Who Is Teaching These People That This Behavior Is Acceptable?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Trunk Monkey, Feb 6, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2011
    Messages:
    4,120
    Location:
    Colorado
    I hear a lot on other forums that most cops aren't what we would call "gun guys" and I'm beginning to think a whole bunch of concealed carriers aren't either.

    I watched a COP walking around at work the other day and every couple minutes he'd half draw his weapon. At one point he half drew the weapon while making a comment about popping a patient in the head. I looked at the cop while he was doing it and said "Things aren't THAT bad are they?" I got the "You're a "Gosh darn" security guard. Don't talk to me." Look that I am all too familiar with and shut up.

    When I worked as an armed guard the idiots would sit in the briefing room and joke about shooting each other. I seem to remember one dumb ass actually drawing his weapon while joking about shooting a co-worker My understanding of my employer's policy is that drawing your weapon like that is a termination offense but the guys that did it were all second level supervisors and no one was going to listen to me.

    This morning I was working at the information desk at church. I'm doing my job and I hear two guys right in front of the desk talking about who can draw the fastest. The one guy tells the other that he'd be behind the curve because he'd have to untuck his shirt before drawing. I looked at the guy's belt line and sure enough he was wearing a super tuck. Then the first guy sweeps back his jacket and fully exposes his weapon in the lobby of the church!?!?!?. Seriously? Who does that?

    Even though no one specifically told me that pretending you're going to draw on someone wasn't appropriate behavior but there is SOME level of common sense because no one ever HAD to tell me that either. When I'm carrying a gun I don't play, with it, I don't fiddle with it, I try to act like it's not there. I CERTAINLY don't use it as a toy.

    I'm really beginning to wonder is this common behavior in the gun owning community? Is this how people really act? Who the Hell is teaching these people to carry a gun?
     
    Merle1 likes this.
  2. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2004
    Messages:
    7,776
    Location:
    Back on Puget Sound
    Yeah, it's way too common. Yes, and, no one.

    And it explains why I have distanced myself from the internet gun forums the past couple years; just getting tired of hearing about how the average gun-forum member is a much better marksman and much more of a "gun person" than the average cop. At least those in law enforcement are forced to go through training two or three or four times a year and become re-acquainted with the Four Rules (among other things) as well as actually having to demonstrate that they can still manage a qualifying score on a handgun course (no matter how pathetically easy the course seems to all the internet commandos).
     
    1stmarine, Twiki357 and JeffG like this.
  3. herkyguy

    herkyguy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2009
    Messages:
    1,407
    Concealed means concealed. I don't talk openly at work about what i carry or when, but plenty of folks do get rather loud proclaiming all kinds of things. I don't post anything firearms related on social media for the same reason. I even hesitated a bit to 'like' the pages of some gun clubs I frequent because other people can see that stuff.

    In my humble opinion, one is much better off taking pride in the fact that no one has the slightest idea one is armed and ready.
     
  4. HoosierQ

    HoosierQ Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2008
    Messages:
    2,571
    Location:
    Central Indiana.
    This is why we can't have nice things.
     
    Akita1, shirojiro, easy and 2 others like this.
  5. drband

    drband Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    2,557
    Location:
    GA
    ^^^This^^^
    As to the OP's question: no one is teaching these folks to expose their EDC, brandish, violate the 4 rules, etc...
    It shows a lack of maturity, or even worse, a lack of concern for the responsibility of carrying a deadly weapon. Many reasons, some societal, some stem from computer gaming, some from a need to impress or bully.
    It is a severe problem.
     
    Akita1, Coyote3855 and threefeathers like this.
  6. huntsman

    huntsman Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2003
    Messages:
    4,657
    Location:
    ohio's northcoast
    The world is full of pinheads and some carry guns.
     
  7. drband

    drband Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    2,557
    Location:
    GA
    I should have said it that way!:cool:
     
  8. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    20,356
    I don't even volunteer that I *own* a gun unless the other person first says they do.
     
    RolandD likes this.
  9. Ryanxia

    Ryanxia Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2010
    Messages:
    4,591
    Location:
    'MURICA!
    I see your location is 'Occupied Territory', could it be that in areas with restricted firearm access, the people who jump through the hoops and start carrying just don't have that lifelong experience around firearms that they do stupid things? I hear stories on here all the time about stuff like that, but being around guns and armed people every day I've never seen anything like this in Maine. Maybe its because we grow up around firearms coupled with the fact that New Englanders are pretty uptight lol, I don't know. (Edit: Don't get me wrong, stupid people are everywhere, I just never see it to this degree first hand.)

    Myself and other Church members carry every Sunday and none of us would think of exposing in Church. However guns are pretty common here so we've definitely done some parking lot deals after service. :)

    Politely reminding anyone that puts their hand on the grip of their gun without cause when interacting with others that it's a good way to get shot might make them consider the consequences of screwing around.
     
    bearcreek, horsey300 and .308 Norma like this.
  10. GAF

    GAF Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,107
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Those people who act like that are accidents waiting to happen.
     
    easy and everydefense like this.
  11. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    34,962
    Location:
    Central PA
    Did you ever see the movie Grosse Point Blank? Great, darkly funny, film about the difficulties of maintaining positive interpersonal relationships when you're a hit man. But I bring it up because the writers actually incorporated "that guy" into the script as a minor character.

    He's a rather goofy acquaintance of the main character (Martin, played by John Cusak) who's managed to land a job as a roving security guard for a gated community, and one of his treasured job perks is that he gets to carry a gun -- which he excitedly draws (awkwardly, like it's a dead fish he's got in his pocket) to impress Martin, and awe him with his status and authority.

    Martin, who actually does carry a gun at all times for serious professional reasons, is shown as vaguely shocked, alarmed, and a little bemused, by his old friend's newby-ish, over-excited antics, without ever letting on that he knows which end of that gun the bullets come out of.

    I remember being amazed at how RIGHT the director and actors got the whole scene. The look on Martin's face, and the kind of helpless half-cringe, half laugh he gives as his pal acts like a spastic goober barely in control of a deadly weapon is just so painfully familiar.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2017
    bearcreek, horsey300 and chicharrones like this.
  12. entropy

    entropy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    12,656
    Location:
    G_d's Country, WI
    They used to have a psychological exam for police officers to weed out such types......sadly, as you already know, Trunk Monkey, those that failed tended to go into security jobs. They must have altered or eliminated the psych tests, probably because someone whined that they 'violated their civil rights"...o_O
     
    horsey300 likes this.
  13. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2011
    Messages:
    4,120
    Location:
    Colorado
    You need to read the OP again. The very first example was a cop who was walking around a mental ward with the retention devices disabled on his holster, playing with his gun and talking about busting a cap on a psychotic patient.
     
  14. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    34,962
    Location:
    Central PA
    No. Behaviors that fall into this general category are common enough in ALL of society, but no more so among gun owners. Call it masculine display, lower tier social hierarchy posturing, and acting without thinking.

    Sure. Dudes shadow-box, throwing a few fake punches at their buddies, roughhouse, tease, engage in horseplay. It's juvenile, and often abandoned as men grow up into responsible adults, but holds on for a long time among some members of society. Especially those who really peaked during the part of life where such displays were more expected.

    Nobody, or "the system" if they were forced through a training regimen of some kind. They don't have the experience of grave mistakes nor the imagination to grasp the bigger picture of how close they are to dramatic failure, and what that could mean. In other words, they're just idiots.

    Now, we may want to caution against over-sensitivity in the first case. Two guys who know each other and know the other's habits of carrying firearms, and who are probably even shooting buddies, don't commit a faus pas by discussing gear and tactics as small talk, or even one of them showing something to the other, as long as they aren't making other people uncomfortable or drawing unnecessary attention to themselves.

    However, exposing a firearm, deliberately, in a social setting like a church isn't very professional and could cause parishioners and the staff grief -- all of which simply detracts from the church's purpose and mission. So, they should avoid being a stumbling block to others, and keep their gear stowed and covered if that's what the situation calls for. Some context is required, here though. If this took place in a deserted vestibule where nobody (or just you) was able to observe, maybe I don't see a fault committed. If there were families and members walking through and able to see these dudes clowning around, that's unacceptable behavior.


    And, don't forget, YOU are a full fledged person, just like they are. YOU have the authority to speak to them. To greet them, introduce yourself, and then politely express that you feel their actions aren't appropriate for that location. They aren't going to shoot you for that. By their actions and their location, they clearly think that they're the "good guys" just as you are, and while they might chafe a little under peer scrutiny, they DO know better and could hardly present a serious protest.

    For what its worth, the police are not above such comment as well. The cop in your first example is absolutely open to being politely confronted by you, the citizen. "Hi officer! Sorry to interrupt you, but watching you play with your gun like that here in public is making me uncomfortable. It's dangerous and unprofessional. Please don't do that." He probably wouldn't even have an answer, but again, he can't shoot you or arrest you for expressing yourself, and you certainly would make an impression. He might even straighten up and fly right...er, considering how embarrassing it is to be called out by a citizen for acting like an ass in a completely indefensible way.

    And, of course, a note (or cellphone video if lawful) sent to his superior expressing your dismay at his unprofessional behavior might be just what's needed to get discipline kicked into gear. Chances are if he acts like that in front of you, other officers have noticed his idiocy as well.
     
    Trunk Monkey and bearcreek like this.
  15. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2011
    Messages:
    4,120
    Location:
    Colorado
    Sunday morning after first service, before second (About as crowded as the lobby of the church gets.


    I reported it to the security detail. They sent 3 guys to check it out, they observed the two for a couple of minutes and decided they weren't doing anything overtly threatening. The head of the security team knows the guy that was flashing his weapon and is going to speak to him about it.


    I did say something to the cop and he made it quite clear that he wasn't going to be corrected by a mere security guard
     
  16. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    34,962
    Location:
    Central PA
    Pretty poor, then.

    And I'm sure they weren't by that time.

    Good. That might do some actual good.

    Ahh, yes, your position as a security guard does bring into play some social status posturing that is probably unavoidable, especially with the sort of guy who'd be doing that to begin with.

    For what it's worth, you very well may have STILL made an impact. Even if he played the monkey-with-a-bigger-badge dominance card to your face, he was still embarrassed to be caught doing something asinine.

    At the next instance, an official complaint to his supervisor would be required.
     
  17. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2011
    Messages:
    4,120
    Location:
    Colorado
    Not sure he was trying to show me he had a bigger badge but I get your point
     
    old lady new shooter likes this.
  18. Nickotym

    Nickotym Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Messages:
    743
    Location:
    Virginia
    I was reading on another forum about allowing semi-auto rilfes in PA. One of the commenters had been in the Army and knew all about guns and didn't see the need for commoners to be able to use these guns for hunting. I have the greatest respect for that Vet's service, but her opinion showed she was very elitist. Sadly we have those types in our fine community as well.
     
  19. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    34,962
    Location:
    Central PA
    I think you may have cross-posted this in the wrong thread?

    What did you mean this in reply to? o_O
     
    bearcreek likes this.
  20. Sunray

    Sunray Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2003
    Messages:
    11,573
    Location:
    London, Ont.
    Cops are good people for the most part. However, these days, they're hired more for their degree, not their other skills. And they are the absolute worst firearms users. They get away with doing stuff that'd get anybody else thrown in jail. Few years back a local cop was running through a residential neighbourhood, gun in hand, discharging the thing in every direction. He said he was chasing somebody. That being no reason to have his pistol even out of the holster. Anyway, one shot went through a window or an external house wall and hit the inner wall over a crib. Fortunately it was empty at the time. Other shots hit garages, went through windows and otherwise caused property damage. Multiple criminal offences(indictable offence, Stateside.). Never did hear what happened to the guy. Screamed locker/briefing room bet to me.
    Even the SWAT types have been known to play 'Quick draw' in the locker/briefing rooms or during lulls in training. Other cops have been shot by their peers doing that, up here. Forget how badly hurt the guy was.
     
  21. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2009
    Messages:
    8,812
    Location:
    Central Arkansas
    Sam said it pretty well in post 14. There are stupid people everywhere and gun owners are not exempt.
    There are no more among us than non-gun owners. There may even be a bit less, but they are no doubt among us.

    It's immature behavior that most of us grow out of by the time we're out of our teens.
     
  22. threefeathers

    threefeathers member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2003
    Messages:
    1,211
    Location:
    AZ
    This hits it head on.
     
  23. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    60,802
    Location:
    0 hrs east of TN
    Most people with permits never carry. Of those that do they don't do it enough to become comfortable with it. The rest mostly don't read forums, seek advice and even fewer seek any training to develop competence.

    Thanks heavens it doesn't cause any statistically measurable problems (which is reflected in the immeasurably small rates of accidental shooting by permit holders).
     
    bearcreek likes this.
  24. strambo

    strambo Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,961
    Location:
    Oregon
    Those are all idiots. I can't disagree (with criticism of) with any example you posted. I'm not "black and white" though with a no touching the gun ever while carrying personal policy.

    The most important part of the draw stroke is acquiring the firing grip. When home (or in any non-public environment), sometimes I'll practice just getting a grip on the gun for extra reps. I don't move it at all so it stays 100% in the holster at all times. I would never do that in public or around anyone other than a fellow military co-worker (or LE, if I was LE, but I'm not). I wouldn't be joking with anyone and I wouldn't be doing it in a manner where anyone would think I was actually drawing my gun.
     
  25. Squire Western

    Squire Western member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2016
    Messages:
    152
    Location:
    Garden Hills, Florida
    From past posts we see that "Occupied Territory" is Colorado Springs, Colorado, certainly not unfriendly to our gun rights.

    The OP makes many salient points on the POV of the beholder. Good thread starter.
     
    Ryanxia and Trunk Monkey like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice