chicharrones
needs more ammo
Prices came down not too long after the AWB expired and let the modern AR loose upon the land. Of course, the gun-flation-demic has changed that.
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Which PCC?
- Thread starter Ironhand54
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Prices came down not too long after the AWB expired and let the modern AR loose upon the land. Of course, the gun-flation-demic has changed that.
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NIGHTLORD40K
Member
$600 is almost reasonable for a CX, IMO- but at $800+ tax and stuff, no way!
Id love to grab up a Scorpion 2 as well, but $1200 is just too steep. If they ever get back down under a grand, perhaps.
My shop had them for $599 and they were a tough sell. They had them mis-marked for $499 for almost a week and nobody bought one. Between the looks and the cheap ARs they were not good sellers and were discontinued. I am surprised they brought them back truth be told and don't expect them to sell well at current prices. They're good guns though.
Idahou
Member
Wait, you mean reall Scorpion 2 as Scorpion 61 in 9mm Luger?
chicharrones
needs more ammo
I'll assume you mean the CX4? Yeah, the styling is unconventional and a bit unfortunate considering how good the gun is otherwise. The outward design is probably why most folks don't want to ask the gun counter clerk to pull it off the back rack for a close up inspection.
From what I've read, the CX4 has always been made in batches, which makes it come and go in the USA. Looking at some of the poly molding changes around the safety, it would appear that the current model is at least a 3rd gen version.
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Sorry I was referring to the CX4.
[QUOTE="chicharrones,]The outward design is probably why most folks don't want to ask the gun counter clerk to pull it off the back rack for a close up inspection.[/QUOTE]
I think you hit the nail on the head. The CX4 is a love it / hate it gun looks wise but nobody ever complains about how it shoots.
[QUOTE="chicharrones,]The outward design is probably why most folks don't want to ask the gun counter clerk to pull it off the back rack for a close up inspection.[/QUOTE]
I think you hit the nail on the head. The CX4 is a love it / hate it gun looks wise but nobody ever complains about how it shoots.
BlueHeelerFl
Member
Strange, every time I hit the range with the CX4 I always get positive comments on its looks.
Idahou
Member
I like that look a lot, also technical design with magwell in grip is my preference and i want CX4 for quite a long time... but no folding stock, overall lenght, price, fact that mags arent compatible with my APX (which means i would had to buy 92 or PX4 to match it 
) and limited use of PCC just keeps me away
) and limited use of PCC just keeps me awayMadcap_Magician
Member
My Sig MPX is the rare gas-operated 9mm carbine, but they are not inexpensive...
Terry G
Member
I guess this is out of the question.
theotherwaldo
Member
What choo mean, out of the question?
I LIKE my Suomi!
Of course, I like my Hi-Points, too... .
I LIKE my Suomi!
Of course, I like my Hi-Points, too... .
Terry G
Member
You ever try dragging that thing around in the woods with a full drum magazine? God, I had flash backs of humping an M-60 Machine gun again. Loading the drum magazine was an adventure also. Lose a finger if your not careful!. I sold mine at a ridiculously high price. The guy was practically tearing his pant's off to get his wallet out.
Spug
Member
I've got the 9mm CX4, a PC9 with the shrouded barrel, a Rossi 92 in 357, and a Hi-Point in .45.
As much as I really want a carbine in .45 ACP the Hi Point just doesn't do it for me because it doesn't feel good to hold or shoot. Being a lefty probably has a bit to do with this, but it feels cheap, large, heavy, with cumbersome controls and a trigger which -- unique to all the guns I own -- digs straight into the pad of my index finger.
I used to think the CX4 was horrifically ugly, but when I picked it up and shouldered it I was pleased right away and bought it on the spot. Now my thoughts have evolved and I feel like beauty is as beauty does and I actually think it is quite attractively styled. It definitely doesn't feel cheap or flimsy at all to me, except perhaps for the little section of rail that is supposed to pop out from the front of the stock. The new Berettas in their field dark earth or whatever it is called look arguably even nicer than the all-black one I have. If I didn't already have one I would probably buy a newer one. The price just is what it is. I'd say pick it up and shoulder it and if you fall in love there's your answer.
The Ruger is much heavier and bulkier, and feels much more like a rifle than the short, almost submachinegun-like CX4. Heavier than it ought to be, but it is also obviously a quality firearm and shoots great and I don't regret my purchase at all. It's got nice winged ghost-ring sights. I got the shrouded barrel because I just did, but wouldn't turn up my nose at the standard-stocked one either.
Haven't tricked either of these out with red dots or flashlights but both carbines will probably end up with them eventually. I'd really like to upgrade the CX-4 with Sierra Papa too.
The Rossi '92 clone is great too. Really slim and a delight to hold and shoot. Mine is one of the newer ones made by CBC, and seems very nicely made. .357 so I can choose whatever I want for my handloads. No plans for lights or red dots on that one. Even the buckhorn sights are OK for now.
As much as I really want a carbine in .45 ACP the Hi Point just doesn't do it for me because it doesn't feel good to hold or shoot. Being a lefty probably has a bit to do with this, but it feels cheap, large, heavy, with cumbersome controls and a trigger which -- unique to all the guns I own -- digs straight into the pad of my index finger.
I used to think the CX4 was horrifically ugly, but when I picked it up and shouldered it I was pleased right away and bought it on the spot. Now my thoughts have evolved and I feel like beauty is as beauty does and I actually think it is quite attractively styled. It definitely doesn't feel cheap or flimsy at all to me, except perhaps for the little section of rail that is supposed to pop out from the front of the stock. The new Berettas in their field dark earth or whatever it is called look arguably even nicer than the all-black one I have. If I didn't already have one I would probably buy a newer one. The price just is what it is. I'd say pick it up and shoulder it and if you fall in love there's your answer.
The Ruger is much heavier and bulkier, and feels much more like a rifle than the short, almost submachinegun-like CX4. Heavier than it ought to be, but it is also obviously a quality firearm and shoots great and I don't regret my purchase at all. It's got nice winged ghost-ring sights. I got the shrouded barrel because I just did, but wouldn't turn up my nose at the standard-stocked one either.
Haven't tricked either of these out with red dots or flashlights but both carbines will probably end up with them eventually. I'd really like to upgrade the CX-4 with Sierra Papa too.
The Rossi '92 clone is great too. Really slim and a delight to hold and shoot. Mine is one of the newer ones made by CBC, and seems very nicely made. .357 so I can choose whatever I want for my handloads. No plans for lights or red dots on that one. Even the buckhorn sights are OK for now.
theotherwaldo
Member
-That's why I usually use the stick mags.
The drum rarely leaves the house.
LiveLife
Member
When I ventured into PCC during previous "Great Ammunition/Component Shortage" where 22LR costed same as I could reload 9mm (Around $5-$6/50 rounds), I went through the following:
- I started out with mag block using 9mm stick magazines and found plastic Pro Mag block to be JUNK as thin sides flexed/bent after short use but found PSA metal mag blocks to be GOOD.
- With carbine length recoil spring, you want around 20-22 oz or more combined bolt/buffer weight to reduce harsh recoil impulse (9mm bolt weight averages around 15 oz and H3 buffer 5.4 oz) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...rts-did-you-use-and-why.825314/#post-10623572
- I then chose Just Right carbine as modular design allowed conversion swap between 9mm/40S&W/45ACP and use of Glock/M&P/1911 magazines that allowed left/right ejection. Glock mag wells feed reliably and 1:16 barrel twist rate out of 17" barrels produce greater accuracy than 1:10 twist barrels.
- I built several 9mm 16" PCCs using PSA 1:10 twist barrel uppers and PSA Hybrid 9mm bolt and they have been reliable.
- Recently I have been using ARs with 9mm Endo Mag kits inside MagPul Pmags and while feeding from magazine hasn't been 100%, if you already have an AR, it's a neat and simple conversion option to shoot 9mm by simply swapping upper (Endo Mag kit video in link) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/suggestions-for-cheap-pcc-build.864119/#post-11402935
- Another option for AR is use of CMMG 22LR conversion bolt that allows you to shoot 22LR in your ARs with 22LR magazines. (I only shoot copper plated/washed RN/HP ammunition with CMMG bolt) If you want greater accuracy, you can go with dedicated 22LR 1:16 twist barrel upper. Use of CMMG conversion bolt allows same manual of arms shooting drills at MUCH LOWER COST compared to .223/9mm. If you reload 9mm, it's a no brainer to save money over loading .223.
I found blow back action of PCCs to benefit from faster burning powders to seal case neck better with chamber and more complete powder burn before bolt/buffer moves back from recoil leaking gas. (BTW, if bolt/buffer moves back too early/fast from too light of combined bolt/buffer weight, you will have incomplete powder burn and gas leakage that can bulge case base out of battery and rupture)
They make "lefty" AR upper receivers and platforms like Just Right carbine are "ambi" for right/left side ejection.
FYI, I found faster burning than W231/HP-38 to produce less sooty/black spent cases than BE-86/WSF and slower burning powders with greater accuracy produced by even faster burning Red Dot/Promo in my testing (My ongoing PCC load accuracy testing at link) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...endence-from-work.853305/page-4#post-11387109
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