Steelharp
Member
Well, I picked up the Colt; it's not a Pocketlite, it's a Gov., Mark IV/Series 80... and man, does it feel Goooooood in my hand... 
Which would you... Colt 380 or Kahr 9?
- Thread starter Steelharp
- Start date
- Status
carebear
Member
I thought the trigger on my Kahr was far too light and spongy to truly mimic my Smith triggers very well. The loooong reset bugged me also.
Those are just my opinions on it though, years of shooting SA autos has made most other triggers feel "off".
Those are just my opinions on it though, years of shooting SA autos has made most other triggers feel "off".
carebear
Member
I am guessing that list will gather dust then.
Steelharp
Member
You're the only one on it, so far... you never know, I may take it out and shoot it, and go, "Nah, this ain't for me."
carebear
Member
Steelharp,
If you did that, I might not want it.
I wouldn't want to catch the "are you flippin' insanes?!" from your epithelials.
If you did that, I might not want it.
I wouldn't want to catch the "are you flippin' insanes?!" from your epithelials.
Steelharp
Member
Did you mean, "epithelia"... "Membranous tissue composed of one or more layers of cells separated by very little intercellular substance and forming the covering of most internal and external surfaces of the body and its organs."
I looked it up... that is the plural of epithelium...
LOL...
I looked it up... that is the plural of epithelium...
LOL...
Steelharp
Member
I just took it out back and tried it... the list is now non-existant...
I love it!!!
FS,TN: one Kel-Tec P-11 with three mags (two of them 12 rounders), hard chrome, with factory buff... great little gun, just not needed anymore... and yes, I'm serious...
$225, shipped...
I love it!!!
FS,TN: one Kel-Tec P-11 with three mags (two of them 12 rounders), hard chrome, with factory buff... great little gun, just not needed anymore... and yes, I'm serious...
$225, shipped...
carebear
Member
Not when the hotties on CSI say it.
Made my decision some time ago...
1. .380 just ain't gonna cut it in my book.
2. I already have an Officer's ACP in .45 ACP for a Colt-pattern hideaway gun.
3. I'm thoroughly tickled with my older Kahr K9, and the smooth trigger, it reminds me of my tuned PPC/Steel Challenge race revolvers. So the K9 gets packed on my person, often.
(12 to go, subtle hint to myself...)
1. .380 just ain't gonna cut it in my book.
2. I already have an Officer's ACP in .45 ACP for a Colt-pattern hideaway gun.
3. I'm thoroughly tickled with my older Kahr K9, and the smooth trigger, it reminds me of my tuned PPC/Steel Challenge race revolvers. So the K9 gets packed on my person, often.
(12 to go, subtle hint to myself...)
DHart
Member
Honestly, I'm surprised the question would even be raised. You've got the choice between two quite unequal calibers fired from similar sized platform. One caliber is very marginal (in my opinion) as a defense caliber and the other is respectable. As long as the platform is a quality gun, I would choose a 9mm all day long over any .380...
I have a Colt Mustang .380 and a Kahr PM-9. Their sizes are similar, though the Mustang is a little slimmer. The Colt is a cute little "mini 1911" of sorts... an attractive little package, especially for a 1911 lover (that's why I bought it). But that's where the charm ends.... the PM-9 is a quantum leap beyond the Mustang .380 as a defense weapon. I haven't seen my Mustang in a couple of years (it's in the back of the safe) whereas my PM-9 rides in my motorcycle jacket pocket on every ride. The trigger on a Kahr is different than other guns, but very nice and easily adapted to. The gun has been perfectly reliable. I would much prefer to have the nine over any .380.
I have a Colt Mustang .380 and a Kahr PM-9. Their sizes are similar, though the Mustang is a little slimmer. The Colt is a cute little "mini 1911" of sorts... an attractive little package, especially for a 1911 lover (that's why I bought it). But that's where the charm ends.... the PM-9 is a quantum leap beyond the Mustang .380 as a defense weapon. I haven't seen my Mustang in a couple of years (it's in the back of the safe) whereas my PM-9 rides in my motorcycle jacket pocket on every ride. The trigger on a Kahr is different than other guns, but very nice and easily adapted to. The gun has been perfectly reliable. I would much prefer to have the nine over any .380.
Steelharp
Member
Hey, guys, c'mon... let's not turn this into yet another "caliber war" thread. We all know the effective SD round is 30-06... no pistol round is ideal. Plenty of people have met their maker with a .380, and plenty of people have gone on to sue after being hit with a .45.
If you like what ya got... (and I do)... enjoy.
If you like what ya got... (and I do)... enjoy.
DHart
Member
jlh... I guess I've missed those threads because I just overlook them.
I'm hoping that my business will slow down a little after the holidays so I can get some time to photograph more of my guns. I have been overlooking quite a number of them!
steelharp... no doubt plenty of people have met their maker after bumping up against a .22! I wouldn't want to stand in front of ANY of them! But at least in my mind, I don't see any comparison of .380 to 9mm. Call me whacko! (Maybe I am.) As I recall, you did ask which gun of the two you mentioned (which includes caliber too, ya know!) each of us would prefer and I gave you my honest opinion. Some may agree, others may disagree. That's fine. But I continue to hold my own view. I didn't intend to start a caliber war! ;-)~
Nothing inherently "wrong" with the Colt .380, I just much prefer the 9mm caliber for the approximate same size and weight of bullet launcher. I also like Kahr pistols VERY much. They are very fine little guns. By comparison, my Colt Mustang feels a little frail and underpowered, somehow. Doesn't mean I don't like the Mustang, but it just doesn't "cut it" as a defense weapon in my view. For smallest/lightest pocket guns I have chosen the PM-9 and S&W 642.
I'm hoping that my business will slow down a little after the holidays so I can get some time to photograph more of my guns. I have been overlooking quite a number of them!
steelharp... no doubt plenty of people have met their maker after bumping up against a .22! I wouldn't want to stand in front of ANY of them! But at least in my mind, I don't see any comparison of .380 to 9mm. Call me whacko! (Maybe I am.) As I recall, you did ask which gun of the two you mentioned (which includes caliber too, ya know!) each of us would prefer and I gave you my honest opinion. Some may agree, others may disagree. That's fine. But I continue to hold my own view. I didn't intend to start a caliber war! ;-)~
Nothing inherently "wrong" with the Colt .380, I just much prefer the 9mm caliber for the approximate same size and weight of bullet launcher. I also like Kahr pistols VERY much. They are very fine little guns. By comparison, my Colt Mustang feels a little frail and underpowered, somehow. Doesn't mean I don't like the Mustang, but it just doesn't "cut it" as a defense weapon in my view. For smallest/lightest pocket guns I have chosen the PM-9 and S&W 642.
Steelharp
Member
D... no offense taken in any way, my man... (jeez, I gotta get to the airport...!)
I just know this... my pie plate sustained much more damage with the Colt than it did with the Kahr for me... I loved the little Kahr I had... but I'd rather hit my target.
Whatever works for whomever... that's why there are so many choices...
I just know this... my pie plate sustained much more damage with the Colt than it did with the Kahr for me... I loved the little Kahr I had... but I'd rather hit my target.
Whatever works for whomever... that's why there are so many choices...
carebear
Member
Even if the spec dimensions are more or less the same, that .2 inch with a different radius and angle can be the difference between comfort or poor pointability/controllability on a grip. That mere .25 inches of barrel might be the deciding factor on whether it fits "in" or just "mostly in" your pocket. The contour and flow of the frame and slide taken as a whole can make the blocky guns feel "larger" even when ostensibly the same size or smaller.
That trigger feel, reach, weight and reset may be the difference between instant familiarity and accuracy due to similarity with every other pistol you own and carry and "man, this doesn't feel right".
To forego all those tough to quantify issues that make for better gunhandling/carry for a marginal (perceived at least) real world increase in performance doesn't necessarily "go without saying".
That trigger feel, reach, weight and reset may be the difference between instant familiarity and accuracy due to similarity with every other pistol you own and carry and "man, this doesn't feel right".
To forego all those tough to quantify issues that make for better gunhandling/carry for a marginal (perceived at least) real world increase in performance doesn't necessarily "go without saying".
It is funny, those are two of the best feeling guns in my hands ever. I used to love the Colt Gov 380 until the Kahr came out. Now I think the Kahr is better.
The Colt has some downsides for self defense pistol. It is only a .380 and the Kahr is a much more powerful and cheaper to shoot 9mm. The Colt is also a single action which I think is a huge downside in a self defense auto esp a small SD auto. The Kahr is DAO and has no lever to mess with.
I really think the Kahr is the better gun for SD. Do what you want but the Colt is really only a collectable now that the Kahr is here.
Once you get used to the Kahr trigger, you will be surprised how accurate they are. My K-9s are the equal or better than most full sized service pistols in terms of accuracy. For example, my K-9s can out shoot most Rugers I have owned and most S&W autos as well. They are small guns that shoot like full sized guns once you master the trigger. It takes a while if you are not used to that type of trigger but sooner or later you are going to have to learn to shoot a double action or you are going to be stuck with single action autos. SA autos are on the way out for good reason, they are just not as simple as the DAO or DA/SA decocker versions like the SIG. In self defense, simple is almost as important as reliability, power or accuracy. Think about it, when you are in a situation where you REALLY need a gun, you want to have to think about whether the safety is on or the hammer is cocked or if there is a round in the chamber? I know I don't. I just want to know that I can grab the gun and pull the trigger and it will work, period.
Maybe others are willing to risk the problems of SA autos but not me.
The Colt has some downsides for self defense pistol. It is only a .380 and the Kahr is a much more powerful and cheaper to shoot 9mm. The Colt is also a single action which I think is a huge downside in a self defense auto esp a small SD auto. The Kahr is DAO and has no lever to mess with.
I really think the Kahr is the better gun for SD. Do what you want but the Colt is really only a collectable now that the Kahr is here.
Once you get used to the Kahr trigger, you will be surprised how accurate they are. My K-9s are the equal or better than most full sized service pistols in terms of accuracy. For example, my K-9s can out shoot most Rugers I have owned and most S&W autos as well. They are small guns that shoot like full sized guns once you master the trigger. It takes a while if you are not used to that type of trigger but sooner or later you are going to have to learn to shoot a double action or you are going to be stuck with single action autos. SA autos are on the way out for good reason, they are just not as simple as the DAO or DA/SA decocker versions like the SIG. In self defense, simple is almost as important as reliability, power or accuracy. Think about it, when you are in a situation where you REALLY need a gun, you want to have to think about whether the safety is on or the hammer is cocked or if there is a round in the chamber? I know I don't. I just want to know that I can grab the gun and pull the trigger and it will work, period.
Maybe others are willing to risk the problems of SA autos but not me.
carebear
Member
To each his own.
To solve the SA safety "problem" I use a little thing called training.
To solve the SA safety "problem"
I use a little thing called training.I like kahr, here's why
I like the Kahr because I read of some colt mfg issues, but these may have been related to their AR style rifle mfg, not the pistol line, so no flames please. Also, I visited Kahr's website and they show you the process of the slide being manufactured from a solid billet, most companies don't do that. This shows me that Kahr is "overdoing" it a bit to insure a good product. If they do that, imagine how well they manage their machining operations on the manufacturing floor. Illustrates good quality control to me.
I'm not going to argue beyond because I'm not that informed on these products beyond what I just stated.
jeepmor
I like the Kahr because I read of some colt mfg issues, but these may have been related to their AR style rifle mfg, not the pistol line, so no flames please. Also, I visited Kahr's website and they show you the process of the slide being manufactured from a solid billet, most companies don't do that. This shows me that Kahr is "overdoing" it a bit to insure a good product. If they do that, imagine how well they manage their machining operations on the manufacturing floor. Illustrates good quality control to me.
I'm not going to argue beyond because I'm not that informed on these products beyond what I just stated.
jeepmor
MCgunner
Member
GoBrush said:
I carry .380 for pocket convenience now and then. The government .380 is no pocket gun, though. A gun that big needs a more powerful round.
I carry my Kel Tec on my bike (I don't ride Hogs, prefer something with more of a throttle and less of a volume control) in a Mitch Rosen Workman IWB which allows me to tuck my shirt in over it. If you're just riding with a T shirt out, the wind will blow it up over your waist now and then. I normally wear an armored summer textile jacket when I'm riding in summer, but still feel better about having the shirt tail tucked over the gun when I'm riding.
Steelharp
Member
I guess it depends on the person/pocket... it works for me, but I'm a guy with just a few extra pounds I'd like to get rid of, and the pockets on my clothes have enough room...
MCgunner
Member
Steelharp said:
Just personal preference here, but even if the gun fits a pocket (the littlest Mustang is tiny and I'm picturing the bigger government model 380), I wouldn't carry the gun hammer back conditioin one in a pocket and there's a lot of things on a single action that can grab on clothing on the draw. I prefer hammerless, do dadless, firearms for pocket carry. But, whatever works. That's just me, and I've never actually carried a Colt in a pocket so whadda I know?
"To each his own.
To solve the SA safety "problem" I use a little thing called training."
Good for you. While you are "training" yourself to remember to flick the safety on and off, I will be training to actually shoot the Kahr. For every hour you spend practicing your safety checks and drills, someone out there is using that same time to draw faster and put rounds on target more accuratly and faster.
I am not saying the SA auto can't be mastered, it is not that hard to remember to flick the safety off when you want to shoot. If you practice enough, it becomes second nature. My point is, why bother? Why bother having to learn and remember some fine motor skill action on a weapon when there are plenty of great guns where it is not an issue. If the only reliable autos were SA only, I can see your point but I'm sure most SIG, Beretta and Glock owners would dispute that.
SA autos are find for full sized duty guns but for a small auto that may not be carried in a holster all the time, they are a nightmare. How are you going to carry a SA only auto in your pocket? Cocked and locked in the pocket? What happens when the safety gets moved to the fire position and something presses against your hair SA trigger? If it is pointed at your family jewels, you won't be singing the praises of the SA pocket auto for long. If you do still sing the praises, at least you will be able to hit the high notes like a 9 year old boy again.
To solve the SA safety "problem" I use a little thing called training."
Good for you. While you are "training" yourself to remember to flick the safety on and off, I will be training to actually shoot the Kahr. For every hour you spend practicing your safety checks and drills, someone out there is using that same time to draw faster and put rounds on target more accuratly and faster.
I am not saying the SA auto can't be mastered, it is not that hard to remember to flick the safety off when you want to shoot. If you practice enough, it becomes second nature. My point is, why bother? Why bother having to learn and remember some fine motor skill action on a weapon when there are plenty of great guns where it is not an issue. If the only reliable autos were SA only, I can see your point but I'm sure most SIG, Beretta and Glock owners would dispute that.
SA autos are find for full sized duty guns but for a small auto that may not be carried in a holster all the time, they are a nightmare. How are you going to carry a SA only auto in your pocket? Cocked and locked in the pocket?
What happens when the safety gets moved to the fire position and something presses against your hair SA trigger? If it is pointed at your family jewels, you won't be singing the praises of the SA pocket auto for long. If you do still sing the praises, at least you will be able to hit the high notes like a 9 year old boy again.- Status
