benzuncle
Member
My first carry piece was a NAA Guardian 380. I still carry it when the slacks I wear don't allow me to hide one of my 45's or 357SIG pieces. It is my Sunday-go-to-church piece also.
Who likes 380 ACP? Anyone like it as a primary?
- Thread starter southriseagain
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Two part question
Three part answer.
1) Do I like the 380- Yes I do.
2) Do I like it for primary carry- No I don't
3) While I don't like it for primary carry I will occassionaly carry just my LCP. I much prefer my G23 on my right hip with the LCP in my left front pocket. It is always there. Hey it beats a sharp stick in the eye.
As for your other questions:
1) What will the 9mm do that the 380 won't? It will will penetrate deeper and cause more damage. It will also cost you less at the check out.
2) Where did all the ammo go? I have a different take on this than a lot of people, I think. If you have spent any time in places like Cabellas over the last 9 months or so, you will realize that a lot of people were buying lots of guns. A lot of these people were new to owning any guns and, a lot of them wanted something that wouldn't kick a lot. I saw lots of Bersas, Kel-tecs and, LCP's flying off the shelves. That was the first part of the problem. The second part of the problem is that there are several good, relatively new guns out there chambered in 380 like the ones already mention. The 380 had languished over the past 10 or 20 years so manufacturers weren't producing a lot of it. Part three is that everyone was hording ammo. Part four is that components for ammo are also in high demand. Up until recently at least, manufatures probably sold 10 boxes of 9mm ammo to every box of 380 that they produced, so the bullets and the primers were used in the production of 9mm rather than 380.
3) Will it come back? Yes, I believe it will. As the demand for 9mm and other ammo levels out I would be willing to bet that manufacturers will refocus there attention on the production of 380 ammo? Why wouldn't they? The demand is obviously up due to the reasons allready mentioned and, they can charge more for it than 9mm, while there costs are the same or slightly less.
Three part answer.
1) Do I like the 380- Yes I do.
2) Do I like it for primary carry- No I don't
3) While I don't like it for primary carry I will occassionaly carry just my LCP. I much prefer my G23 on my right hip with the LCP in my left front pocket. It is always there. Hey it beats a sharp stick in the eye.
As for your other questions:
1) What will the 9mm do that the 380 won't? It will will penetrate deeper and cause more damage. It will also cost you less at the check out.
2) Where did all the ammo go? I have a different take on this than a lot of people, I think. If you have spent any time in places like Cabellas over the last 9 months or so, you will realize that a lot of people were buying lots of guns. A lot of these people were new to owning any guns and, a lot of them wanted something that wouldn't kick a lot. I saw lots of Bersas, Kel-tecs and, LCP's flying off the shelves. That was the first part of the problem. The second part of the problem is that there are several good, relatively new guns out there chambered in 380 like the ones already mention. The 380 had languished over the past 10 or 20 years so manufacturers weren't producing a lot of it. Part three is that everyone was hording ammo. Part four is that components for ammo are also in high demand. Up until recently at least, manufatures probably sold 10 boxes of 9mm ammo to every box of 380 that they produced, so the bullets and the primers were used in the production of 9mm rather than 380.
3) Will it come back? Yes, I believe it will. As the demand for 9mm and other ammo levels out I would be willing to bet that manufacturers will refocus there attention on the production of 380 ammo? Why wouldn't they? The demand is obviously up due to the reasons allready mentioned and, they can charge more for it than 9mm, while there costs are the same or slightly less.
PX15
Member
MIkeBoyd:
How reliable and accurate is the LWS380?
Ok, here ya' go.
All Seecamps are designed strictly as close up and personal self defense weapons. They have NO external sights, by design, and I think most of us agree that the Seecamp pistol is one "carried a lot, shot a little"..
Seecamps, ONCE you find the fodder it prefers is absolutely reliable, or certainly as reliable as anything made by man can be. I trust mine with my life and carry it daily.
As of 7/23/09 the "recommended" ammo for the LWS380 is: Hydrashock jhp, or Silvertip jhp. Not saying other jhp ammo won't work just fine, but these are the two rounds Larry has tested sufficiently and found has the least variance in tolerances from box to box. Having said that I use Speer Gold Dots in both my LWS32 and LWS380 and "so far" have experienced 100% reliability.
The shortage of 32, and particularly 380 cal ammo right now is actually affecting Larry's ability to sufficiently test each pistol prior releasing them to his customers, and he will not sell a gun until he has tested it to insure proper functioning.
As to the accuracy of the LWS380?
Well, I only practice with my Seecamps from 3 yards, often less. I use a point and shoot technique and the target below shows the results of the first mag fired thru my LWS380 from that distance.
When I practice with my larger caliber firearms my personal self defense distance is from 7 yards or less.. I'm not an expert marksman, and I'm of the opinion that at further than 7 yards I have an opportunity to turn tail and head for the woods as a preference to shooting someone.
I've had NAA Guardians/KelTecs/Beretta's and found the NAA/KT pistols to be very, very good. The difference between the Seecamp pistol and the others, IN MY OPINION, lies in the absolute top quality of the Seecamps when compared to the others.
I don't say you have a better concealed carry choice in a Seecamp vs a Guardian or KelTec. I just say you have a higher quality firearm in construction and materials (IMO), and in the Seecamp you have a top quality firearm you will want to "pass down" to your heirs...
I'm of the opinion that Seecamp pistols are the best of the best, and that's why I have two, and my wife has one..
Nothing wrong with the others, just personal preference..
To sum it up, IMO, and in my experience Seecamp pistols will do the job, both in reliability and accuracy if the shooter will do his/hers by choosing his/her ammo properly and practicing sufficiently to become proficient with his/her Seecamp pistol. Once a person has confidence in both his/her Seecamps reliability and his/her own competence in shooting the weapon I believe there is no finer mousegun choice than a Seecamp, be it the LWS32 or LWS380.
Hope this helps.
Best Wishes,
How reliable and accurate is the LWS380?
Ok, here ya' go.
All Seecamps are designed strictly as close up and personal self defense weapons. They have NO external sights, by design, and I think most of us agree that the Seecamp pistol is one "carried a lot, shot a little"..
Seecamps, ONCE you find the fodder it prefers is absolutely reliable, or certainly as reliable as anything made by man can be. I trust mine with my life and carry it daily.
As of 7/23/09 the "recommended" ammo for the LWS380 is: Hydrashock jhp, or Silvertip jhp. Not saying other jhp ammo won't work just fine, but these are the two rounds Larry has tested sufficiently and found has the least variance in tolerances from box to box. Having said that I use Speer Gold Dots in both my LWS32 and LWS380 and "so far" have experienced 100% reliability.
The shortage of 32, and particularly 380 cal ammo right now is actually affecting Larry's ability to sufficiently test each pistol prior releasing them to his customers, and he will not sell a gun until he has tested it to insure proper functioning.
As to the accuracy of the LWS380?
Well, I only practice with my Seecamps from 3 yards, often less. I use a point and shoot technique and the target below shows the results of the first mag fired thru my LWS380 from that distance.
When I practice with my larger caliber firearms my personal self defense distance is from 7 yards or less.. I'm not an expert marksman, and I'm of the opinion that at further than 7 yards I have an opportunity to turn tail and head for the woods as a preference to shooting someone.
I've had NAA Guardians/KelTecs/Beretta's and found the NAA/KT pistols to be very, very good. The difference between the Seecamp pistol and the others, IN MY OPINION, lies in the absolute top quality of the Seecamps when compared to the others.
I don't say you have a better concealed carry choice in a Seecamp vs a Guardian or KelTec. I just say you have a higher quality firearm in construction and materials (IMO), and in the Seecamp you have a top quality firearm you will want to "pass down" to your heirs...
I'm of the opinion that Seecamp pistols are the best of the best, and that's why I have two, and my wife has one..
Nothing wrong with the others, just personal preference..
To sum it up, IMO, and in my experience Seecamp pistols will do the job, both in reliability and accuracy if the shooter will do his/hers by choosing his/her ammo properly and practicing sufficiently to become proficient with his/her Seecamp pistol. Once a person has confidence in both his/her Seecamps reliability and his/her own competence in shooting the weapon I believe there is no finer mousegun choice than a Seecamp, be it the LWS32 or LWS380.
Hope this helps.
Best Wishes,
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searcher451
Member
I've carried a Walther PPK/S in .380 ACP for years and have never felt like I wasn't properly protected. It's a solid round with a solid track record, IMO. The trick these days is in finding ammo to run through a .380. I've found one box of Remington ball, 50-round box, since December, and that's it. It's a good thing I had a decent supply, but that is currently running lower than I'd like.
WRGADog
Member
I routinely carry one of three guns
The gun I choose is dependent on where I am going and clothing. The three guns are:
1. S&W 340PD, 357 mag. Great gun weight wise, caliber, and easy to conceal, but absolutely brutal to shoot.
2. Kahr PM9, easy to conceal, good weight, accurate, minimal recoil
3. Kahr P380, tiny gun, very light weight, very little recoil, accurate, and superb concealability. I love this gun and carry it often.
I give the edge to the PM9, based upon caliber alone, but I am completely comfortable and confident in the P380.
The gun I choose is dependent on where I am going and clothing. The three guns are:
1. S&W 340PD, 357 mag. Great gun weight wise, caliber, and easy to conceal, but absolutely brutal to shoot.
2. Kahr PM9, easy to conceal, good weight, accurate, minimal recoil
3. Kahr P380, tiny gun, very light weight, very little recoil, accurate, and superb concealability. I love this gun and carry it often.
I give the edge to the PM9, based upon caliber alone, but I am completely comfortable and confident in the P380.
bigfatdave
Member
I agree, conwict, KegCommando summed the answer to Q#2 up nicely.
To be serious, the barrel of anything identifiable as a gun is pretty impressive when viewed from the wrong end. Even a little .22 pocket gun can be a deterrent ... but it still isn't the best option.
southriseagain, what have you actually shot? What have you actually attempted to conceal? You would be surprised what can hide under slacks/jeans and an informal buttoned shirt. Add in how little attention people are actually paying to your beltline, and you can CC even a duty-size 9mm IWB. Perhaps you would save a lot of time and trouble if you took a try with a merely compact pistol, rather than insisting on a lilliputian pocket pistol.
southriseagain
Member
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2009
- Messages
- 12
i've shot 357 38 9mm 40 45 (not including rifles and shotguns)
i've carried 357 40 9mm and 45 (not in public, just woods)
i've concealed carried... car keys and chewing gum
from what ive read and been able to see on the online (havent seen one in person yet) i think i might like the cz 2075 in 9mm.
problem is i made the mistake of picking up a sig p232 and cant get it out of my mind... its like a walther pp only a little more butch and modern (it really should have been a 9mm), probably the best looking/most ergonomic firearm i've had my mitts on.
Since 380 is new to me i'm a little concerned about getting a new caliber based on the platform as opposed to the other way around (i.e. wanting a 357 and getting a smith vs wanting a p232 and ending up with a 380)
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bigfatdave
Member
southriseagain, you can CC a lot of gun if you are willing to go beyond pocket carry. Not to knock pocket carry, other than purse-guns, there aren't a lot of options that allow you to have your hand on the grip ready to draw whenever you want, and not draw attention. (side note to self ... invent mitten-carry, and market mitten/gun set to public!)
Personally I went with a PPS-9 thinking of the possibility of pocket carry, but beyond trying it out at home I've felt no need to bother. IWB is less hassle, faster to draw (and I have BIG pockets) if starting with hands at my sides. What works for me might not work for you, but if you insist on a pocket-sized gun, you will get pocket-sized performance.
Personally I went with a PPS-9 thinking of the possibility of pocket carry, but beyond trying it out at home I've felt no need to bother. IWB is less hassle, faster to draw (and I have BIG pockets) if starting with hands at my sides. What works for me might not work for you, but if you insist on a pocket-sized gun, you will get pocket-sized performance.
I think you should really give some honest thought to changing your wardrobe, and//or giving an honest try to bigger guns. I carry an "ugly" 9mm (Keltec p11) just fine; in fact the premise of the thread seems somewhat flawed, if you are rejecting a carry gun based on appearance.
9mm do that a 380 won't? Wellll, typically, with the same shootability, cheaper cost, and same recoil, it offers more power and a better chance of ending a lethal force situation when used properly.
I'm 6'/195, athletic, and can carry my 9mm with NO HOLSTER OR BELT in friggen gym shorts and a tank top with a belt clip. I just see no need to switch to a smaller gun.
As for 2 guns being overkill, I would definitely carry another P11 if I had it, and if the outfit allowed. Much more efficient than a reload, and if you need one gun you probably need two. Sure, chances are low that you need one gun, but if a situation is that bad the extra assurance of a second gun is probably worth it.
One thing we tend to overlook in these discussions is the launching platform. Now you give me a .380 with a 4 to 6 inch barrel, and I wouldn't consider the round to be anemic. But in the teeny tiny guns we usually see available for .380s, some of which I own and carry, a 380 isn't exactly howitzer-esque.
huntsman
Member
Since I only own 2 centerfire handguns and both are .380 I guess one would be "A Primary" and the other is a secondary.
But both are secondary to my shotguns and rifle
I own two .380 handguns an AMT backup S.A. And a Colt mustang. Normally my carry weapon is a Colt compact .45. But due to the heat in summer here in AZ my mustang is often the gun in my pocket (during summer). No I don't feel "undergunned" with a .380. That said I still prefer a larger weapon for pure control reasons.
zombienerd
Member
I use my Bersa Thunder .380 as my primary carry gun. It is small enough to fit in a pocket, or comfortably IWB.
The 380 has a proven track record of being "just enough" for self defense. I don't feel undergunned carrying my 7+1 and an extra mag with my Bersa.
That being said, I also have a "fullsize" 9MM that I open carry on occasion, but the 380 is what I use for EDC.
The 380 has a proven track record of being "just enough" for self defense. I don't feel undergunned carrying my 7+1 and an extra mag with my Bersa.
That being said, I also have a "fullsize" 9MM that I open carry on occasion, but the 380 is what I use for EDC.
1858rem
Member
so how about .380 vs 9mm mak in a nice east german makarov?
whats .380's advantage to 9 mak?
whats .380's advantage to 9 mak?
1858rem
Member
do you really mean 7 FEET? i was thinking yards maybe.
DrLaw
Member
Mauser HSc
In a land far, far away, and a time long, long ago, I used to carry a Mauser HSc in .380 (Interarms import) as an off-duty gun and never felt undergunned with it. Today, I would feel undergunned in view of the number of bad guys that are out there with bigger things, but then, never a worry.
I also never had to use it.
Fortunately, I live in Illinois, one of the two non-concealed carry states left in the US. I know I am safe because my State Police don't want anybody in the state to have a concealed carry gun, and I know the criminals NEVER EVER have guns, because they are not supposed to. :banghead:
(friggen corrupt Illinois politicians)
However, if you feel comfortable with a .380, go with it. Remember, it is your preference to use what you feel good using. If you are confident, you'll be happy.
The Doc is out now.
In a land far, far away, and a time long, long ago, I used to carry a Mauser HSc in .380 (Interarms import) as an off-duty gun and never felt undergunned with it. Today, I would feel undergunned in view of the number of bad guys that are out there with bigger things, but then, never a worry.
I also never had to use it.
Fortunately, I live in Illinois, one of the two non-concealed carry states left in the US. I know I am safe because my State Police don't want anybody in the state to have a concealed carry gun, and I know the criminals NEVER EVER have guns, because they are not supposed to. :banghead:
(friggen corrupt Illinois politicians)However, if you feel comfortable with a .380, go with it. Remember, it is your preference to use what you feel good using. If you are confident, you'll be happy.
The Doc is out now.
I have a Browning BDA in .380 it was my primary carry for years, love the gun and would never part with it. With the double stacked mag it will carry 13 rds and I've never felt undergunned. I recently purchased a S&W compact M&P 40 and now rotate between the two.
southriseagain
Member
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2009
- Messages
- 12
with all do respect, no way. I own my guns, they dont own me.
Dude, you can lose 10 pounds or go to a tailor for alterations, and carry a much better gun choice, rather than choosing your gun based on your wardrobe. The lose 10 lbs thing isn't meant as a dig on you, I don't know you. I just mean that you are obviously serious about carrying and defending, so why not do it with the most effective tool possible? This is like choosing a 4WD because of a rough spot in your driveway. Is it easier to fix the rough spot or get the car that would suit your general purpose better?
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