Whitetail round in 223? Any ideas?

[BudgetBucks1]

My son has an AR with a 1/7 twist barrel. Any experience hunting whitetails with any of the rounds that work well with a 1/7 twist? I am planning on taking him deer hunting for the first time this year and he isn't quite big enough to comfortably shoot the .243 yet so I am going to let him use the AR.

 

[onelastshot]

You didn't mention your son's age so I can't draw comparisons as to what I did for my boys when they first started hunting. My oldest was nine when he shot his first deer; he shot it with a 243. An advantage I had was the fact that I reloaded and could load a lower velocity round that he was comfortable with. I also installed a past recoil pad which made a significant difference for him. If you take the necessary steps, a 243 can be as pleasant to shoot as a 223.

I would recommend if at all possible, to outfit your 243 for him to use. In short, the 223 simply doesn't have the stopping power unless shot placement is almost perfect. Most states do not allow the use of 22 caliber rifles for that reason.

The first time hunting is a lifelong memory for most of us, especially if it includes shooting your first deer. I just wouldn't want your son to experience the heartache of wounding his first deer and end up going home empty-handed.

My oldest son practiced and practiced before opening day. He made a terrific 80 yard lung shot with his 243; the deer ran less than thirty yards before collapsing.
I hope your son's hunt is a wonderful success.

 

[rbernie]

I've never understood why an 80gr .243 is considered by many to be death to whitetail inside of 200 yards but a 75gr .223 of equal construction at an equal range is somehow ill advised.....

 

[Captcurt]

My son has an AR with a 1/7 twist barrel. Any experience hunting whitetails with any of the rounds that work well with a 1/7 twist? I am planning on taking him deer hunting for the first time this year and he isn't quite big enough to comfortably shoot the .243 yet so I am going to let him use the AR.

If I had to shoot a 223 factory load I would pick a bonded bullet like Federal's 62gr. Fusion. If you reload, check out the 60+gr Monolithic bullets or the bonded cores.

I talked a friend into buying a 243 for his grandson and rolled some reduced loads for the 8 year old. He took 4 deer in the first two seasons shooting a 90gr Speer HotCor at 1700fps. No problems what-so-ever.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

I've never understood why an 80gr .243 is considered by many to be death to whitetail inside of 200 yards but a 75gr .223 of equal construction at an equal range is somehow ill advised.....

I think you can answer that question by comparing case capacity's.

 

[jmorris]

I've never understood why an 80gr .243 is considered by many to be death to whitetail inside of 200 yards but a 75gr .223 of equal construction at an equal range is somehow ill advised.....

Hang out on forums and you'll find folks that have bagged water buffalo with squirt guns.

While I have killed hogs in a trap with a .22lr, I set my floor for deer above 80 grains. That said the 243 sends an 80gr bullet out around 3400 fps with over 2000 ft/lb of energy, while the 223 sends a 75gr bullet around 2700 fps with 1200 ft/lb of energy. While 5 grains is not much 800 ft/lbs of energy is substantial.

 

[Grumulkin]

I've never understood why an 80gr .243 is considered by many to be death to whitetail inside of 200 yards but a 75gr .223 of equal construction at an equal range is somehow ill advised.....

I've never understood that either.

I've never taken a deer with a 223 but I did with a 222; it was one shot with a Speer 70 grain Semi Spitzer.

Then there was the "heavy" bullet I used in a 204 Ruger; all 45 grains of a Hornady Spire Point took a deer at about 252 yards.

 

[BudgetBucks1]

The length of pull is the issue I am having with the .243. His arms just aren't long enough for him to use good shooting form with that rifle. The AR is adjustable. He seems much more comfortable shooting the AR and the longest shot he would be taking for a few years would be around 40 yards around a small foodplot as it is the only place I have to take him that is enclosed and his constant movement won't give us away. Also, the shorter AR is handier to maneuver in the groundblind without bumping into things and busting the deer out of the field. When he gets big enough the .243 is his to use. I have killed a number of deer with it and none made it out of sight. I'm thinking of going with the 65 grain gamekings. Any of you have field experience with that round.

 

[courtgreene]

I've used the 65 grain gamekings and the 62 grain tsx and they both did great. In, obliteration, exit the other side. I chose an ar-15 for the op's reasons. Nothing can be made to fit a kid more comfortably IMO.

 

[jmr40]

That said the 243 sends an 80gr bullet out around 3400 fps with over 2000 ft/lb of energy, while the 223 sends a 75gr bullet around 2700 fps with 1200 ft/lb of energy. While 5 grains is not much 800 ft/lbs of energy is substantial.

I don't think so. Energy doesn't kill anything. Putting bullets in the right spot with enough penetration to reach vitals and give enough expansion to destroy body parts is what kills stuff. While the 243 has more on paper, both have more than enough to do this task. Dead is dead, there is no such thing as deader.

A 75 gr 223 bullet will penetrate deeper than the 80 gr 243 bullet from odd angles. A heavier 95-105 gr 243 bullet would take the 243 to another level especially at longer ranges or if game larger than deer are a possibility. But inside of 150-200 yards a heavy 223 bullet is just as effective on deer size game as a 30-06 at the same ranges, maybe better.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

A .223 may be better on deer than a 30-06? explain.

 

[Water-Man]

Here's the ones I like: 1:7 twist

60gr. Nos. Part.
64gr. GDSP
70gr. Barnes TSX-BT
64gr. SP Winchester Nos. Bonded

 

[Davek1977]

I've killed both mature whitetail and mule deer bucks with the Fusion loading

 

[jmorris]

I don't think so. Energy doesn't kill anything. Putting bullets in the right spot with enough penetration to reach vitals and give enough expansion to destroy body parts is what kills stuff.

And I though I had that covered when I said I had killed hogs with a .22 lr. I will stick with my opinion that 800 ft/lbs is a substantial amount of energy. In fact that's about all the energy a 75gn .223 load has left by the time it reaches 250 yds.

 

[Captcurt]

I've used the 65 grain gamekings and the 62 grain tsx and they both did great. In, obliteration, exit the other side. I chose an ar-15 for the op's reasons. Nothing can be made to fit a kid more comfortably IMO.

My only problem is the kid factor. Inexperienced youngsters need a lot of coaching before they are taken to the woods. A 223 in the hands of someone proficient with a rifle should have no problem taking deer provided that they are patient and will wait on the perfect shot. A young pup will be excited at the sight of game and more that likely jerk the trigger regardless of what part of anatomy that the sights are on. This is where a little more bullet sent a little faster can be the difference between a deer in the freezer or one that is coyote food.

When I teach a Hunter's Ed class I have pictures of deer at different angles and crosshairs drawn where to hold for proper shot placement. I showed it to my Son-in-law who had never hunted. He took two deer on his first hunt and shot both of them perfectly. I heard of one kid who was told to shoot the deer behind the shoulder. The doe was standing broadside. The kid asked which shoulder, the back or the front. True story.

 

[MCgunner]

Well, if I shot the .243, I'd use the 100 grain pill. But, I shoot a 100 grain in .257 Roberts instead of the 117s, so whadda I know? But, Texas deer don't get too big. Of the couple dozen I've killed with that rifle over the years, I only shot one that wasn't a bang/flop. I used a 117 interlock on that one and it failed to expand, great shot placement, though. It made it 75 yards with no blood trail, dropped right in the road by the fence.

No, I wouldn't advise a kid shoot less than .243, but then, I'm old school. .22-250s are pretty popular as starter rifles in Texas, but mine had to learn to handle a .257 just as i did. It was my grandpa's gun. I was a big kid at 11 when I shot my first deer. My daughter was tall for her age, too. The length of pull matters. I think I'd just cut down the stock on something, myself. Wouldn't be on my .257, though!

Doesn't Ruger make an American with an adjustable length of pull for kids? Seems like I saw an ad a while back.

Edit...nope, all I could find with an adjustable length of pull from Ruger is a rimfire.

 

[midland man]

well let me tell you I used a 223 for deer for years and I learned that with 55gr bullets in the neck only work excellent!! but if you use it in the heart/lung area you want like it and will lose a lot of deer and so take my advise neck/head shots only with 223 and you will be happy, as they will be layin right there where it was shot!

 

[SlowFuse]

My only choice is a 60 grain Nosler partition, I know it works. My only other notes are use it less that 150 yards and make dang sure you have a good shot.

 

[Swami]

As a kid of around 10, I was presented with my first shot at a deer. It was a doe, and although it was doe day, the deer was facing directly away from me. In other words, I had a great view of the deer's arse. My mother's current boyfriend was with me and was whispering "shoot it!" but even at 10 I knew that wasn't a humane shot, I didn't want to just wound a deer in it's butt. The story got back that I was "too scared to shoot the deer" but the truth is I didn't want to make an inhumane shot and my mom's boyfriend was a dumbass. My point is, perhaps the kid wouldn't be as eager to slam that trigger as may have been suggested.

 

[stiab]

I've never understood why an 80gr .243 is considered by many to be death to whitetail inside of 200 yards...

I don't personally know anybody who thinks that, but I know several folks who think when deer hunting with the .243 you should stick to the heavier 95 and 100 grain bullets.

 

[Manny]

The length of pull is the issue I am having with the .243. His arms just aren't long enough for him to use good shooting form with that rifle. The AR is adjustable. He seems much more comfortable shooting the AR and the longest shot he would be taking for a few years would be around 40 yards around a small foodplot as it is the only place I have to take him that is enclosed and his constant movement won't give us away. Also, the shorter AR is handier to maneuver in the groundblind without bumping into things and busting the deer out of the field. When he gets big enough the .243 is his to use. I have killed a number of deer with it and none made it out of sight. I'm thinking of going with the 65 grain gamekings. Any of you have field experience with that round.

Looking at the the potential shot you describe, 40 yards or less and from concealment, it sounds like you have an excellent area and situation to employ a .223 successfully. Just don't use a lightly constructed varmint bullet that will blow up and work with your son on shot placement and controlling any potential "buck fever" and you ought to have venison in the freezer before long.

 

[Eb1]

Any 55 grain to 64 grain soft point will do fine. I have had good success with both, but do not hit the shoulder. Total meat loss. Make a neck or high lung shot.

I think the 64 grain PowerPoint is a good round from Winchester, and Black Hills 55 grain soft points make a good soft point as well. I wouldn't shoot past 125 yards with a .223 even though death would be inevitable to the deer. Animals seem to have more will to live than the others creatures on earth.
I don't think you need any solid copper bullet that is actually made, and loaded by R&P, and sold as a premium bullet. Any old soft point like I mentioned from 55 to 69 grains will do you just fine.
Good hunting.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Eb1 is close.
I've killed deer with the .223 with bullets from 50 to 70gr.
Most any SOFT POINT bullet ammo 55gr or heavier will work well.
Avoid the plastic tipped ammo, as well as hollow pointed. One exception is the Berger 70gr VLD. I killed a deer last season with it from my 20"bbl Mossberg MVP at ~30yds with a heart shot. Bullet expanded and gave a 4" exit wound, or about like a 150gr bullet from a .30/06 at same velocity/range.

My favorite AR15 deer load uses the 60gr Hornady PtSpt, followed by the 63 and 65gr Sierra ProHunter and GameKing bullets. I bought a large amount of Hornady 60gr PtSpts (blems from MidwayUSA) several years ago, so it's my "go-to" bullet for either the .223 or .22-250.
The Winchester 64gr PtSpt has an excellent reputation in our area for deer.
I've killed more deer with the Hornady 55gr PtSpt because I've bought lots of them in bulk (1,000pc packs) over the years, as plinking and general use in various .22cf's.

Most of my "deer shooting" is with cast bullets these days, just because I can, and enjoy using a bullet I make myself. But, now that the shortages are over, it cost about the same for a 55-60gr .224" bullet as it does to gas-check a cast bullet.
I'm not especially crazy about the ergonomics of the AR, and much prefer my lever-action's. I'm kinda of a "wool plaid" kind of outdoorsman vs. ripstop nylon camo kind.
Love my l/a's and the .35Rem is probably my favorite.
A 200gr .360" FNGC doesn't do any better than the .223 on our smallish deer.

Watched 4 8pt+ and two "smaller" bucks on the corn in backyard last evening.
'15 should be an excellent year for deer harvest in the backyard!
Like last year, the bucks keep all the does ran off! With the 4pt per side or better requirement in effect for 10+years, the does get hit real hard. Getting harder each season to let 4 or 5 "too small" bucks walk and not see any does! But the bucks keep coming from "somewhere" though!

 

[BudgetBucks1]

Thanks for all the replies. I am going to test the accuracy on a few of those rounds that have been recommended and go from there. Then I am going to start weekly shooting lessons at 100 yards with my son. If he can hit accurately I am going to let him try it in November. He shoots plenty accurate with a .22 at 50 yards. If he gets a deer I will post the results.

 

[1911 guy]

I'm a fan of the .223, but not usually for deer. However, if you're going to be in the stand with him to guide him through the process of shot selection and relatively close range, a .223 will do it.

As suggested, I'd opt for softpoint bullets on the heavy side, pass on shots that require punching through any bone but the ribs and keeping range inside 100 yards.