Which S.A. Army to buy.....

[yugorpk]

but guys what I am getting to is why waste money on a name when like myself I found a very nice revolver that shoots super good and does the same thing as the name brand! I can tell you this that this pistol is way nicer than the 22c pistols they make I mean way nicer plus the fit and finish is just great and I like the deep bluing. you know i'm not trying to make anyone mad or anything i'm just sayin this gun does the exact same thing as the colt does!

Its not a Colt. You cant compare on functionality otherwise you'd buy 3 Glocks for what that obsolete 6 shooter that isnt safe to carry with more than 5 rounds costs. You are paying for the name and the case hardening and bluing and historical value. If Colt actually goes belly up at some point in the future when the military contracts slow to a crawl or AR-15's get legislated out of business the value of these things will go up more than seems reasonable. Don't expect buying these to make sense from a practical standpoint.

 

[CraigC]

The market says otherwise, new .45 SAAs are selling for more than that did.

As far as I can tell, you don't have a clue w hat the market says. When did you start paying attention to all this, six months ago? Judging by your past posts such as:

"I've got one SA .45, and while it is an interesting historical piece, I'll probably be selling it. I want my guns to be useful in a SHTF situation."

And the fact that you don't reload and think the SAA is a joke for self defense, I'd say you don't have enough interest in them to be much of an authority on the subject at all.

No it isn't, you're speculating on something happening that hasn't so far.

I'm not a scientist or an economist but I would say the chances of getting enough rain to grow tomatoes in any desert is exponentially lower than that for a company to respond to a market need.

And failed financially doing it I assume, or they wouldn't have pulled out of the SAA market.

A little information goes a long way. USFA stopped making revolvers because that's what president Doug Donnelly wanted to do. You see, those of us who have more than a passing interesting in single actions know these things.

We disagree.

I gave you two recent examples without even trying hard, not to mention the .38-40 of my own.

Of course it will, what do you know about that five year old gun? How it was stored?

Utter nonsense and further proof of your lack of knowledge on the subject.

So what, yugorpk and I aren't talking about previously owned .44 specials.

Three pages later, we have finally figured that out. The fact remains, one who knows what they're looking for can easily discern an unfired sample from a fired sample. One might notice that there are zero signs of wear in the bolt notch leedes on that particular gun.

And you can win the lottery too.

Sure but the odds of finding a reasonable SAA are far higher. The examples I gave being proof. I even forgot about the NIB 2nd generation 7½" .45Colt that I let get away. It was $1300.

 

[CraigC]

but guys what I am getting to is why waste money on a name

I have 40 single action revolvers ranging from Uberti's and Pietta's to Colt's, USFA's, S&W's and $5000 custom Rugers. When I buy a Colt or USFA over a lower priced replica, I'm buying a better gun. Everything about a Colt or USFA (to a greater extent) is better than any other SAA replica. Better materials, better workmanship, better fit & finish, etc.. While quite often an Italian replica is good enough (18 revolvers, 2 rifles), sometimes it isn't.

 

[Paul7]

As far as I can tell, you don't have a clue w hat the market says. When did you start paying attention to all this, six months ago? Judging by your past posts such as:

"I've got one SA .45, and while it is an interesting historical piece, I'll probably be selling it. I want my guns to be useful in a SHTF situation."

Yes, an Uberti I used to have. So what?

And the fact that you don't reload

Maybe I can afford not to. I'm a believer to never do anything yourself that you can get others to do better than you can. It's a fact more kabooms happen with reloads, even Edward Janis at Peacemaker Specialists once had one of his reloads blow up a friend's 1st gen. Colt SAA.

and think the SAA is a joke for self defense,

Along with Col. Jeff Cooper, no doubt you know more than him. The dumbest gang-banger with an automatic can reload faster than Bob Munden. I don't want to die for the sake of nostalgia.

I'd say you don't have enough interest in them to be much of an authority on the subject at all.

Says the guy who took three pages to figure out the plain meaning of a sentence.

I'm not a scientist or an economist but I would say the chances of getting enough rain to grow tomatoes in any desert is exponentially lower than that for a company to respond to a market need.

You miss the point, to say something could happen is irrelevant to what is.

A little information goes a long way. USFA stopped making revolvers because that's what president Doug Donnelly wanted to do. You see, those of us who have more than a passing interesting in single actions know these things.

I've heard that, what does that have to do with them being out of business now? If it's such a gold mine why no takers?

I gave you two recent examples without even trying hard, not to mention the .38-40 of my own.

No you didn't, are you going back to being dense again? We're talking about new production .45 Colt SAAs.

Utter nonsense and further proof of your lack of knowledge on the subject.

What's utter nonsense is saying a previously owned gun will sell for the same as the same new production. It isn't like wine, I'm talking 3rd gen. just to clarify before you say 1st gen. are worth more.

Three pages later, we have finally figured that out.

What took you so long?

The fact remains, one who knows what they're looking for can easily discern an unfired sample from a fired sample. One might notice that there are zero signs of wear in the bolt notch leedes on that particular gun.

Still would rather have a new production gun, that is covered by warranty.

Sure but the odds of finding a reasonable SAA are far higher. The examples I gave being proof. I even forgot about the NIB 2nd generation 7½" .45Colt that I let get away. It was $1300.

Recently? I just passed on a 1967 2nd generation with a corroded hammer and front strap and ugly plastic fake stag grips that went for more than that. Anyway, we're talking about new production Colt SAA .45s. You've finally conceded they can't be had anymore for $1,200 so I think we're done.

 

[CraigC]

Yes, an Uberti I used to have. So what?

No interest = little knowledge = little to offer to this discussion.

Maybe I can afford not to. I'm a believer to never do anything yourself that you can get others to do better than you can. It's a fact more kabooms happen with reloads, even Edward Janis at Peacemaker Specialists once had one of his reloads blow up a friend's 1st gen. Colt SAA.

Your ignorance is glaring. Firstly, carefully assembled handloads are not second fiddle to factory fodder. No, I take the no handloading to equal a low level of commitment to shooting.

Really, that old excuse?

Along with Col. Jeff Cooper, no doubt you know more than him. The dumbest gang-banger with an automatic can reload faster than Bob Munden. I don't want to die for the sake of nostalgia.

Given your resume', that means less than nothing. If you actually did enough shooting with single actions to warrant handloading, you might have some skill and your opinion might carry some weight.

Says the guy who took three pages to figure out the plain meaning of a sentence.

Yes, three pages for you two guys to say you didn't mean new Colt SAA's, you actually meant new-production 4¾" .45's.

No you didn't, are you going back to being dense again? We're talking about new production .45 Colt SAAs.

Yes, I did, before you two clarified what you actually meant, versus what you said.

I've heard that, what does that have to do with them being out of business now? If it's such a gold mine why no takers?

It's a response to your irrelevant point. The point being, just like the current rimfire ammo shortage, it is a temporary thing. Or did you sleep through economics class?

What's utter nonsense is saying a previously owned gun will sell for the same as the same new production. It isn't like wine, I'm talking 3rd gen. just to clarify before you say 1st gen. are worth more.

You ignorance is glaring again. More proof that you don't know what you're talking about.

Still would rather have a new production gun, that is covered by warranty.

Now I'm actually laughing out loud.

Recently? I just passed on a 1967 2nd generation with a corroded hammer and front strap and ugly plastic fake stag grips that went for more than that. Anyway, we're talking about new production Colt SAA .45s.

Three or four months ago. And that 2nd generation would be a better investment than ANY 3rd. You would know that if you had a clue.

 

[midland man]

first off lol talking about reloads well I've been reloading for over 20 years with no problems and so first off I have had brand new 22lr ammo blow up right out of the box! infact I have even seen other people who had factory ammo blow up and some badly injured some even got killed!! so it all really depends on one thing alertness and payin attention!! I do not have distractions when I am reloading and phones are turned off while doing so! but don't make the mistake of believing new factory ammo dosent blow up as it has happened! and another thing yeah that colt maybe be supposedly better don't see how when the same steel wood materials are used to make this same gun but much cheaper! infact the main reason stuff made in good ol'e usa is higher due to labor number one! number two is all the government red tape and insurance lawsuits ect! so that's why usa made stuff is way higher in costs! so while I am far from rich and maybe not well to do I am proud of heritage making a very fine revolver that I can afford and shoot just as well as that higher priced gun!! infact it'll still kill that deer hog paper just the same!!

 

[Paul7]

No interest = little knowledge = little to offer to this discussion.

Pot, meet kettle.

Your ignorance is glaring. Firstly, carefully assembled handloads are not second fiddle to factory fodder. No, I take the no handloading to equal a low level of commitment to shooting.

I don't care what you think, if Edward Janis can muff a reload so can you.

Given your resume', that means less than nothing.

What does Col. Jeff Cooper's opinion have to do with me?

If you actually did enough shooting with single actions to warrant handloading, you might have some skill and your opinion might carry some weight.

I don't care how much you shoot, you're a dead man getting in a gunfight with a guy with a Glock. See any police departments or military carrying a SAA? Why do I have to explain the obvious to you?

Yes, three pages for you two guys to say you didn't mean new Colt SAA's, you actually meant new-production 4¾" .45's.

We said it back on the first page, sorry I overestimated your intelligence. Again, MSRP and a several year waiting period mean new. You seem to be the only one on this thread confused about that.

Yes, I did, before you two clarified what you actually meant, versus what you said.

What I meant and what I said is the same.

It's a response to your irrelevant point. The point being, just like the current rimfire ammo shortage, it is a temporary thing. Or did you sleep through economics class?

You might have a point if half the rimfire manufacturers went under. How exactly do you know the rising Colt SAA prices are a temporary thing?

You ignorance is glaring again. More proof that you don't know what you're talking about.

Pot, meet kettle.

Now I'm actually laughing out loud.

You don't care about having a warranty, that's your business. Most people would rather have one if given a choice.

Three or four months ago. And that 2nd generation would be a better investment than ANY 3rd. You would know that if you had a clue.

Your blather is irrelevant to the subject of prices of new production Colt SAAs. And the market says you're wrong about that corroded plastic-gripped 2nd gen., it went for $1,350, way less than new production guns go for now.

 

[Dave T]

Is there any chance this peeing contest could be taken to e-mails or at least PMs. I'm interested in the thread's subject but several pages of this crap is really getting old, from both of you guys.

Dave

 

[midland man]

I'm stating the flat facts like I said why spend a million dollars on something when $400 dollars will get the same results!! I am glad that heritage is making the big bore series 45 colt revolvers and I and super happy with mine but it baffles me as to why people blow money on a name in which is overkill in my mind so if your going to hunt,plink,or have for a trail gun or home defense then whats wrong with a reasonable pistol that costs much less that will do all you need??

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

The 2014 market and the 2016 market are not the same thing. You were coming off USFA's meltdown and Colt was just easing into their bankruptcy proceedings. The current market is much tighter. The demand is still there and Colt is still building guns but not anywhere near demand. You can certainly still buy a Ruger or a somewhat close Italian copy but if you want a new US made original style SAA you are fighting the supply and demand curve.

Actually...for Colt SAA's, there's little appreciable difference between then and now. I've been watching.

 

[yugorpk]

You arent going to get a NIB 2016 Colt .45 SAA, even with the 5.5" barrel, in 2016 for $1200 so yes, the pricing has changed quite a bit.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

No, it hasn't changed "quite a bit". The prices are about the same now as they were two years ago. It just takes some looking to find one...just as it did then.

I ought to know...I was looking for more than a year before I found one at the price I was willing to pay. This is known as a "good deal".

 

[yugorpk]

Yeah, it has changed quite a bit. Ive been following the market pretty close for a good two years after I decided to buy a new 4 3/4 45 C SAA. Using that as a standard because thats what I was looking for the market seems to have peaked about a year ago and really hasnt dropped much since. Off calibers and especially longer barrel lengths are going to be easier to find . A good deal statistical flyer might pop up every now and then to be sure. I just bought two used/worn USFA Rodeos for only 60% over their new price and I feel good about that but the more in demand Colts are still cresting.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

If it's "changed quite a bit" in the last two years, then why are the prices for Colt SAA's virtually identical to all those at the time I was shopping around for what I was looking for?

 

[yugorpk]

I dont know what prices you are looking at. MSRP hasnt changed at all but you can't actually buy one at $1500 MSRP . Nothing actually sells for that. 2 years ago the same 4 3/4" SAA in 45 Colt was in the $1600 range. More in the $1800-$2000 range street price now.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I'm looking at the same prices in the same places, mostly Gunbroker for the online source.

Much as it was then...the SAME price ranges, higher for engraved, commemorative, blah, blah, blah...

But I had my budget and my patience and found what I was looking for eventually.

Colt SAA's have been running in this price range for a while, and their prices, while increasing some amount over time, just ain't making any leaps and bounds over any given year, or few years. They're a LOT of them, and they're still being made.

Third generation Colt SAA's, while expensive, aren't skyrocketing from year to year because of this.

 

[Paul7]

I'm looking at the same prices in the same places, mostly Gunbroker for the online source.

Much as it was then...the SAME price ranges, higher for engraved, commemorative, blah, blah, blah...

But I had my budget and my patience and found what I was looking for eventually.

Colt SAA's have been running in this price range for a while, and their prices, while increasing some amount over time, just ain't making any leaps and bounds over any given year, or few years. They're a LOT of them, and they're still being made.

Third generation Colt SAA's, while expensive, aren't skyrocketing from year to year because of this.

You're not going to find new ones on the $1,200 range anymore as you could a few years ago. Many seem to be going for $1,800 ish, which is a 50% increase. A fluky good deal isn't normative.

 

[Paul7]

I'm stating the flat facts like I said why spend a million dollars on something when $400 dollars will get the same results!! I am glad that heritage is making the big bore series 45 colt revolvers and I and super happy with mine but it baffles me as to why people blow money on a name in which is overkill in my mind so if your going to hunt,plink,or have for a trail gun or home defense then whats wrong with a reasonable pistol that costs much less that will do all you need??

If it makes you happy then nothing is wrong with it, but the Colt is a better made gun, better than two Uberti's I used to own. If you haven't owned a Colt it's kind of hard for you to compare. All depends on your budget.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

You're not going to find new ones on the $1,200 range anymore as you could a few years ago. Many seem to be going for $1,800 ish, which is a 50% increase. A fluky good deal isn't normative.

I know it was a very good deal. But honestly...the going prices I'm seeing now aren't all that different than the going prices two years ago.

And even if they were...the price fluctuations could easily be attributed to other market factors other than a simple value increase caused by time. They could be politically driven, for example, and those prices tend to go up and down with time.

Whatever...I'm just not seeing a significant change, and I've been watching for a while. Mainly because I'm thinking about another in .357...

 

[midland man]

paul7 I have owned a colt one time it was a 357m revolver. a hiway patrolman owned it and I bought it from him! now it was a nice pistol indeed but I didn't see anything to rave about it, as it was finicky about certain loads it would shoot and was heavy and a bit clunky to me! so no I didn't see what all the fuss is about! I bet like most everyone is judging this heritage big bore against their 22 counterparts and I can honestly say that the 22 pistols they make are cheap looking! but I strongly stand on this that their big bore series are very nice not clunky at all and have a very nice fit and finish way above their 22 pistols will ever be! so I bet paul7 you or most on here haven't even went and looked at these heritage big bore models in person and until you do and put one in your hand and work the action, you will not appreciate the quality I am talking about!

 

[yugorpk]

If someone offered me

a. Top of the line nickel plated diamond encrusted Italian SAA clone for $500 or

B. A Colt SAA that looked like it got dragged behind a truck , soaked in blood from a suicide with a ruined finish and the timing was way out of whack in a caliber I didnt want but I knew I could rebuild it as I wanted for $900 for the base gun ( I just described my 2nd gen ) ....

Guess which one I'd take. Hint...Its the Colt.

 

[Paul7]

paul7 I have owned a colt one time it was a 357m revolver. a hiway patrolman owned it and I bought it from him! now it was a nice pistol indeed but I didn't see anything to rave about it, as it was finicky about certain loads it would shoot and was heavy and a bit clunky to me! so no I didn't see what all the fuss is about!

The Colt Troopers (if that's what you're referring to) made after about 1969 are nothing special, the ones before that are really good, with a lot of hand work into them. I have a 1965 Trooper with an action as good as my Python.

I bet like most everyone is judging this heritage big bore against their 22 counterparts and I can honestly say that the 22 pistols they make are cheap looking! but I strongly stand on this that their big bore series are very nice not clunky at all and have a very nice fit and finish way above their 22 pistols will ever be! so I bet paul7 you or most on here haven't even went and looked at these heritage big bore models in person and until you do and put one in your hand and work the action, you will not appreciate the quality I am talking about!

Have you handled or shot a Colt SAA?

I first went through two Ubertis that people said were as good as Colt, the first was an antiqued Cattleman that literally shot itself apart after a few hundred cowboy rounds, the other was an El Patron with a couple sticky chambers, very difficult to get empties out of. And neither had a Pony on it. Like I said before, it comes down to budget, if someone is on a tight one with a family it would be irresponsible to spend $1,200+ on a more expensive gun. I don't know many people however who can afford a Colt who would rather have a Heritage.

 

[Hondo 60]

Uberti makes some great clones!
I have 3 total, just no pics of the recent additions.

 

[midland man]

well a $1200 gun dosent kill any better than a heritage will in the end as long as it will keep you safe and keep the family feed that's what matters most!

 

[Paul7]

well a $1200 gun dosent kill any better than a heritage will in the end as long as it will keep you safe and keep the family feed that's what matters most!

No doubt.