Click to expand...

Both good ideas, but you can use the data sheet and dipper that comes with the dies for your first reloading ventures. The instructions with the dies is easy to follow and takes you right through the reloading process.

I have a kid in my catechism class who has a .223 rifle, and no ammo. I had a ton of .223 brass, and no rifle. I ordered a Lee Pacesetter die set, and loaded several hundred rounds for him -- just using the data sheet and dipper set. I was impressed with the accuracy of those reloads.
 
not sure Hornady loads 7.5 swiss anymore, they don't have it on their website.
 
If you want an Enfield www.aimsurplus.com has the No. 1 Mark 3's "shooters" for $79. That's the cheapest I've seen the Enfields. They also have a great deal on SKS's at the moment. As for what I think of the K31, 8 months ago I had 0 of them, now between me and my father we've racked up 9 of em'. :D The market is about to dry up on them, so if you want one better belly up the cash soon.
 
A summary:

SMLE'S:
Generally accurate, but few are tack drivers without work--the stock is a problem.
Ammo isn't as plentiful as it once was, but can be found with legwork.
Some carbines

Soviet Mosins:
Very inexpensive
Ammo both ball and modern production is available
Not too accurate out of the box, sometimes insane
Lots of carbines

Finnish Mosins:
Somewhat more expensive than Soviet
Ammo same as soviet Mosins
Good to excellent accuracy out of the box
Very few carbines

Turkish Mausers:
Very cheap
Ball ammo still available, modern production can be hard to find, but getting better
Fair accuracy out of the box

Czech Mausers:
Fairly cheap
Same ammo as Turks
Good accuracy out of the box, can be made MOA with modifcations

Yugo Mausers
Still quite cheap
Same ammo as other Mausers
Fair accuracy, and can be improved.
Intermediate length action on M-48's can make aftermarket upgrades tricky.

K-31's
Very cheap
Ball expensive but very good, modern production hard to find.
Excellent accuracy
 
Hornady and Grafs teamed up to produce this load, as they've done with some others, and it's only available from Grafs.
Click to expand...
Let's hope that it's of better quality than their 7x57 brass - I have 500 cases that I can't use because they didn't manage to get the extractor groove domensions correct... :cuss:
 
One drawback to hunting with the K31 - you can't quietly chamber and lock a round, like you can with a bolt gun. You gotta pretty much slam the bolt home, so it's a little noisy, like loading a Garand. It's easy to quietly move the "safety", so that partly compensates for the noisy chambering.

Nice accurate gun. I haven't shot the "real" ammo, just my reloads, Win284 brass, .308 bullets.

Regards.
 
I have a #4 Mk.1 in an Advanced Technologies stock for a utility rifle. Not fancy, but definitely serviceable and will do anything an iron sighted rifle should do.

A caution on prospective reloading for the .303 British. It's "different". Short version is that the chambers are usually very generous and headspace ample. Not a problem per se but with full length resizing the cases get worked very hard and it's not at all unusual to get head separations on even the second loading.

The basic remedy is to neck size only. Check out a site called the ".303 Page". The seemingly primitive old Lee Loader that you whack with a hammer does very well (although I prefer an alternate mode of priming). Once the case is fireformed you're good to go for a while. FL resize as necessary (every 3rd-4th firing?). I have gotten 8 firing out of good brass which is good enough for me. I use 34 grains 4895 with a 150 gr. Speer SP and the combination shoots better than I do.

A few years ago one of the surplus outfits was selling this exact setup for $100. I bought two to augment the one I made up on my own. Unfortunately one had a bad barrel and between not being able to find a better one and the economics of putting a new one on a $100 rifle it just sits. But that certainly doesn't invalidate the idea.

Nothing wrong with a good Mauser, but the temptation is always there to go the rest of the way and make it a nice sporter. Built up a nice '06 for my son on a 1909 Argentine which turned out nicely--but I also could have bought a Model 70 or Remington 700 and been money ahead.

That's why I don't lay in a few Mausers. I know where I'll wind up.
 
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