Who is in a militia here?

[Joejojoba111]

Are you a male of age 17-45? Guess what, YOU ARE IN THE MILITIA.

Shove that up the think holes of anti-2nd amendment peoples.


Just thought it needed saying.


"The current United States Code, Title 10 (Armed forces), section 311 (Militia: Composition and Classes), paragraph (a) states "The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard." Section 313 of Title 32 refers to persons with prior military experience who could serve as officers. These persons remain members of the militia until age 65. Paragraph (b) further states," The classes of the militia are--(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia. See http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&docid=Cite:+10USC311"

Wikipedia.org

 

[thereisnospoon]

Please define able bodied...

I need to work out more, instead of sitting in front of this computer reading strange posts about Militia involvement.

Hey, do you work for the govern....

Nevermind!

 

[ZekeLuvs1911]

Problem with this is that by the letter of the law, women are not part of the militia (unless in the National Guard) and by extension, should not be able to exercise the 2nd Amendment rights.

 

[DMF]

Well then why did the fat guy in camoflague clothes at the last gun show say I couldn't join the militia? He handed me a paper, with their rules for membership, that said it was against the rules to join if I was an "undercover agent of the government." When I told him I was a fed, and not undercover at all, and was thinking of joining up, he got all agitated and said over and over again I wasn't allowed to join. He really was working himself into a tizzy.

I was a bit disappointed too, as I was hoping to attend their next meeting where they were going to watch a couple of training films (Red Dawn, and The Stand), and discuss various FOGRAPTBHSO scenarios.

 

[Zundfolge]

Problem with this is that by the letter of the law, women are not part of the militia and by extension, should not be able to exercise the 2nd Amendment rights.

Its not a problem because the Second Amendment isn't about arming the Militia.

The 2A states "...the Right of the people to keep and bare arms shall not be infringed ..."


In plane English the 2A says; "Because a well equipped and prepared Militia is necessary for the security of a free state, the right of everyone to own and carry arms should not be interfered with"

 

[DMF]

Zundfolge posted at 2138 5 Jun 05:
In plane English the 2A says; "Because a well equipped and prepared Militia is necessary for the security of a free state, the right of everyone to own and carry arms should not be interfered with"

Well I think someone needs to reread the Constitution. What the second amendment really says in plain English is: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment02/

Now if you want to go rewording it, some here might start thinking you're a Supreme Court Justice.

 

[2nd Amendment]

Well hell, DMF, I can fix ya up. None of us are particularly fat, though, and the County Council and Chamber meetings that usually come right before and after our militia meetings don't like camo so we're generally not in it. You DO own a suit and tie, right?

 

[Zundfolge]

plane...plain...DAMN YOU NEA RUN PUBLIK SKREWLS!



I agree that the original wording is plain as day (see I got it this time), but I cleaned up and modernized the language a little bit ... the word "regulated" has so drastically changed meaning since the 1770's that I felt it should be addressed.

My point in response to ZekeLuvs1911 still stands

 

[Supreme Leader]

Problem with this is that by the letter of the law, women are not part of the militia (unless in the National Guard) and by extension, should not be able to exercise the 2nd Amendment rights.

Tell that to Molly Pitcher

 

[beerslurpy]

The right to keep and bear arms is preserved for many reasons, foremost of which is the militia. The introductory clause of the 2nd does not limit its scope, merely provides a compelling reason that it should be proteted. The right does not cease to exist if the militia falls into disuse or you cannot participate in it.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Things are not as definitive as suggested by Joejojoba111. Left out was the following section that denotes many exceptions.

Section 312. Militia duty: exemptions

(a) The following persons are exempt from militia duty:
(1) The Vice President.
(2) The judicial and executive officers of the United States,
the several States and Territories, and Puerto Rico.
(3) Members of the armed forces, except members who are not on
active duty.
(4) Customhouse clerks.
(5) Persons employed by the United States in the transmission
of mail.
(6) Workmen employed in armories, arsenals, and naval shipyards
of the United States.
(7) Pilots on navigable waters.
(8) Mariners in the sea service of a citizen of, or a merchant
in, the United States.
(b) A person who claims exemption because of religious belief is
exempt from militia duty in a combatant capacity, if the
conscientious holding of that belief is established under such
regulations as the President may prescribe. However, such a person
is not exempt from militia duty that the President determines to be
noncombatant.

-------------------------------

Aside from the noted error between "people" and "miliitia" it becomes very difficult to argue about the law when folks are not actually arguing about the law, but what they think the law should read. The two are not one in the same. Plus, it weakens the pro 2nd position when pro 2nd supporters misrepresent what is stated in the law.

I agree that the original wording is plain as day (see I got it this time), but I cleaned up and modernized the language a little bit ... the word "regulated" has so drastically changed meaning since the 1770's that I felt it should be addressed.

Furthermore, the justification for promoting the modernized interpretation where it is noted that the word "regulated" has so drastically changed in meaning since the 1770s, how can you then defend the position that the folllowing portions of the 2A phrasing hasn't changed and remains absolute? In short, a double standard is being applied here. Double standards are fallacies of logic when making arguments such as this.

In plane English the 2A says; "Because a well equipped and prepared Militia is necessary for the security of a free state, the right of everyone to own and carry arms should not be interfered with"

Nothing in the original 2A had anything about how well equipped or prepared the militia is/should be.

You know, pro gun folks hate it when anti gun folks misrepresent gun-related matters and interpret the law in manners different from how pro gun folks interpret the law. And yet, pro gun folks are guilty of the same types of behaviors.

A few years ago, there was an article published that presented both the NRA's position and the position of some anti-gun group. Both citied the same CDC report on gun-related injuries and deaths. How could that be possible that both sides were stating that the same set of data supported their respective views? How could each cite different numbers from the same report? So I decided to read the report in question to verify things for myself.

What I found was that both sides misrepresented the CDC data and did so in there respective favors. I came to the realization that it sucks when you find out that the organization that champions pro gun views, a group I would consider to be the good guys, is no more trustworthy than the organizations that champion anti gun views.

 

[Houndawg]

Nothing in the original 2A had anything about how well equipped or prepared the militia is/should be.

What do you think "well regulated" means?

 

[Pilgrim]

FOGRAPTBHSO?

Please translate.

Pilgrim

 

[Fred Fuller]

Well, the folks who are in their state's State Defense Force/ State Guard are in militias...

http://www.sgaus.org/

Alabama State Defense Force
Alaska State Defense Force
California State Military Reserve
Colorado State Defense Force
Georgia State Defense Force
Indiana Guard Reserve
Maryland State Defense Force
Massachusetts Volunteer Militia
Mississippi State Guard
New Jersey Naval Militia
New Mexico State Defense Force
New York State Guard
North Carolina State Guard Assn
Ohio Military Reserve
Oregon State Defense Force
South Carolina State Guard
Tennessee State Guard
Texas State Guard
Virginia Defense Force
Vermont State Guard
Washington State Guard

 

[Art Eatman]

Double Naught Spy, humor me for a moment: What do you think was the intended purpose of the Bill of Rights?

Now, my own belief is that the purpose was fully explained in the Preamble to the BOR. It states specifically that the purpose is to prevent abuse of power by the State. That's written on the reproduction copy on the wall of the post office in Thomasville, Georgia, as well as in my little "Citizen's Rule Book".

"The conventions of a number of the States having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrctive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best insure the beneficient ends of its institution."

I thus believe that something which is a restraint upon the powers of the State CANNOT also be something which is in any way a restriction upon The People.

Is my logic chain incorrect?

, Art

 

[El Tejon]

Any Hoosier THR member, male or female, over 17 is in a militia. State constitution defines the militia as all persons 17 and over.

Stand ready, boys. Bears, pumas, magic unicorns are all about us!

 

[skidmark]

whut you say???

FOGRAPTBHSO?

Please translate.

Me too.

stay safe.

skidmark

 

[dolanp]

Actually I think this is how they justify the Selective Service System.

 

[newman32]

What about the folks over 45? Do they become X-militia or something stripped of their militia status?

 

[Stevie-Ray]

What about the folks over 45? Do they become X-militia or something stripped of their militia status?

Yes, I'm concerned now. Maybe we automatically become Generals.

 

[Nehemiah Scudder]

And I thought any discussion of the draft was only a "Lefty" thing.

 

[rock jock]

For all those members of, ahem....MILITIAS. can you explain to me what exactly the purpose of your group is?

 

[2nd Amendment]

For most these days it's primarily an organizational framework. Knowing and associating with people with similar views, having a place to go if things fall apart, trading news and info and often skills. I learned a lot about surviving off the land, pretty much all I do know in fact, off old timers in the ICVM a decade ago. Most of those guys have passed on now and if not for the militia I'd have never had the privilege of knowing them or learning from them.

And in the end if the SHTF hopefully the militia will exist as an initial structure for those who want to do more than sit at home and hope the government saves them. Whether it'll work out that way is anybody's guess.

 

[R.H. Lee]

FOGRAPTBHSO scenarios

C'mon DMF, cough it up. Izzat sumkinda gubmint speak?

 

[DMF]

FOGRAPTBHSO = Fat Old Guys Roaming Around Pretending To Be High Speed Operators.

To be fair that was my term, he kept talking about "extreme emergencies," "disasters," and when "the SHTF." I just thought it was funny they were going to watch Red Dawn, and the Stand as a basis for serious "training films." I had a very hard time keeping a straight face.

Maybe there are some fine "militia" groups out there, and I admit my experience has been limited to their "recruiting" at a few gun shows, but the times I've come across them they've been some serious "strange rangers."