Who is Col Cooper and why is everyone in love with what he says?

[444]

I am not sure what lead to this charge of racisim. I never had that impression of him, but then I am sure I have not read a fraction of what he has written.
When I got to visit him in his home, it appeared to me like he gets a constant flood of people visiting him. When we pulled up to the door, three black men were leaving the house. It appeared to me to be a man and his two sons. I hardly think a man that welcomes them into his home is racist.

I am not sure when this program where he misses a target was filmed, but Col. Cooper is getting on in years. I have seen him in person twice in the last year and he could hardly walk.

 

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

Cooper writes some stuff that's worth reading. Trouble is, he uses a two-by-four for a pencil.

- pdmoderator

 

[DevilDog]

I have only read a fraction of what he has written. Like anyone involved (professionally or otherwise) in firearms, military subjects, self protection, etc, he has his opinions on what gear, tactics, etc. Many of them I agree with and have learned from, some of them, not as much.

I am not sure what lead to this charge of racisim.

I attribute some of the charges to his writing style. I remember once a co-worker read a political oriented article where Col. Cooper used the phrase "... the greying of America...". The article (iirc) had a social lean, but was oriented toward crime, punishment, right and wrong, etc. Yet my co-worker read it and instantly thought Col. Cooper used that phrase to complain about inter-racial mixing and that it was a source of crime. I thought that was one heck of a stretch since race was not a topic or mentioned in this article, at least not explicitly.

I have not read enough of his writings and more importantly, have not met him to know what are his feelings on race.

In these politically correct times, it is impossible for an old white guy who leans right of center to speak frankly on certain issues without getting a number of accusations. To most leftist in this country, you are automatically assumed to be a racist if you are on the right.

 

[ClarkEMyers]

Cooper did once suggest some loads too hot for my guns though

In the 60's and 70's of the last century Colonel Cooper did suggest that J-frame Smiths might be loaded to approximate the 158 Keith style commonly called the FBI load from a duty revolver. His point was that the backup gun was most needed in particularly stressful situations.

He even suggested a quantity of Red Dot to do it. He was right but my gun at least didn't stand up to it all that well.

I seem to recall that Colonel Cooper later remarked that only the best of the then new Model 60's would work well with that load. He reported that early Model 60's were particularly well fitted and heat treated.

No reason to follow his writings blindly but they are always valuable and almost always right on matters of fact.

 

[flatdog]

The June issue of Cooper's Commentaries is out.

http://www.jpate.freeserve.co.uk/JeffCooper/

In it he addresses his use of the editorial "we" and his motivation for writing. Also included is a talk delivered by Haim Harari an Israeli theoretical scientist on Moslem extremist motivation.

flatodg

 

[mohican]

Provide examples, please

Jim Keenan
Senior Member

"Count me among the latter. At times he makes good sense, but unfortunately, many of his opinions are so extreme that he has become a poster boy for the anti-gun gang, being quoted in many of their publications to "prove" that gun people are Nazis, racists, etc. Cooper may not always mean what he writes, but he sure doesn't think about what it will look like in print or how it can be used against us. I think that he is so full of himself that he really doesn't care a damn whether anyone else can own a gun or not as long as he can. He can be highly embarassing. "

Provide examples of what he has written or said that is Nazi-Racist

-----------------
Cooper is like a quality control person-if he/she is pissing someone off, then he/she is being effective
-----------------

Cooper is not exactly hide bound in the past. He is analytical about new fire arms, even when he helped create them ie the Bren 10. He states that they developed it just to do it rather than asking why.

To quote the Colonel "We recently had occasion to discuss the history of the Bren Ten with a correspondent who was obviously more of a collector than a shooter. The Bren Ten was a concept of mine, and while I am not ashamed of it, I admit that this concept was not entirely sound. What the Bren Ten pistol achieved over the 1911 was range. The full-house, 10mm cartridge--definitely not the attenuated 10s that are popular now--pushed the effective range of the combat sidearm out beyond that which is usually expected. But extending the manageable range of a combat pistol out beyond the ability of the shooter to utilize it does not accomplish much. The full-house Bren Ten should be able to achieve reliable one-shot stops out to at least 50 meters, but pistol actions do not take place at 50 meters. The combat pistol is best employed at distances hardly more than across the room, and the Bren Ten will not do this any better than the venerable .45 ACP, or so it would seem."

--------------------
He reminds me of my granpa, and also of my namesake - not afraid to call a spade a spade.

 

[BigG]

Anybody who has read Cooper for any length of time will probably agree he's a salty old bird, at the least. On the editorial We

"From the beginning I have affected the `editorial we,' which annoys some people very much. Obviously I rather like it, and since I have no boss I can write to please myself. One cannot write to please any group, since groups are made up of individuals. One can write to please the king, or his wife, or a publisher, or a client, but he cannot write to please the `average reader,' because there is no such person. So I write for my own amusement and let the chips fall where they may.

All I will say is I support his right to use the language as he sees fit. He says he "affected' the word and I agree, it is an affectation, if not an aberration. But like I said, it's a free country. Isn't it?

 

[madcowburger]

Col. Cooper is a great man, one of the great men of the Twentieth Century.

Almost everything I know about marksmanship, gunhandling, and mindset I learned from his books, magazine articles, and a couple of videos. He has kindly answered several of my letters over a period of 26 years. I owe him a lot, though I have never met him in person.

One of the great regrets of my life is that I was unable to attend Gunsite back when I first wanted to, when it would have done the most good, in 1978. I am sorry that I will almost certainly never meet him in this life. I am sorry that I have found myself unable to follow his example very well.

I haven't had a chance to try out a Scout Rifle, so I can't offer a personal evaluation of the concept. I admit I am more accustomed to self-loading rifles than bolt-action rifles, and I imagine I might feel myself at a disadvantage if armed with the latter, at least in any sort of close, fast-breaking fight, which is the kind personal experience has led me to expect, rather than any sort of sniping duel. I am not very interested in hunting, particularly as it is done (from a stand or a blind) in my part of the world.

But I believe him that he doesn't make any money off the sales of Scout Rifles. I am inclined to resent such insinuations.

I'd like to build a house something like the one he designed and built, if I knew how he designed and built it, and how to afford it. I have only seen one photo of it, taken from a distance and showing only one angle of it. I couldn't tell much about it. It's supposed to be really something special. But, lacking sufficient knowledge to copy the work of my betters, I shall have to use my imagination and think of something on my own.

MCB

 

[D7tho]

I began personal correspondence with Jeff

in 1971, I think it was. I see no reason to bother with any bolt action at all, since the autos can do anything that the bolt actions can do, plus several things that they can't. I certainly would never bother with an overpriced, short ranged bolt action. Jeff has published so many out and out contradictions to what he's said on the same subject, that it's a joke among those who really know him. He's been known to cheat match attendees rather badly, weighting the Pepper Poppers so only a 12 ga slug or 308 will down them, for instance. That's why Chuck Taylor quit as Jeff's head instructor, you know.

 

[Phil Ca]

While I don't pay attention to 'everything' that Col. Cooper has said or written, I do respect the man for his experience. No one has the absolute answer to everything.

Some other shooters and instructors of note are Col. Askins, Col. Aplegate, and Mas Ayoob, all very knowledgeable in their own right. I met Col. Applegate at a show in Portland, Oregon some years ago. He was sitting, resting in a chair under the escalator of the convention center. He looked tired but I had to meet this great man. I told him how much his writings had met to me and how I had tried to impart some of that knowledge to the officers I hd been training. He smiled and thanked me and seemed pleased that the younger generation was using his material. I only met him for about 60 seconds but it was a highlight of my attendance at the show.

 

[MBane666]

Yeah, Col. Jeff is a crotchity old b%$tard—who once told me that not *everything* I wrote was *total dreck,* but that, lordy, I needed to get a haircut more often!—occasionally self-contradictory, still carrying the torch for the Weaver stance long after it's blown out and sometimes so politically incorrect that he could probably make Ghenghis Khan flinch...

...still, he kind of "invented" us, or at least staked out the turf where a lot of us still stand. PRINCIPLES OF PERSONAL DEFENSE remains rock-solid bedrock reading for anyone interested in self-defense, and his commentaries are, if nothing else, entertaining.

Think of him as Don Corleone...

Michael B

 

[joab]

The Colonel is an opinionated, long winded, cocky to the point of arrogance, throw back to to another time.
That's why I like him.
No sugar coated feel good PC crap to cloud his opinions. If he has something to say his statements and sentiments are usually based on experience.
I don't agree with every thing he says, but then I don't agree with evrything anybody says. But I'm not going to offer my level of knowledge and experience against his to argue the point.
I take what I can from him and leave the rest

 

[C. H. Luke]

"That's why Chuck Taylor quit as Jeff's head instructor, you know."

No offense D7, Chuck certainly had MANY other reasons to leave from some of the stories have heard of "El Jeffe's" behavior & high jinks at Gunsite. Not a few involving gross negligence of safety with handguns in presence of Staff's family's on Gunsite property.

Do think that he does well deserve the recognition and respect for his enormous and long contribution to Small Arms Craft over his lifetime.

 

[444]

A couple comments, loosely related to this thread:
It was mentioned in this thread that the "scout" rifle is a short ranged rifle.
At one time, magnified optics on rifles were far more rare than they are now. Never the less, people seemed to get along fine. Hunters and target shooters did the same things we do today, only they used iron sights. In the military, they trained and qualified out to 600 yards beginning with the Trapdoor Springfield rifle loaded with blackpowder cartridges. Formal matches were conducted out to 1000 yards using iron sights. I recently read a letter to the editor written to the American RIfleman magazine 40-50 years ago where I guy was talking about his long range big game rifle that was equipped with a reciever sight. I recently read a post on-line (that may be true or not) that said that during the early days of this country, a guy was considered a good rifleman if he could hold an 8" group at 200 yards with a muzzleloader OFFHAND.
This is the world that Jeff Cooper grew up in. He knew what was possible with iron sights and a good rifle. Even military snipers used and use scopes that would probably not be the pick of today's internet commandos. During WWII (if I am not mistaken) sniper scopes were no more than 4X. Carlos Hathcock used a 6X scope in Vietnam. If I remember correctly, even today our snipers are using a fixed 10X scope.
Today, we consider a "scout" rifle that is equipped with a magnified optic (granted it is minimal magnification) a "short range rifle".

One reason this strikes me is that my current big shooting interest is older WWI, WWII military rifles. I regularly compete in a local match where you use "vintage" bolt action rifles against steel plates out to 400 yards. I have also shot a local match on standard rifle sihouettes with these same rifles out to 500 yards. I also recently competed in a match in Utah where we used these rifles in a match that went out to 800 yards with a side match that went out to 1000 yards.
This is all with 50+ year old military rifles using iron sights.
It gave me a new appreciation for our forefathers and also what can be done with iron sights.
Having a 2X scope would have seemed almost easy in comparison.

 

[444]

Another expert heard from.