which scope to by

[dschflier]

I am new to this forum and new to long range shooting. I have just purchassed a savage arms 308 24" barrel Law enforcment series rifle.

I got this rifle so I can learn the art of medium tolong range shooting. I served in the Marines so I have experience with iron sights almost exclusively.

I am looking for advice on scopes that I will use for learning long range shooting and occaionally hunting if the situation presents itself.

All suggestions are welcome.

thanks,

David

 

[dschflier]

meant buy not by. I was a Marine not a writer.

 

[dschflier]

Any suggestions?

 

[Maverick223]

I have some questions myself...

What for (just target shooting I presume)?

What budget for said optics?

What additional features are you set on (target turrets, front focal plane, reticle design, adjustable objective, side focus, objective size, et cetera)?

What magnification would you like (fixed, variable, low, high, expansive range of power)?

Are there any other constraints (size, weight, et al)?

 

[mtlucas0311]

DEVIL DOG! "learn long range shooting"??? Either you or the many PMI's you encountered in the Marines need to be slapped! You have had some of the finest long range shooting instruction available! Just kidding, I'll guarantee you that you will get many, many people recommending you get a Leupold scope, and for good reason. But you do pay for that name too, others that I think are nice are Nikon and Bushnell. Neither are as nice as the Leupold's, but they don't cost as much either. I've got a Nikon Monarch on a 25-06 that I really like. My dad has bought Bushnell's of various flavors for years and they have always held up well. Get one with target turrets and maybe even mil dots if you like, that will be helpful as you shoot at different ranges in the field or on the range. Repeatability is much of what you pay for with the nice scopes, its not just clarity.

 

[MAX100]

Suggestions:


Very Good rings and base mount:

Burris XTR 30mm Low rings & EGW 20moa base - $100 for this setup

Tactical scopes with Mildot reticles & target turrets.

Millett TRS-1 4-16-50 Mildot - $325 - Good scope for the price

Falcon Menace 4-14x44 FFP - $400 - Good scope that setup in the first focal plane

Bushnell 4200 6-24-50 MD - $550 Very good scope for the money, nice glass and tactical turrets.

Sightron SIII 6-24X50 LR MD - $799 Excellent scope, ultra clear glass, nice positive click turrets, tracks very accurate. It's a heck of a deal.


GC

 

[BENELLIMONTE]

dsch'

I own BSA, Bushnells, Cabelas, Leupolds, Nikons, Simmons, Swarovskis, Tasco, Thompson Center & Zeiss scopes. For the money the best "value" scopes have been the the "Premium Guide series" and "Outfitter series" scopes by Cabelas. Overall best scope I own is the Swarovski Habicht 3x9x36 "A series" mounted on my Tikka T3 Lite Hunter in 270 Winchester. My old Leupold Vari X3s and Zeiss Diavari MC & VMV scopes are top picks also.
Th old adage in optics is you get what you pay for. So stay away from the "cheapos" and go with the respected names in the optics business.

 

[Pyro-Grafix]

What kinda ranges...............

What distance are ya gonna be shootin' with your Savage...I bought a used Savage FP110 tactical with a cheap Tasco "varminter" 1" tube, it was good for about 500yards...I upgraded to a Tasco "SuperSniper" 30mm tube,
10x42, longest shootin' was 700yds...traded it off and acquired an AR50, added a "NightForce" scope 30mm 6-24x56 np2r reticle, it was good for 1000yds and beyond...some hunting scopes don't have enough elevation adjustment for some distances, so you have to add MOA by way of custom rings or rails.....Happy Shootin'

 

[helz_mcfugly]

NightForce are great. I shot through a 18x one a savage .308. Its the clearest scope ive ever looked through at dusk.

 

[dschflier]

savage 10fcp-k 308

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and comments. I didn't realize anyone had responded. Other forums I am part of send e-mail notifications when someone responds, so I guess I was expecting that.

I picked up my savage arms Model 10FCP-K about 2 weeks ago. A short while before that Bass Pro shop outfitters had a Leopold scope on a sale for only $169. I picked this up while I determine which scope I want for longer range.
mtlucas: I hear you but I am not very familer with optics. I have been out of the Marines for about 15 years and when I was in I only recall using a scope once and it was a basic night vision scope.
I would like to eventually be able to shoot accurately out 1000 yards or even more. I will be signing up at the Quantico range and I am aware the range goes out that far.
I see the variety of scopes is huge. I would rather to not spend over $1000 dollars on the scope.
I would like mil dots for learning distance estimation
I think 1st focal plane would be better, but the bushnell 6500 looks good but is in the 2nd
A scope that allows a good amount of light in for good dusk and dawn shooting would also be good.

 

[Geno]

Check the Leupold VX-3, in 6.5-20 power. You are almost certain to need either a 20 or 30 MOA rail to get a .308 to 1,000 yards. Zak Smith is about my resident 1,000-yarder. PM him and ask. Also, check with Bullfrogken. He like to tink at those ranges, and wow does he have a nice little "toy" for it. Anyhow. Here is one of the threads where Zak imparts some knowledge: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=429189. You can to the right forum (THR).

Welcome and enjoy.

Geno

 

[dschflier]

Geno thanks for the info. I will check out the scope. when you say you will need a 20 or 30 MOA rail when using a 308 is this because at 1000 yards the bullet will have a lot of drop? Would you say more people would use a larger round for those distances?

 

[lefteyedom]

At 1000 yards the 308 is running out of legs. It works, but it is being pushed to its limit.

The number to remember is 1125 fps this is the speed of sound. Why is this important?

When the bullet is slowing down it is fairly stable until it cross the sound barrier. Once the bullet reaches 1125 fps + or - the sonic boom effect causes the bullet to be come unstable at tumble out of control.

As a general rule this the max distance that a cartridge can accurately hit a target.

There are two ways to deal with this. 1. Make the bullet go faster. 2. Use a bullet with a higher ballistic coefficient. ( or make a bullet with a higher B.C. go even faster )

Bullets with higher ballistic coefficients retain their velocity longer. This why long range 308 shooters use heavy 175 grn bullets which have lower muzzle velocities than faster 150 grn bullets.
Higher ballistic coefficient is also the reason the 6.5 mm does well in long range target shooting. The 260 Remington performs better at 1000 yards than a 308 win, though both use about the same amount of powder in similar sized case.

Also bullets with high B.C. deal with cross winds better.

 

[sscoyote]

When shooting beyond point blank ranges a lot of factors come into play, scope adjustment, zeroing system, parallax, reticle/turret systems, the world of external ballistics, etc.

For rangefinding with reticles do a search for "mil dot", and look for the thread "mil dot question". There's a lot of info there that will help. There's no better place in the world for researching long-range shooting than the Internet though.

One of the reasons that Zak is such a good source of info on this topic is because he attends many of the long-range roving field course matches where tgts. are set at unkown distances. Winning or coming close to winning at these kind of matches separates the men from the boys, no doubt about it. Some of these guys are probably the best long-range field shooters in the world. Here's another place to start learning how to apply scope reticles for L-R shooting--
www.ottllc.com/specialtypistols/sp20.pdf

As an afterthought here i would also get Bryan Litz' book "Practical Ballistics for the Long Range Shooter." Lot of good info on external ballistics there.

Interestingly there was an article in Fur,Fish,Game mag awhile back about a guy that was using that same rifle for long-range coyote shooting. He was getting bughole groups with just a little tweaking of the rifle and Federal 168 (?) gr. factory loads.

 

[Zak Smith]

article | Practical Long-Range Rifle Shooting, Part I - Rifle & Equipment


article | Practical Long-Range Rifle Shooting, Part II - Optics

 

[deer killa]

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