So, did ARs kill the (non-AR) PCCs?

[Skribs]

Might be it dcarch. Wish they had pictures instead of the video (or in addition to).

 

[trickyasafox]

I love ARs and PCCs- So I bought an Oly 9mm AR upper. Mine has been stone reliable and has been great fun to shoot. being in NYS, I only have access to pre-ban modded sten mags, and can't bring myself to cut one down. That being said, if I could find a 10 or 20 round modded sten mag, it would be my go-to rifle in a heart beat. Super low recoil, accurate, reliable, and adequately powered for most jobs, the PCC has a place for a lot of applications.

 

[Skribs]

Since we're on the subject, if I got a 9mm AR-15, what all parts would I need in order to convert it to a 5.56mm AR?

 

[R.W.Dale]

For me outside of scoped hunting there just isn't really much a pcc does that I can't to with the pistol itself. In a full sized handgun I can make and maintain surprisingly accurate fire out to 100yds beyond wich a real rifle comes into its own.

IMO the glock 17 did as much to kill the pcc as the ebr. Before wich an accurate handgun weighed as much as a 1911 or a service revolver

My carbine pistol combo is a TC encore and a s&w 386 in 357max/mag as purely a cost logistical exercise.






posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about

 

[dcarch]

Hey Skribs, here's a Gunblast review of the JRC 9mm. http://www.gunblast.com/ATI-JRCarbine.htm
It does have some videos and more detailed pictures attached, if that helps!

 

[Kurt_D]

PCC is quieter than a 5.56 AR at equal barrel lengths and since pistol ammo is designed to work at lower velocities in short barrels, their effectiveness doesn't suffer like some 5.56 in SBRs (sub-14.5" barrels). Many PCC can use subsonic ammo and reduce the noise even more. Throw a suppressor in the mix and the PCC really shines.

They have a place: wanting to use light or no hearing protection, avoid disturbing the neighbors, slightly less expensive ammo, and up close pest control.

 

[Rexster]

On an industry-wide level, yes, the increasing acceptance and availability of the AR15 probably did largely kill off the PCC market.

On a personal level, I am not really fond of the AR, but my pair of Mini-14 rifles, plus the household Winchester '94, displaced my pair of Marlin 1894C lever rifles, and eliminated any practical need for a PCC. My wife and sister-in-law do like their Marlin and Rossi .357 lever rifles, but much as I like the .357 in my revolvers, shoving those little cartridges through a loading gate is neither fun nor efficent, and I would rather fire something longer-range through a rifle. .30-30 cartridges are much handier when loading a lever rifle through a loading gate.

Another factor at play in my personal situation is that I am subject to PD firearms rules 24/7, so off-the-clock SD/HD with a long gun is going to be accomplished with an 870P
shotgun, except under the most exigent circumstances. This would relegate a PCC to being a mere range toy, making it even harder to justify the price of the ones I find interesting.

I did own a PCC in the early 1980s, an Uzi Carbine, which was quite fun, indeed. Someday, I might try to own one again, for nostalgic reasons.

 

[M1key]

Wait. Did I hear someone mention 10mmmm?

M

 

[mdauben]

But the massive proliferation of ARs seems to have killed the great experiment in PCCs. Perhaps this is evolution and I'm a luddite when it comes to ARs.

The "assault rifle" in general certainly killed the submachine gun (pistol caliber, fully automatic) but I'm not sure it has really had that great an impact on civilian pistol-caliber carbines. Even before the explosion of AR popularity in the last few years, with the possible exception of lever action actions, the pistol caliber carbine never really seemed to catch on. Semiauto PCCs from Marlin and Ruger came and went, and even currently available PCCs from makers like Beretta and Kel-Tec seem to be nitch offerings without any real wide spread appeal.

 

[Skribs]

Mdauben, I think the reason theirs aren't met with much approval is because they are fairly unique. One thing I've learned is that if something is popular, it makes it more popular. This is because there's more support from trainers, gunsmiths, third party manufacturers, and reviewers. So if it is essentially an AR, there are a lot more people who know what to do to help you train with, fix, or upgrade the weapon. With a unique PCC, you're probably going to have to go only through the manufacturer.

 

[mdauben]

One thing I've learned is that if something is popular, it makes it more popular.

Its sort of a viscious circle, guns generally develop large aftermarket support becasuse they are popular (offering a larger market for the aftermarket parts), and when there's a large aftermarket it tends to make guns even more popular. I think the Ruger 10/22 is a great example of this aftermarket feeding on popularity feeding on aftermarket... round and round.

 

[Skribs]

Yep, and as part of that vicious circle, if something isn't popular, then it doesn't get more popular, because it isn't popular. There's one cartridge that I've heard "more manufacturers would make firearms chambered for it if it was more popular" and "more people would buy it if it was available from more manufacturers."

I've seen the effects of this in terms of:
Caliber Wars (get .223 instead of 6.8 because .223 is more common)
Glock vs. Other PFSF (Glock has a longer track record than M&P or XDm)
AR-15 vs. Other Rifle

And many more.